BGO Blind Pig: Week 10 at Seattle

[Boone]

On this week's episode, the guys show Sam Howell some stat love, celebrate and critique a rare win in New England, and debate what happens in rainy Seattle against a team we love to hate. Complimentary 'Grow & Develop' drinking game to our first 50 listeners!

 

[Om]

I talked about EB having at minimum guaranteed himself an interview next offseason when the new GM (there will be one right?) gets serious about the next HC hire. So assuming that actually happens, what I would really like said GM to dig into with EB is his vision for a run scheme so far here in Washington.

Logan Paulson has talked several times in his film breakdowns about the relative unsophistication of our run game so far--meaning it's a pretty straightforward scheme that doesn't involve a lot of precise timing, misdirection, influence movement, etc. That comports with the impression I've had and have lamented all year....how so many of our runs involve a slightly delayed handoff deep in the backfield, and the RB having to hesitate, read blocks, and try to hit or make a hole. It just doesn't have the timing and pop that committed run teams like SF, Baltimore, even Miami this year, feature. It rarely seems to spring a guy to the second level or even generate clear run lanes as often as you'd expect (and see from other teams).

Reading up on EB's influence in KC a bit, I found the Bullock piece below from last offseason that's worth a read. It has a very detailed look at what they did up there (and yes, I know he had a possible GOAT at QB there, which helps). Clearly the stuff he was doing there has not fully made the trip east with him. It's not hard to understand why, given the OL personnel we've accumulated here weren't really built with this kind of quickness/movement in the run game in mind. But still. When you read that, seems pretty clear we aren't seeing the same vibe yet.

So when the new GM interviews EB, I really hope he digs into what EB's vision for his Washington offense going forward---be it with Howell or someone else---would ideally look like, both in terms of continuing with the dynamic pass schemes he's been building here AND, hopefully, being a bit more creative/dynamic in the run.

What the Commanders’ offense will look like under Eric Bieniemy

Breaking down the type of offense that new offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy will bring to Washington

markbullock.substack.com

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And, because it matters ... last night's libation was Woodford Reserve Double Oaked. Very nice.

 

[Boone]

I was drinking a local NC brewery favorite of mine, Duck-Rabbit Milk Stout.

I wonder if EB is so determined to see what he has in Howell in terms of ‘growing and developing’ him as an alpha passer that the running game is an afterthought almost by default?

It’s a great question though.

 

[Neophyte]

I was drinking an all-time classic that is only available this time of year - Sierra Nevada Celebration fresh-hop IPA.

Fair or not, I keep coming back to the talent level on the offensive line. I have come to believe that a clear vision of the scheme is required before talent is acquired so that the talent fits the scheme. Some Linemen are universal. I'm pretty sure that guys like Trent Williams, Chris Samuels, and Russ Grimm would have worked in any scheme the staff wanted to run. Lesser talents though need to be the proper fit for the scheme and right now I think we are seeing what square pegs look like in round holes.

 

[Om]

That's fair, Bob. The running game would almost assuredly look better with Pro Bowl level talent. Or for that matter, even better-than-average talent across the board. Or even actually talent acquired with the current run scheme in mind.

For some reason I'm kinda stuck on the notion Paulson keeps circling back to, that the run scheme we're using is not really at the level the better running teams. Like we're not really taking it as seriously or crafting at their level. He could be wrong of course, but it resonates with me on the weekly eye test.

 

[SkinsBusDriver]

As always, a very enjoyable podcast! Since I did not view it until this morning - hot green tea (Tetley) with lemon. However, I did power down two 16 oz mugs…

I share some of @Om’s thoughts about the run game. There is definitely some hesitancy with the RBs as they approach the LOS - IMO, this has really hurt Antonio Gibson since he wasn’t used much as a RB in college.

Even though it’s November and Ron’s teams have typically done really well - I will remain very nervous until we show CONSISTENCY. Under Ron we have been consistently “inconsistent”….

 

[Primus Porcus]

My first glass was a bourbon and diet, my second glass was Gin and sprite.

 

[Chris]

My gawd, Ron. Please take a step-back from using Sam Howell as your ‘human shield’. Your press conference skills are what really need some growth and development.

I believe that. I really, really do. ☠️

 

[Boone]

My gawd, Ron. Please take a step-back from using Sam Howell as your ‘human shield’. Your press conference skills are what really need some growth and development.

I believe that. I really, really do.

More so than anything else

 

[Neophyte]

That's fair, Bob. The running game would almost assuredly look better with Pro Bowl level talent. Or for that matter, even better-than-average talent across the board. Or even actually talent acquired with the current run scheme in mind.

For some reason I'm kinda stuck on the notion Paulson keeps circling back to, that the run scheme we're using is not really at the level the better running teams. Like we're not really taking it as seriously or crafting at their level. He could be wrong of course, but it resonates with me on the weekly eye test.

I don't disagree with you (or Logan) at all.

My comment was more aimed toward the idea that 4 seasons ago we were bringing in talent for Jay's run scheme. Then we spent 3 years collecting talent for Turner's scheme. Now we are picking up "talent" for EB's.

Add to that the known fact that Ron and The Marty's (sounds like a Motown group from the 60s doesn't it?) draft for versatility as much as positional skill and I am left to conclude that we might be employing as sophisticated a run scheme as we currently capable of executing.

I forget which one of us said it but recently, one of us on the Pod, used the phrase Island of Misfit Toys and I can't shake that they were correct. Often this line resembles a Frankenstein creation from an overly creative child who used pieces Lego, a couple of Lincoln Logs, some Tinker Toys, and parts from an Erector Set. All are great things in and of themselves, but they don't work well together for anyone.

I am left to wonder if any of the current OLinemen will still be on this roster to open the 2026 season.

 

[SkinsOrlando]

Neo - not sure you could justify any of these O lineman being here next year on their play so far, not much wonder imo. However, we might find as the season progresses with maybe some adjustments we've got at least 1 or 2 to hang onto.

 

[Bulldog]

I think Chris Paul deserves the 8 games. He played well in his only start of the season so far and he's only 23 and on a cheap deal.

Stromberg is going to have the chance to come back next year in camp and show a new staff that he deserves to be here.

But I anticipate the team cuts ties with Gates and eats the money. I also think the Saadiq Charles experiment is over.

Also, Leno at 33 by next year and Lucas at 32, both ex-Bears, seem to have reached the end of the line here, not to create a pun

Cosmi as he is on a cheap rookie deal could be released. He's already on position #2 with the team in 2 years and he isn't blowing the doors off the building at either spot.

 

[Neophyte]

I don't think you can turn over 80% of the line in a single year, BD. As much as we might all like to.

Yes, Lucas and Leno are nearing the end but neither has proven to be anywhere near the biggest issue with this line this year.

Lucas is out of contract at the end of this season so easy enough to let him walk away if a younger swing can be found.

Leno has a year left on his contract though. If I'm eating money next year, I'd rather do it on Wylie and Gates. Maybe Leno is that backup swing tackle? Maybe we draft the best RT in the first round?

I don't know the answers but I don't see it all being resolved well in one offseason.

 

[Bulldog]

Washington did just that in 1981, drafting Russ Grimm, signing Joe Jacoby, elevating Fred Dean and bringing Jeff Bostic up from long snapper to starting center.

Yes, that was unusual and done by a HOF General Manager and Coach, but the precedent is there to make major changes and still be ready to play an NFL season.

What makes this line so vulnerable to change is the poor pass protection through the first 7-8 games.

You really couldn't do much worse.

Again, a new regime might really like what Chris Paul and Cosmi do over the last half of the season. Stromberg could come back and show much better in camp and be retained.

It's all on the table as far as I am concerned, and that's really a rarity in the NFL.

Even bad teams usually have at least ONE offensive lineman they can point to as the anchor of the line.

Remember the 0-16 Browns? Even they had Joe Thomas, an all pro, as the LT.

Washington and New York TOGETHER IMO don't have enough talent to put out a very good offensive line.

 

[Boone]

I mean, we have 80% turnover on this line every season, whether because of multiple injuries or because they keep replacing guys in an attempt to find a serviceable combination. I actually think the unwillingness to move on from guys is part of what’s held us back for years.

Short of doing the all OL draft I semi-jokingly suggested, yeah, it probably can’t be fixed in one off-season, but I think we should be a lot more aggressive than we have d a youth movement is a big part of that. And we need a top tier OL coach.

 

[Boone]

If I’m playing the ‘Grow and Develop’ drinking game, I’m 10 shots in with this brief clip.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I think Chris Paul deserves the 8 games. He played well in his only start of the season so far and he's only 23 and on a cheap deal.

Stromberg is going to have the chance to come back next year in camp and show a new staff that he deserves to be here.

But I anticipate the team cuts ties with Gates and eats the money. I also think the Saadiq Charles experiment is over.

Also, Leno at 33 by next year and Lucas at 32, both ex-Bears, seem to have reached the end of the line here, not to create a pun

Cosmi as he is on a cheap rookie deal could be released. He's already on position #2 with the team in 2 years and he isn't blowing the doors off the building at either spot.

While i agree for the most part at the sentiment... I just dont know that we're going to be able to address 4 additional spots along the OL with all the other turnover we're already looking at across the entire roster. This is the current list of expiring contracts at the end of the season.... 22 players

By my rough count 15 - 16 of them are either currently starting, or regular rotation, and 2 of those are OL. There is going to be a massive turnover on this roster, so i just wonder if we can afford to bring in players at these positions on the 53 man roster AND upgrade 4 - 5 starting O-Line positions. I could see Gates and Leno being starters next year, depending on how the OTs fall in the draft. I hope we have a whole new line, but i can see a path where it's not plausable.

 

[Bulldog]

Quarterback is the most important position on the field. The offensive line helps keep your quarterback upright for 16 games and off injured reserve.

It's that simple of an equation to me

I don't think anyone is expecting Washington to move on from Rivera and go into 2024 with the expectation that we are aiming at 14-2 and a Super Bowl berth.

If we are still in the process of building a contender then to me that's a good opportunity to upgrade one of the most important areas of the team.

My guess is if there are multiple changes on the offensive line, only one - the #1 draft pick is likely to be a starter.

I see the team going into free agency to find two veterans to help solidify the line.

If those veteran players can't take an offseason, learn the offense, and come out in September ready to play ball with Howell then they will not have been the right players to sign.

 

[Neophyte]

I think there was some confusion and that's on me. I should have been clearer. I didn't mean 80% of the starters.

I mean 80% of the whole position group.

And the only way we get to 80% is if the new regime decides they like Paul, Stromberg, and Cosmi. Maybe these 3 are still here in 2 years and none of these are among our best.

Our best 3 guys right now are Leno, Larsen, and Lucsas (who can't even get on the field with this coaching staff) and all 3 are 32 or older so not long-term solutions to anything.

 

[Boone]

I go to my default position. What are we afraid of? Can the OL possibly be worse? I don’t care if we had 100% new starters and backups. That may be a little extreme but we may set the all time sack record this year. Only caveat is a some of our issues may be coaching failure.