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Howling for Howell
- Thread starter Chris
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No picks
5-1-1 as a starter. Best record in the NFL over the past 6 games....
We're talking about replacing him? This is as baffling to me as letting good players go is to you.
I don't get why we would replace a guy who is motivated, getting better, and actually winning with a guy who proved last year he was bad, or an unproven rookie.
5-1-1 as a starter. Best record in the NFL over the past 6 games....
We're talking about replacing him? This is as baffling to me as letting good players go is to you.
I don't get why we would replace a guy who is motivated, getting better, and actually winning with a guy who proved last year he was bad, or an unproven rookie.
I can't argue with any of this really. I do think Howell is the future for us at the position.
I'm on record as saying that we play the season out with Heineke,
With our O-line beaten to crap, I think Wentz is a sitting duck who will break the sack record. Heineke may not be the second coming of the QB-Jesus, but it's clear that this team believes in him and that they can win with him. They all absolutely believe that he gives them a chance to win in the last second. Problem is, often he's the one that is directly/indirectly responsible for the team needing that last second drive to score.
I honestly don't know who I'd want to run out for the rest of the system, but the record with Heineke under center can't be disputed. Team finds a way to win with him there.
The moment we're out of contention (being pessimistic for a mo!) I'd roll with Howell and get ready for next year with a trio fo Howell, backed up by Heineke, and maybe with a QBX picked up in the draft.
Trading has been a dead end, and it's the same for everyone all over the league. Look at the mess with Wilson, Stafford, Ryan et al.
Keep plugging that gap with young talent until we hit the right piece.
As for Heineke... it's clear he's a backup level QB, but he's a backup you can win with. The team ADORES him and he's a good man to have in the locker room. No ego, supports the team, professional. I'd want to keep him around.
I'm on record as saying that we play the season out with Heineke,
With our O-line beaten to crap, I think Wentz is a sitting duck who will break the sack record. Heineke may not be the second coming of the QB-Jesus, but it's clear that this team believes in him and that they can win with him. They all absolutely believe that he gives them a chance to win in the last second. Problem is, often he's the one that is directly/indirectly responsible for the team needing that last second drive to score.
I honestly don't know who I'd want to run out for the rest of the system, but the record with Heineke under center can't be disputed. Team finds a way to win with him there.
The moment we're out of contention (being pessimistic for a mo!) I'd roll with Howell and get ready for next year with a trio fo Howell, backed up by Heineke, and maybe with a QBX picked up in the draft.
Trading has been a dead end, and it's the same for everyone all over the league. Look at the mess with Wilson, Stafford, Ryan et al.
Keep plugging that gap with young talent until we hit the right piece.
As for Heineke... it's clear he's a backup level QB, but he's a backup you can win with. The team ADORES him and he's a good man to have in the locker room. No ego, supports the team, professional. I'd want to keep him around.
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Heinicke is who he is, which is pretty bad outside of a handful of plays each game. Most people will only remember the emotion from the 4th quarter game tying drive, without remembering the whole of the game. This offense still has not scored more than 2 TDs in any game since week 2. Having said that, I still think you give Heinicke a chance to redeem himself and start against the Giants. Maybe you are throwing your season away by banging your head against that wall again, but I’d still give him that shot. If he falls on his face, I’d like to see Howell. I just don’t think it will happen. They will go to Wentz at least until they are eliminated if they take out Heinicke. But that schedule down the stretch is filled with dominant D lines. So going to Wentz will not work out. I’m just not sure if going to Howell in that spot will work either.
Bulldog
The Legend
What we have seen of Carson Wentz post-2018 is that he doesn't do well when he faces adversity.
In other words, he's not a mudder
I watched the 0-22 start against a poor Detroit defense, the awful performance against the Bears and even the opening game performance against a weak Jacksonville club where his 4 touchdowns are balanced against 2 interceptions and a fumble - and wonder why anyone would necessarily think Carson Wentz is a solution for this club.
My guess looking in from the outside by the play on the field is that the other players see the lack of mental toughness in Wentz and don't have confidence in him.
The strongest arm in the league isn't worth much if we see interceptions like we did at the goal line against Tennessee to cost this team what looked to be an almost certain victory.
Solid starting quarterbacks don't make that type of mistake especially on FIRST down.
If anything Wentz is at the opposite end of the scale from Taylor Heinicke.
Wentz is on the left hand side where the player has strong physical skills but limited mobility, decision-making and toughness and on the right extreme is Taylor who has moxy and mental toughness but lacks the strong arm.
An improvement to this club IMO comes when we hit the MIDDLE of the scale where we have a quarterback on the field who can make the throws, has at least good mobility (he doesn't have to be Lamar Jackson) and shows leadership skills.
Until we see THAT guy walk through the door, this team has to play well at ALL levels to win games. Our quarterbacks in 2022 cannot win games on their own and when Turner or Wentz early on tried to cash in on his arm ran into the issues of his decision-making and immobility.
In other words, he's not a mudder
I watched the 0-22 start against a poor Detroit defense, the awful performance against the Bears and even the opening game performance against a weak Jacksonville club where his 4 touchdowns are balanced against 2 interceptions and a fumble - and wonder why anyone would necessarily think Carson Wentz is a solution for this club.
My guess looking in from the outside by the play on the field is that the other players see the lack of mental toughness in Wentz and don't have confidence in him.
The strongest arm in the league isn't worth much if we see interceptions like we did at the goal line against Tennessee to cost this team what looked to be an almost certain victory.
Solid starting quarterbacks don't make that type of mistake especially on FIRST down.
If anything Wentz is at the opposite end of the scale from Taylor Heinicke.
Wentz is on the left hand side where the player has strong physical skills but limited mobility, decision-making and toughness and on the right extreme is Taylor who has moxy and mental toughness but lacks the strong arm.
An improvement to this club IMO comes when we hit the MIDDLE of the scale where we have a quarterback on the field who can make the throws, has at least good mobility (he doesn't have to be Lamar Jackson) and shows leadership skills.
Until we see THAT guy walk through the door, this team has to play well at ALL levels to win games. Our quarterbacks in 2022 cannot win games on their own and when Turner or Wentz early on tried to cash in on his arm ran into the issues of his decision-making and immobility.
The only player that would be excited to see Wentz return is Jahan Dotson. 
Bulldog
The Legend
Yep, but McLaurin seems to own the locker room with J. Allen and I don't think he and Wentz are on the same page on the field.
The offense left some things out there against NY, but McLaurin had 100 yards, Robinson was near 100 on the ground for good average and Heinicke engineered the fourth quarter drive to get the game to OT, with 270 2/0 overall.
The offense left some things out there against NY, but McLaurin had 100 yards, Robinson was near 100 on the ground for good average and Heinicke engineered the fourth quarter drive to get the game to OT, with 270 2/0 overall.
Ain't that the truth. Was that our first glimpse of him doing something yesterday since he's come back from the injury?The only player that would be excited to see Wentz return is Jahan Dotson.
You can't do it. You just can't pull Heine right now.
I hate to say this but Mike is absolutely right. The team is winning with him on the field. If something is working, for whatever reason, you don't mess with it.
Heinicke is very limited, but the one thing he does well, like really well, is he senses the pressure, doesn't panic, and buys himself time to throw. Wentz, from what I can tell, is horrible at that. Howell ... who knows? But right now, with the offense the team runs, they've proven they can win with Heinicke's strengths. The OL is terrible at pass pro. Having a QB that can play behind a crap line is pretty important at the moment. Hopefully it won't be next year and beyond, but right now, the guy who can survive behind the line is the guy who should play. And that's Heinicke.
That said, the team needs to stop messing around, find a real QB, and figure out how to keep him on the roster for a decade or more. Hopefully Snyder sells the team and whoever buys it understands the importance of creating an overall philosophy and consistency, which allows the team to find and develop a real QB. Until then, this discussion is largely moot.
I hate to say this
but Mike is absolutely right. The team is winning with him on the field. If something is working, for whatever reason, you don't mess with it.Heinicke is very limited, but the one thing he does well, like really well, is he senses the pressure, doesn't panic, and buys himself time to throw. Wentz, from what I can tell, is horrible at that. Howell ... who knows? But right now, with the offense the team runs, they've proven they can win with Heinicke's strengths. The OL is terrible at pass pro. Having a QB that can play behind a crap line is pretty important at the moment. Hopefully it won't be next year and beyond, but right now, the guy who can survive behind the line is the guy who should play. And that's Heinicke.
That said, the team needs to stop messing around, find a real QB, and figure out how to keep him on the roster for a decade or more. Hopefully Snyder sells the team and whoever buys it understands the importance of creating an overall philosophy and consistency, which allows the team to find and develop a real QB. Until then, this discussion is largely moot.
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I'm just curious ... is anyone here calling for Wentz? If so I've missed it.
Ah. Merci.
Interesting thing about that would be that IF Rivera were to put in Wentz ahead of Howell, it would almost certainly be because he also believed Howell "isn't ready" and Wentz, warts and all, still gives him the best chance to win in a season with legit playoff aspirations. I am still waiting (hopefully) for even one whisper from a credible source that counters the whispers we have heard that Howell just ain't ready.
There is so little real practice now. Basically just walk-throughs, game plan installations, circumstantial prep (red zone, 3rd down, etc) that there are no realistic opportunities to show growth. If there has been growth. I would be very surprised if Heinicke isn’t getting all of whatever reps there are or at least 90%.
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I don’t want Wentz I just wouldn’t be surprised if we saw him again.
Here’s the thing though, the biggest factor in our not getting enough points to win at the Giants was the pressure they put on the QB. Worst OL pass pro since the Philly 9 sack game. They were all over Heinicke. Given that pressure, gotta cut Mr. Heinicke some slack (a point several guys made yesterday). And it all but guarantees Wentz being Mr. Statue in the pocket won’t see the field for the time being (a point Bulldog has made).
This team goes where Heinicke can take it. I don’t know how they patch up this OL and pass pro in 2 weeks but they’d better figure something out.
Here’s the thing though, the biggest factor in our not getting enough points to win at the Giants was the pressure they put on the QB. Worst OL pass pro since the Philly 9 sack game. They were all over Heinicke. Given that pressure, gotta cut Mr. Heinicke some slack (a point several guys made yesterday). And it all but guarantees Wentz being Mr. Statue in the pocket won’t see the field for the time being (a point Bulldog has made).
This team goes where Heinicke can take it. I don’t know how they patch up this OL and pass pro in 2 weeks but they’d better figure something out.
Was thinking/assuming Howell's been running the scout team ... doesn't mean snaps with starters, but it is a daily chance for the coaches to watch him work and hopefully grow.
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May be wishful thinking but I’m not sure Rivera’s ‘he’s not ready’ isn’t just ‘there’s no reason to rush a rookie when we have a vet and an experienced backup’ vs. any kind of real statement on how he is looking.
I never heard Rivera say anything about Howell, fwiw. The "not ready" comments I believe I've heard were from Keim, Standig and maybe one of the 980 guys.
If Howell is running the scout team (not Fromm) then at least he is going against a good defense with a second-rate offensive line. 
Truth. And I don't know whether Howell's taking snaps at all ... just keep coming back to wanting to hear SOME indication he's become even a gleam in Ron' eye.
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