The Josh Harris/HOG Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

We've wandered into the name debate again. I'll keep coming back to I think the most obvious answer is the money. The brand sold. They made a lot of money on the brand because the team was winning. Daniels had the #1 selling jersey, and other merch is selling well. I saw Commanders merch on the cruise I took in Alaska for Pete's sake. I see at the grocery store, I see it when I go for runs, I see it all over the place in a much more meaningful way than I saw Redskins gear for the last 10 years because the team stunk and Synder was an ass. It's all over the place now.

If the brand is selling, then purely from a dollars and cents perspective, what's the net benefit for changing the brand? If the team had the year it did and the brand didn't sell, then that's a tangible reason to change the name. But enough people either like or tolerate or are getting use to the name to make the cost of making another change essentially not have any return on investment, because of the current sales.

And Harris knew he was going to have to pony up $2+ billy for a new stadium, plus other upgrades to the existing stadium + upgrades to the facility. If that's all the case plus the fact the brand is selling and generating revenue, I think it's just a cold hard dollars and cents decision: the return on investment isn't there. Why spend $20+ million dollars to satisfy the fan base when enough of them have moved on and are just buying Commanders gear and dealing with the brand.

I don't love the name. And I hate the uniforms. I wish they would have changed all of it. However, I don't know what would be better. I despise Redwolves as an option, probably more than Commanders even. Yeah, that puts me in the minority. But with no obvious new name + cost + ROI, I dunno. The decision might be disappointing, but it isn't surprising.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

No, I dont think it is. We still do it all the time. Its even done by the government on a regular basis.
But anyway, without getting too far into that, I'll always think we could have done better, and Harris chose not to.

If Snyder hadn't gotten into a pissing match with Fred Smith we would still have the name.

THAT is the reason the name is gone. It's important to remember that. It's ALL Snyder's fault. He basically stole money from his partners, and Fred Smith had it, and yanked the sponsorship of FedEx (since he was the CEO and Founder, he could do that with ease), and that was the end of the debate. As soon as Fred Smith, who's company had the naming rights of the stadium, came out against the name because he was pissed off at Snyder, the name was going to change.

If the Snyder ownership group was united, and not fighting with each other and without Fred Smith weaponizing it against Snyder, we'd still be the Redskins.

 

[Spearfeather]

Snyder hadn't gotten into a pissing match with Fred Smith we would still have the name...

As soon as Fred Smith, who's company had the naming rights of the stadium, came out against the name because he was pissed off at Snyder ...

I mean, yeah, and I wasn't disagreeing with any of that.

 

[tomwvr]

Every skin fan should never do anything with fed ex

 

[HTTR]

They probably nixed going back to Redskins, but I really don’t think the NFL is stopping them from ditching Commanders for a new name. Seems like blaming the NFL is a convenient way to take him off the hook. But I see no evidence of that. I mean, if it really was the case, why keep it secret? And why then did it take an extra year to decide?
Snyder totally deserves the bulk of the blame of course as others have mentioned, but to me it’s fair to criticize Harris. He’s handled it poorly. He dropped the ball by not addressing it immediately and tried to pooh-pooh it as an unimportant issue that could wait which was quite off-putting to many. So then, after a full season with new players and a new coaching staff, it predictably became a lot more difficult both logistically and financially. Plus the winning.
So I get why at this point he’s deciding not to do it, but I don’t believe his hands are/were tied to the point where he he had no choice. I think he just underestimated the urgency of the matter. Don’t get me wrong, I still like Harris a lot and I’d much rather have a good team with a crappy name than the opposite. Just sucks because we could’ve had both. And I don’t care what new fans who have jumped aboard or come back because we are a winner now think about it, but Harris should and does so here we are. Did we get an edge rusher yet???

 

[AngryChuckT]

We've wandered into the name debate again. I'll keep coming back to I think the most obvious answer is the money. The brand sold. They made a lot of money on the brand because the team was winning. Daniels had the #1 selling jersey, and other merch is selling well. I saw Commanders merch on the cruise I took in Alaska for Pete's sake. I see at the grocery store, I see it when I go for runs, I see it all over the place in a much more meaningful way than I saw Redskins gear for the last 10 years because the team stunk and Synder was an ass. It's all over the place now.

If the brand is selling, then purely from a dollars and cents perspective, what's the net benefit for changing the brand? If the team had the year it did and the brand didn't sell, then that's a tangible reason to change the name. But enough people either like or tolerate or are getting use to the name to make the cost of making another change essentially not have any return on investment, because of the current sales.

And Harris knew he was going to have to pony up $2+ billy for a new stadium, plus other upgrades to the existing stadium + upgrades to the facility. If that's all the case plus the fact the brand is selling and generating revenue, I think it's just a cold hard dollars and cents decision: the return on investment isn't there. Why spend $20+ million dollars to satisfy the fan base when enough of them have moved on and are just buying Commanders gear and dealing with the brand.

I don't love the name. And I hate the uniforms. I wish they would have changed all of it. However, I don't know what would be better. I despise Redwolves as an option, probably more than Commanders even. Yeah, that puts me in the minority. But with no obvious new name + cost + ROI, I dunno. The decision might be disappointing, but it isn't surprising.

I probably went to deep into the name stuff, but I am almost exactly where you are. I can't really find fault with anything with HOG. Honestly, a dream owner so far and almost the exact opposite of the WOISH (Worst Owner in Sports History). No name other than Redskins would completely satisfy me so Commanders is good as any. My only complaint is the uniforms. Abominations except for the Burgundy and they need some tweaking. HOG gets an A. Fix the unis and he gets an A+

 

[Boone]

I don't love the name. And I hate the uniforms. I wish they would have changed all of it. However, I don't know what would be better. I despise Redwolves as an option, probably more than Commanders even. Yeah, that puts me in the minority. But with no obvious new name + cost + ROI, I dunno. The decision might be disappointing, but it isn't surprising.

Threads go where they go.

Wolves is monumentally better. Warriors is monumentally better. Sentinels is monumentally better. Hell - Monuments is monumentally better

It doesn't matter. It's decided and we'll all move on. But I think the question of 'why' the new ownership group ignored what I think is a pretty well established fan priority, there will always be discussion around it. And if it was 'all about the money' as a lot of fans argue, I think that makes it worse, not better.

The sports world is full of stupid names. Islanders. Mets. Padres. Wizards. There are endless examples. We'll get so used to it in 10 years no one will ever talk about it. The older fans like me will die off and the animosity towards the rebrand will die with it. Practically, it's a non-issue. But some fans will always feel it's a fail on the part of the Harris group.

 

[skinzplay]

As far as I'm concerned, the ownership group has done everything right, hence the rapid turnaround of the organization, in all aspects of operation. They said from the outset that the name wasn't a priority and they've tackled the priority issues head on, and effectively. Let's see if the lower priority issues are addressed. I definitely hate the idiotic name and putrid uniforms, but am willing to wait. They didn't announce Commanders Stadium, they announced plans for a new stadium at the RFK site. Let's see what happens.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Every skin fan should never do anything with fed ex

I don’t blame Fred Smith at all.

I blame Snyder entirely.

It reminds me a little bit of the scene in Star Wars A New Hope where the Admiral is telling Darth Vader, and being rather aggressive and snarky, the Force is an ancient religion and not important.

Is it really wise to pick a fight with a 7 foot tall masked space wizard who can kill you with his brain.

Snyder picking a fight with the FedEx founder and CEO was so unimaginably stupid.

And Fred Smith force choked him.

 

[HTTR]

I don’t blame Fred Smith at all.

I blame Snyder entirely.

It reminds me a little bit of the scene in Star Wars A New Hope where the Admiral is telling Darth Vader, and being rather aggressive and snarky, the Force is an ancient religion and not important.

Is it really wise to pick a fight with a 7 foot tall masked space wizard who can kill you with his brain.

Snyder picking a fight with the FedEx founder and CEO was so unimaginably stupid.

And Fred Smith force choked him.

Well, Snyder certainly deserved it, but I wish Fred Smith would have found another way to make his point. We are the ones feeling the collateral damage of his actions.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Well, Snyder certainly deserved it, but I wish Fred Smith would have found another way to make his point. We are the ones feeling the collateral damage of his actions.

Hmmm, yes and no. I don't know if that relationship also fed the absolute conviction that the NFL finally gained to force the sale. I think it absolutely did. If you are making sponsors feel like the "NFL Ownership Group" is going to treat you like garbage... that is also a big line that Snyder was playing with. Snyder may have done some things, donating to some causes, being generous with specific groups/people - I think that happened - but there was a lot of information out there that was very particular about his personality being overall trash. In the end, it caught up with him, but I do think the Fred Smith relationship was a part of it.

I can't fault anything that happened pre-2023, even the name fiasco, if it led to Snyder giving up the team. Who knows, maybe his own connection was severed when the name changed. If so, I can't be mad at losing the name. I will take Harris's Commanders over Snyder's Redskins every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[RedWolf]

Can we please get off the name

 

[Boone]

Can we please get off the name

If it annoys you, you can click out of the thread.

 

[UK Skins]

I'm not piling on Redwolf, but it's highly ironic you moaning, given your user name As VOR said earlier, it would be a worse name than Commanders, and that's saying something!

 

[Boone]

I wasn’t intending to beat on Redwolf - that’s just the way forums work. Lots of things annoy lots of people but we try not to shut down conversations because of it.

 

[Riggo44]

I'm not piling on Redwolf, but it's highly ironic you moaning, given your user name As VOR said earlier, it would be a worse name than Commanders, and that's saying something!

And this is precisely why not changing the name was a smart move by Harris--they are not going to get a consensus. Some will be "whatever they pick is fine--just not Commanders," others will not want to go through another name change process, and most will still whine about not picking their preferred name. It's better to shut it down, move on, and focus on other, unifying aspects--like the new stadium and winning football games.

 

[Anselmheifer]

I honestly can’t believe the name thing is still such a big deal to people. A lot of the discontents weren’t going to be happy unless we went back to redskins or something that veered close to it. And that was never going to happen.

I’m not young, but I feel like it’s mostly a few old heads

If it annoys you, you can click out of the thread.

Isn’t there a name thread though?

I feel like nobody really loves the name, but there are about 2% of the fans, all old heads, and I’m not young either, that just can’t get past it.

We were a game away from the Super Bowl. We have a massively upgraded roster, a top 5 QB, a top 5 GM, a great coaching staff. They’ve dropped money in the old stadium, upgraded the player facilities and are installing a new locker room for this year as we speak. We are going back to RFK. We are hosting the draft.

I feel like we almost couldn’t have done any better if we’d rubbed a Genie’s lamp, and it kind of blows my doors off that people are still so consumed by that.

Which I guess is a long winded way of saying, you’re probably right. Maybe better to stay out of the thread.

 

[Boone]

I think the most salient fact in all of it is, it’s been decided. The lead owner himself has emphatically stated they are going to stick with ‘Commanders’. It’s over and decided. They aren’t going to be the ‘Commanders’ and then 6 years in say ‘oh we’ve got a new stadium so we are renaming the team to _____’ - that’s just not going to happen.

I think there are still unanswered questions about what went on behind the scenes - which is why that convo is 100% appropriate in a thread about Josh Harris’ ownership so far. But as far as the whole debate is concerned - it’s over. We are the Commanders and no amount of angst is going to change that. Get busy living or get busy dying

 

[HTTR]

I can't fault anything that happened pre-2023, even the name fiasco, if it led to Snyder giving up the team. Who knows, maybe his own connection was severed when the name changed. If so, I can't be mad at losing the name. I will take Harris's Commanders over Snyder's Redskins every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Yeah, this is why I’m OK with it all even if I don’t like it. I know I’m not the only one once who said they can name it anything they want if it means getting rid of Snyder! Not sure why it bothers people so much that some of us still want to discuss it. It’s not freaking out, it’s just something to talk about during the off-season while not much is going on. I don’t need to read any more puff pieces on our draft picks.

And just for the record, Redwolves is 1000x better than Commanders. So is Warriors. Not everybody’s going to agree with that I guess, but in the end, the biggest problem with commanders is it came from Snyder himself.

 

[bowhunter]

We've wandered into the name debate again. I'll keep coming back to I think the most obvious answer is the money. The brand sold. They made a lot of money on the brand because the team was winning. Daniels had the #1 selling jersey, and other merch is selling well. I saw Commanders merch on the cruise I took in Alaska for Pete's sake. I see at the grocery store, I see it when I go for runs, I see it all over the place in a much more meaningful way than I saw Redskins gear for the last 10 years because the team stunk and Synder was an ass. It's all over the place now.

If the brand is selling, then purely from a dollars and cents perspective, what's the net benefit for changing the brand? If the team had the year it did and the brand didn't sell, then that's a tangible reason to change the name. But enough people either like or tolerate or are getting use to the name to make the cost of making another change essentially not have any return on investment, because of the current sales.

And Harris knew he was going to have to pony up $2+ billy for a new stadium, plus other upgrades to the existing stadium + upgrades to the facility. If that's all the case plus the fact the brand is selling and generating revenue, I think it's just a cold hard dollars and cents decision: the return on investment isn't there. Why spend $20+ million dollars to satisfy the fan base when enough of them have moved on and are just buying Commanders gear and dealing with the brand.

I don't love the name. And I hate the uniforms. I wish they would have changed all of it. However, I don't know what would be better. I despise Redwolves as an option, probably more than Commanders even. Yeah, that puts me in the minority. But with no obvious new name + cost + ROI, I dunno. The decision might be disappointing, but it isn't surprising.

Knowing that there are a bunch of diehard fans who have not/will not purchased any "C-word" merchandise, citing jersey sales as a part of this argument is a double edged sword. The uptick must be primarily due to performance on the field and most certainly not due to anyones love affair with the new moniker. (Yes, I have based that statement on in-depth discussion with at least 10 other people! lol) This name is not "loved" by anyone, at best it is "tolerated." Would it be a stretch for all of us involved in this debate to at least admit that?

VOR, your dislike for the option of "Red Wolves" suprises me. There are a lot of reasons to like it. It limits the number of syllables to two, so that it rolls of the tongue easily (admit that few team names of 3+ syllables stay intact and don't get shortened.) Keeping the "red" without having any other ties to "Redskins" makes it easy to tweak our historic fight song and even our dictum, so that the new name is easily adapted to and possibly held in the same reverence it deserves. Lastly, the "Red Wolves" name brings a shit ton of positive energy that is unmatched by most of the other name options. The Red Wolf is a living breathing creature with historic ties to the DC region. I mean what other bad ass animals can make that claim? (negative points awarded for anyone screaming "terrapins" or "beavers" (both are valued, but also can have a musk.) The proposed Red Wolf designs I've seen bring that energy and vibe that could make even the sober fans howl. Invigorating a fan base, and even a way to siphon some proceeds to the charitble organization trying to save the endangered species.

Lastly and most importantly, I want you to think back to the last few games of the season where we were fighting for a playoff spot. JD goes into hero mode again and we score a last minute Touchdown to take the lead. The Crowd goes wild and spontaneously erupts into song. In your opinion, how many of them would be singing "Stand erect Monuments" of whatever other cheesy ballad Tuddy tries to lead?