What's the Priority the Rest of the Way?

[Ax]

Play to win the game? Like keep putting a guy with 3 fumbles back in to fumble punts? Not playing to win there.

Not the same. I've been screaming for Crowder to be replaced as a PR ever since his 1st season.

 

[Ax]

Now if they get rid of Gruden and Kirk- the spawn of Satan -Cousins(as you make him out to be)...maybe they start bottoming out and hanging with the Browns.

Not sure how believing he isn't worth the money, while also pointing out the fact that it's all about the money for him, i.e. Greedy Lying Bastard, makes him the spawn of the devil.
But if you need me to be your boogeyman, I can handle that.

 

[Ax]

Playing for draft position is one of the dumbest concepts ever bandied about, each and every season.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Not really.
What's even more ridiculous are the fans that think losing teams can create momentum for next year by trying to win, when playing out the string.

 

[Enforcer]

It's a tough one.

I would like to see the team try and win out, but not at all costs.

I wouldn't rush back Allen, wait till he's ready or we make that miracle playoff berth. I'd seriously think about shutting down Trent, at least temporarily.

The Skins really need to effect a culture change of expecting to win. I think we're close to that, but we're just not consistent enough for it to stick. We need success to change that and tanking for the draft isn't the way to do it.
Plus if we DID tank for the draft and finish the season 6-10, you can guarantee that as a fan base we'd bring it up when looking at W/L records and conveniently forget the reason why.

I think you try to win out, but you try and be smart about it. Don't put players that are hurt at unnecessary risk, and try and see what you've got in the youngsters heading into the post season and draft.

It's a fine line to tread.

I agree with this! We will randomly get on late runs to make the playoffs, but otherwise are in the 5-6 wins realm. Try to win. If you finish 8-8/9-7, that is at the very least, 3 seasons in a row of .500/just above .500 ball. Which, hasn't happened around here in forever. So, you still gotta' ball out. And then hopefully, we can break through and have better winning seasons. (Though, not optimistic w/ the way this org is run).

And at the same time, if it is better long-term to rest guys like Trent, Moses, etc. Do it.

 

[Ax]

What's even more ridiculous are the fans that think losing teams can create momentum for next year by trying to win, when playing out the string.

Well, good thing that's not what I said.

Winning, should always be the objective. There are no exceptions. Ever.

Draft position guarantees nothing. Unless you believe there's no way in hell a player with the potential of Jonathan Allen could possibly fall to the 20th slot. Or a Darrell Green to what, 28th?

 

[Ax]

Trent requires surgery, they say, after the season. Barring the chance that there actually is a God, and he has the Redskins in a football pool, the season is over as far as the playoffs go.

But again, the objective should always be to win. Sure there are many common sense caveats at play.
Such as Trent's surgery. etc...

 

[Boone]

I think we are building a culture of winning. I know that will elicit snark from some. But how else do you explain going on the road and knocking off teams that we supposedly aren't competitive with? And even when we haven't won, by and large, we've been in games. We're not the Browns guys. It takes time to turn around a ship that's mostly been going in the wrong direction for 25 years. It's hard to watch that ship start to turn and even harder to believe it is actually turning and to be patient.

Said in my blog earlier this week. Even in a lost season there are positive trends with this team. One of the most positive has been the improvement of an absolutely horrific defense. We were 28th in the league in total yards allowed in both 2015 and 2016. This season, we're currently 19th, and we'd be a helluva lot better than that had we not had so many injuries. That is a huge improvement.

There is no doubt that 2017 has been a 1 step forward, 2 steps back kind of a year. But I do believe this team is getting better, 2017 record aside. I agree the culture needs to be one where we expect to win every week. Right now, we have a culture of competing. Almost all teams, even the consistently good ones, lose games. They may even occasionally look awful. The problem with the Redskins has been that they never win enough to have a buffer where a couple bad losses don't derail the entire season. Every year, we win some games no one thought we could. Problem is - we also lose games we have no business losing. If the franchise can continue to be patient and continue building, I really hope to see more winning, and less just competing.

 

[Boone]

Starting players who are not 100% isn't just about 'winning'. How about trying to ensure Kirk's head and arms are still attached at season's end?

It's not as 'simple' as some of us portray it. Decisions are tough and there are never perfect ones to be made.

And NFL coaches have to make these kinds of decisions every single week.

 

[Knightingale]

Starting players who are not 100% isn't just about 'winning'. How about trying to ensure Kirk's head and arms are still attached at season's end?

It's not as 'simple' as some of us portray it. Decisions are tough and there are never perfect ones to be made.

And NFL coaches have to make these kinds of decisions every single week.

*Nods* this is what I was talking about when I said a fine line needs to be trod.

I think we need to shut Trent down to stop his injury from getting worse, and the sooner it's operated on the sooner he's rehabbing for next season.

I'd shut down Reed too. He's not been with us for most of the season anyway so we don't 'need' him right now. He's better off resting up and healing.

I'd be really careful with Allen. Lisfranc injuries are tricky, I speak from experience. I don't want him out there right now till he's 100%. If he is then I'd like to see him get game reps.

I want Cousins out there balling with Doctson and some of the young receivers like Harris and Sprinkle. I think game time will be valuable to avoiding this years early season chemistry troubles.

I'd play the rest of the O-Line but keep an eye on Moses as he's been really banged up. I can't believe he's been playing on sprains for 8 weeks now, the mans a warrior. I remember spraining my ankle back in my hoops days and I could barely walk on it.

Over on D, I'd try giving more snaps to the younger guys. If we hemorrhage yards so be it, but I want to see them get game time. I'd like to see Gallette get plenty of reps too, see if we can't get him back to his previous form a bit more for next year.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Why would a coach "tank" the season, and thereby jeopardize his job security ?

 

[Boone]

Why would a coach "tank" the season, and thereby jeopardize his job security ?

I think the obvious answer is that a coach would never, independently, make the decision to tank a season. Something like that could only occur as an 'organizational' decision. But as previously stated, I don't believe teams formally decide to lose out to improve draft position. Losing teams lose. And the losingest of teams lose more. When you're really bad, it doesn't really take a concerted plan to keep on losing.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Well, good thing that's not what I said.

Winning, should always be the objective. There are no exceptions. Ever.

Draft position guarantees nothing. Unless you believe there's no way in hell a player with the potential of Jonathan Allen could possibly fall to the 20th slot. Or a Darrell Green to what, 28th?

Well as far as Jonathan Allen is concerned, it only took what? 30 years for a game changing Dlineman to fall to us in the draft?

And Darrell Green? If you really have to reach back that far? Besides, we had a great GM,potential HOFer, making picks.

Compare that to who we have now, making those selections.

We have Bruce, who just three yrs ago,in front of the media, said that he couldn't do the GM job.

That really should give the fans the warm and fuzzies.......

 

[Burgundy Burner]

It is now evaluation season for the Redskins. Kalis was claimed off of waivers today and Davis was promoted from the PS.

 

[Ax]

Well as far as Jonathan Allen is concerned, it only took what? 30 years for a game changing Dlineman to fall to us in the draft?

And Darrell Green? If you really have to reach back that far? Besides, we had a great GM,potential HOFer, making picks.

Compare that to who we have now, making those selections.

We have Bruce, who just three yrs ago,in front of the media, said that he couldn't do the GM job.

That really should give the fans the warm and fuzzies.......

Well then, there you go. Confirmation that, trying to lose, in order to improve draft position, is a ridiculously ignorant strategy. Especially since, according to you and others, the front office could have every selection in the first 4 rounds, and still fail to draft any players that can spell football. Much less play it.

You know damn well that every draft, every year, has players drafted throughout every round, that are busts/steals.
And don't forget, even "great" GM's draft Ryan Leaf's, Walter Murray's, Tory Nixon's, etc... and often trade next years 1st rounder's for them, no less.
But not all of them have the best head coach, ever, to turn their coal dust into diamonds.

Our draft failures over the years have been more a product of the HC turnover than anything else.

 

[Docsandy]

I agree that the objective should always be winning.

However I also agree that perhaps a couple players nursing injuries need to be benched, or in the case of Trent, let him have his surgery so he can start rehabbing for next year. Having him playing injured only risks something worse happening.

On the Allen injury, I'm on the fence. I agree with Knightingale with regards to not fooling around with a Lis franc injury but at the same time as a rookie, perhaps he needs some reps... I don't speak from personal experience, but I did work as an orthopedic tech and those injuries are, indeed, tricky to evaluate when the healing is 100%. Thus I am definitely on the fence with Allen.

Most of my "football knowledgeable" friends, whether they are Redskin fans or not, are mystified over the number of injuries we've had and the fact that, with the exception of a couple games, we are still "in games" competing. They say that their team with those injuries would never have had a chance to win games (though I said in reply I disagree.. you know... "on any given Sunday"...

I appreciate those friends empthasizing with the number of injuries we've suffered. Despite being part of the game, I don't think anyone would deny that we've had way more than our share of injuries this season. Way more. And to key positions.

IN that regard, I guess what I'm saying is if you are playing the game, you''re playing to win. Period. I've even had people say to me in the past (way past) that they believe some games are "fixed"... I'm not at that level but it is surely weird that we can be a "no-show" against Dallas on Thursday night, yet beat Seattle in their home field with even more players out than we had against Dallas. Have no clue why things like that happens unless it's a massive failure of game preparation and emotions. Perhaps the players need to be shown some of the videos we share on here with regard to the "Dallas rivalry" and such other opponents.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Well then, there you go. Confirmation that, trying to lose, in order to improve draft position, is a ridiculously ignorant strategy. Especially since, according to you and others, the front office could have every selection in the first 4 rounds, and still fail to draft any players that can spell football. Much less play it.

You know damn well that every draft, every year, has players drafted throughout every round, that are busts/steals.
And don't forget, even "great" GM's draft Ryan Leaf's, Walter Murray's, Tory Nixon's, etc... and often trade next years 1st rounder's for them, no less.
But not all of them have the best head coach, ever, to turn their coal dust into diamonds.

Our draft failures over the years have been more a product of the HC turnover than anything else.

Horse Hockey.

Our draft failure can be totally attributed to an incompetent Front Office that has been the hallmark of this franchise since Snyder took over.

One of Snyder's first moves was running Casserley out of town and saddling the team with Vinny Cerrato. Who was hired, then fired by Marty, then brought back again.

For an owner who claims to be a big fan and grew up watching Gibbs 1, he never set a coherent direction for this team and instead chose to hire folks like Cerrato ,who would allow him to armchair GM.

He hired Bruce, partly because of his family name and it's ties to this club.

Yes, constant coaching changes do not help but look who's making those selections? There's your answer.

Now go and try to blow this off as some old fan that's overly negative but the facts back this up:

The Redskins have failed to reach 10 wins in 23 out of 26 seasons. That's an 88% failure rate.

Until the owner either sells out, dies or is truly embarrassed enough that he hires a legit Front Office and not some buddy or a guy who's Dad once coached here...we're screwed as a fanbase.

Jonathan Allen falling to us was a miracle. It wasn't no master stroke of draft maneuvering. There aren't enough brain cells at the Park to competently maneuver and manipulate a draft.

That's without a doubt been proven over the last 26 years.

 

[Ax]

Horse Hockey? You want to play Horse Hockey?
Fine, let's play.

Horse Hockey.

The correct title is, Polo.............BOOM!

Our draft failure can be totally attributed to an incompetent Front Office that has been the hallmark of this franchise since Snyder took over.

False. Everybody knows this. **Even you.
But I know, Snyder is the Debil. The 2nd shooter on the Grassy Knoll. The creator of all the world's diseases. And the sole reason famine exists...........BOOM!

One of Snyder's first moves was running Casserley out of town and saddling the team with Vinny Cerrato. Who was hired, then fired by Marty, then brought back again.

Finally, some accuracy. Of course, Casserly wasn't a very good GM. But he was better than ole Bug Eyes......SLICE!

For an owner who claims to be a big fan and grew up watching Gibbs 1, he never set a coherent direction for this team and instead chose to hire folks like Cerrato ,who would allow him to armchair GM.

Again, more accuracy!............SLICE!

He hired Bruce, partly because of his family name and it's ties to this club.

Damn! You're on a roll! Of course, one has to acknowledge the family name was the main reason for Allen's hiring. 3 straight accurate assertions.............SLICE!

Yes, constant coaching changes do not help but look who's making those selections? There's your answer.

**So here, with the underlined portion of your claim, you concede that your earlier statement was, incorrect/fabricated/total BS, when you claimed that our draft failures were "totally attributed" to the front office. So.............BOOM!

Now go and try to blow this off as some old fan that's overly negative but the facts back this up:

Well alrighty then. I don't know if you're old. But I am. And history is what it is. Whether you wish to re-write it or not. You are negative in regards to everything Snyder/Allen. That the choice you make........BOOM!

As to your "facts"..........

The Redskins have failed to reach 10 wins in 23 out of 26 seasons. That's an 88% failure rate.

While true, the inference you're implying, based on the theme of your post, suggests this is a Snyder failure.
However, the FACTS are, he hasn't owned the team for 26 years. more like 19 isn't it? And all 3 of the 10 win seasons were under Snyder. Now, keep in mind that I used your numbers here. You can change them now if you want, but for these purposes, regarding your post we're currently discussing, you've been shot down. BOOM!

Until the owner either sells out, dies or is truly embarrassed enough that he hires a legit Front Office and not some buddy or a guy who's Dad once coached here...we're screwed as a fanbase.

Sorry, this is not a fact. It's an opinion.............BOOM!

Jonathan Allen falling to us was a miracle. It wasn't no master stroke of draft maneuvering. There aren't enough brain cells at the Park to competently maneuver and manipulate a draft.

This here is half fact, half fiction. So it's a wash. Except you started this portion claiming "the facts" back up your claims.
So.................BOOM!

That's without a doubt been proven over the last 26 years.

Lastly, nothing has been "proven". And again you suggest the last 26 years are on Snyder.
Which is completely, undeniably, incorrect............BOOM!


Moral of the story is, don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

But thanks for playing.

Disclaimer: This is all meant in good fun. Nothing personal.

 

[Neophyte]

Go out and win. It's an attitude and a habit. There has been enough losing around here, we need to establish a different expectation.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Ax,

Don't believe I'd get excited about 16 out of 19 either...that's still an 84 % fail rate.

Nothing personal taken.

IMO, we're all Skins fans that want to see a winning tradition return and we argue with each other with how in the hell the franchise we grew up loving became the Browns of the NFC East.