Official Game Thread - Week 13 - vs Dolphins

[Commodes Fan]

Howell is having an amazing first season. All QBs - even the great ones - have bad games over the course of a long season. And obviously guys in their first season as starter are likely too. The kid has a great arm, generally makes good decisions, is mobile, and has a great attitude and work ethic.

I don't want to be unkind - but I think your take is ludicrous.

Howell leads the NFL in sacks, INTs, and pick 6s....including pick 6s in the past 3 games. In fact, he may break the NFL record for sacks because he holds the ball too long.

It's ludicrous that you would call that "amazing".

 

[Boone]

 

[burgold]

The argument being made is really the one I make against Rivera. In year four of the program, you can't lose to the Giants and Bears. You can't have one side of the field that can't communicate. Even more so with a veteran squad and relatively light injuries. For the first half of the year we lost Forrest and maybe Barton. In football terms, that's nothing.

Those losses, more than the losses to the Cowboys and Miami are why I think there's less than a one percent chance that Rivera returns. It's why I was okay with midseason firings even though they really don't help the team out. Of course back then, I wanted to kick the tires on Bienemy which I've since soured on a bit. It is interesting. I think Bienemy has adjusted somewhat, infusing more quick game, but his hatred of running the ball and his insistence on shotgun goal line and short yardage plays drives me nuts. The idea isn't to make it super easy for the defense. The idea is not to become so one-dimensional that they never have to play the run at all.

 

[Boone]

In all seriousness, the problem with having such subpar coaching, an offense with major holes in key spots, a defense that is bottom of the league, and unpredictable special teams units is that it is very hard to accurately assess Howell. But anyone with a brain has to be impressed with his overall performance. Honestly - if someone can't see the pluses there, I don't know what to tell them. I can only imagine how the kid might perform under less challenging circumstances.

 

[Chris]

Yesterday the run/pass balance was damn near 50/50. Lotta good that did. Only the very best offenses in the league could offset Washington’s defense.

 

[burgold]

For what it's worth, I loved the Hienicke story. It was almost a perfect Cinderella story. From his sister's couch to a COVID emergency QB not allowed to practice with the team to a QB who almost beat Brady in the playoffs and showed endless hustle and grit. He was so close, but in the end the slipper did not quite fit.

I also contend that Hienicke is an NFL starter. His ceiling is just bottom third of the league. You could keep him as a top backup or a low level starter, but you really would need a perfect team around him if you hoped to get to the playoffs or do something with him once there.

 

[Chris]

I think Heinicke deserves HOF consideration. 😎

 

[burgold]

Without question, he is the greatest COVID Emergency QB in NFL history!!!

 

[Commodes Fan]

For what it's worth, I loved the Hienicke story. It was almost a perfect Cinderella story. From his sister's couch to a COVID emergency QB not allowed to practice with the team to a QB who almost beat Brady in the playoffs and showed endless hustle and grit. He was so close, but in the end the slipper did not quite fit.

I also contend that Hienicke is an NFL starter. His ceiling is just bottom third of the league. You could keep him as a top backup or a low level starter, but you really would need a perfect team around him if you hoped to get to the playoffs or do something with him once there.

The Commodes were far from perfect last year....but Heinicke had a 5 - 3 - 1 record and would have led this team to the playoffs if Rivera wasn't a total imbecile.

Heinicke was far better than both Wentz and Howell and there is simply no comparison.

 

[Neophyte]

So, let's talk early QB careers....

Troy Aikman - 0-11 in his first season w/ 9 TDs and 18 INTs, 19 Sacks (52.9% comp)
Peyton Manning - 3-13 in his first season w/ 26 TDs and 28 INTs, 22 Sacks (56.7% comp)
Joe Burrow - 2-7-1 in his first season w/ 13 TDs and 5 INTs, 32 Sacks (64.7% comp)
Sam Howell - 4-9 thirteen games into his first season w/ 18 TDs and 14 INTs, 58 Sacks (65.8% comp)

So a couple of things jump out at me. First, Sam has more wins in his first season. Second, Sam has the highest completion %. Third, Sam is not only the only guy on this list drafted in the 5th round, he is the only guy NOT drafted #1 over all.

Are 58 sacks a glaring red flag? Sure. Until you dig in and understand that he has cut his sacks per game number in half over the last 6 weeks. He still has a sack issue but it is trending in the right direction. With a run game and better offensive line, who knows what he can do?

People can cherry-pick stats or games all they want but I guarantee you the first 3 guys above dropped games to some dogs in their first seasons. I also promise there were a lot of people, fans and media both, who thought each one of these guys was a bust. The first two are HOF and the third might be the best QB in the league today not named Mahommes.

With a defense ranked in the top half of the league this year, Sam has this team in a playoff spot in the NFC.

Sam is not the problem on this team.

 

[Chris]

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I’m going to guess that since the Falcons are in the playoff hunt with Ridder, those fans got tired of him too. So he’s back to argue nonsense here.

 

[Bulldog]

For those that believe that Howell is responsible for the 4-9 record - go back to the WFAN archives and listen to the Jay Gruden interview after the Dolphins game.

He indicated that Washington's problems in the passing game against Miami were largely factored in the poor play of both tackle spots in allowing consistent pressures regardless of down and distance AND the inability of Washington's receivers to get open and execute their assignments against Jalen Ramsey and the Dolphins defensive backs who in his view flat out won this matchup, often giving Howell no one to throw the ball to.

What I remember from last year was a Washington team where the defense was allowing 17-20 points in games (not counting points off offensive INTs, fumbles, etc.) that allowed Heinicke and the offense to be IN the game in the second half to put together longer drives of runs and short passes to be there in the last 2-3 minutes of the contest, win or lose.

In 2022 Washington gave up 343 total points in 17 games, an average of 20.2 per contest which ranked 7th in the NFL.

In 2023 Washington has given up 395 total points in 13 games, an average of 30.4 per contest which ranks 32nd in the NFL.

If Howell was the reason Washington was losing football games then certainly his 397 yard, 4 touchdown, 0 interception game against the Eagles and the 312 yard, 3 touchdown, 0 interception performance against Seattle should have lead to victories, right?

Until you look at the defense giving up close to 500 yards in both of those contests and short drives for Philly and Seattle on large chunk plays, answering Washington scores.

The truth of the matter is the TEAM did not support Howell in games where his performance should have lead even a 'solid' overall effort from everyone else to a victory and perhaps some momentum at mid-season.

Other than the New England game where Kwon Martin had a deflected interception at the end against the equally god-awful Patriots, I can't think of another time this season the defense came up big with a turnover to help seal a victory.

Whenever this defense has faced a top 15 quarterback during the season they have invariably been shredded to pieces and that was the pattern BEFORE Young and Sweat were traded, this defensive backfield has not been 'right' since the beginning of the season.

 

[Commodes Fan]

For those that believe that Howell is responsible for the 4-9 record - go back to the WFAN archives and listen to the Jay Gruden interview after the Dolphins game.

He indicated that Washington's problems in the passing game against Miami were largely factored in the poor play of both tackle spots in allowing consistent pressures regardless of down and distance AND the inability of Washington's receivers to get open and execute their assignments against Jalen Ramsey and the Dolphins defensive backs who in his view flat out won this matchup, often giving Howell no one to throw the ball to.

What I remember from last year was a Washington team where the defense was allowing 17-20 points in games (not counting points off offensive INTs, fumbles, etc.) that allowed Heinicke and the offense to be IN the game in the second half to put together longer drives of runs and short passes to be there in the last 2-3 minutes of the contest, win or lose.

In 2022 Washington gave up 343 total points in 17 games, an average of 20.2 per contest which ranked 7th in the NFL.

In 2023 Washington has given up 395 total points in 13 games, an average of 30.4 per contest which ranks 32nd in the NFL.

If Howell was the reason Washington was losing football games then certainly his 397 yard, 4 touchdown, 0 interception game against the Eagles and the 312 yard, 3 touchdown, 0 interception performance against Seattle should have lead to victories, right?

Until you look at the defense giving up close to 500 yards in both of those contests and short drives for Philly and Seattle on large chunk plays, answering Washington scores.

The truth of the matter is the TEAM did not support Howell in games where his performance should have lead even a 'solid' overall effort from everyone else to a victory and perhaps some momentum at mid-season.

Other than the New England game where Kwon Martin had a deflected interception at the end against the equally god-awful Patriots, I can't think of another time this season the defense came up big with a turnover to help seal a victory.

Whenever this defense has faced a top 15 quarterback during the season they have invariably been shredded to pieces and that was the pattern BEFORE Young and Sweat were traded, this defensive backfield has not been 'right' since the beginning of the season.

Howell is a big reason why this team is 4 - 9. He leads the NFL in sacks, interceptions, and pick 6s......so how could he not be largely responsible?

Howell has the same problem that Wentz had last year.....he holds the ball too long and takes too many sacks. As a result, offensive drives get killed before they even get started. That has happened in too many winnable games this season, particularly the two games against the Giants and the game against the Bears.

All three of those games were winnable with better QB play and that is a major reason why this team is 4 - 9 right now instead of 7 - 6.

Howell had the same sack problem in college, which is why he became a 5th round draft pick. And it's doubtful that he'll ever be a viable starting QB in the NFL.