Alfred Morris

[Bulldog]

Gruden talked about Jones' health and his issues holding onto the ball, but I was surprised to hear him call Jones a 'smart' football player as there were a number of times last year Jones didn't line up properly or otherwise didn't seem to have a solid grasp of the playbook/where specific plays were going, etc.

That part of his game needs to come along at a much faster clip in 2016.

Scherff and Jamison Crowder seemed to pick things up more readily as rookies making the transition to the NFL who were put on the field early on.

 

[Elephant]

Pretty sure that pic is the end of the long run off the screen pass too. Not a run from scrimmage.

His claim was breakaway speed. He broke away from one of the better safeties in the game, Vacarro is no turtle.

 

[TomE]

Valid or not, I understand the 'get into a rhythm' claim made by many including Alf's own agent.

Does the same apply to Jones?

Perhaps both backs suffered from the same demise and one then could justify the coaching 'complaint'.

[chuckle] coaches comments through biased interpretation, always becomes fodder to feed the agenda.[/chuckle]

 

[TomE]

Maybe just Alf's rookie year vs Jones' rookie year?

Not really interested in those stats, totally different circumstances in scheme and the threat Griff presented along side of him.

My intention is to not denigrate anything that Alf did, love the kid and what he did for us. Just saying that under the same circumstances neither he or Jones did particularly well within the system both played in 2015.

We're all looking for excuses/reasons for the lack of output by both guys and maybe 'rhythm' is one of them.

 

[Boone]

tr1 knows as any Redskins fan does that Morris had a phenomenal rookie year. Truth be told, he was probably as big a factor in the Redskins success as Griffin was and arguably was equally deserving of ROY honors. That was almost 6 years ago however. And as Tom stated, you have to look at the RB in the context of other factors. Matt Jones might've had as impressive a rookie season in that first year of the pistol - who's to say.

 

[stevenaa]

Good teams move on from players when it's time to move on and don't concern themselves with the players landing spots because they are confident in their evaluation and have nothing to fear. We all love Alf, but it was time to move on.

 

[Bulldog]

Given Morris' limited production in 2015, I don't think this is going to be a PR hit one way or the other.

The New York Giants who went out and spent megabucks to sign Vernon, Harrison and Jenkins are the ones under the spotlight and so are the teams that let these players walk.

Vernon has a high upside and could put up sack totals that make Miami regret letting him go.

Even if Morris runs for 800-1,000 yards I see him as a 3-4 yard per carry inside rusher.

I don't think anyone is going to jump on the Redskins for allowing a guy to leave that averages 4.0 or 4.2 yards per carry behind an excellent offensive line after 1,150 carries the past few years.

 

[Om]

Because, you know, this topic really doesn't get the attention it deserves ... IS it a "fact" that Jones was "Gruden's guy?" Or is it possible that a professional football coach favors whatever player, at whatever position, he feels best suited to help his team win any given play, series, game, season, etc.?

To me the notion that any coach plays "favorites," to his own and his teams' detriment, has always seemed particularly confusing. Coaches have long careers and make lots of money and get laid a lot because they win. They win by playing the best people they have at their disposal and hoping those people are better than the people the guy on the other side of the field is playing because HE wants to be rich and famous and get laid a lot too.

 

[Neophyte]

To me the notion that any coach plays "favorites," to his own and his teams' detriment, has always seemed particularly confusing. Coaches have long careers and make lots of money and get laid a lot because they win. They win by playing the best people they have at their disposal and hoping those people are better than the people the guy on the other side of the field is playing because HE wants to be rich and famous and get laid a lot too.

Watched any USMNT soccer recently?

Not saying Jay is guilty of it here but you did say "any coach".

 

[Om]

No, I've not been able to watch Jurgen's great run-up-to-World-Cup-Qualifying-fest so far. But if I had, I'd probably argue that whatever personnel choices he's making are more about his view/judgment of what's best for the program in its quest to be a factor in Russia 2018 than it is because he likes Kid A more than he likes Kid B. He might not always be right in that judgment, but I think the presumption ought to be that he's at least making it for football reasons, rather than playing personal favorites. Is that not a reasonable observation?

 

[Henry]

Valid or not, I understand the 'get into a rhythm' claim made by many including Alf's own agent.

Does the same apply to Jones?

Perhaps both backs suffered from the same demise and one then could justify the coaching 'complaint'.

[chuckle] coaches comments through biased interpretation, always becomes fodder to feed the agenda.[/chuckle]

Yes.

Yes yes yes.

In fact, the answer to that question would be ... yes.

The same would apply to any back that had to somehow produce in our horrid run scheme. Not put to fine a point on this, but some of us have been saying this pretty much all season long.

Somebody should have gotten the call. If it not Morris, it should have been Jones. But it wasn't either, and here we are.

Good teams move on from players when it's time to move on and don't concern themselves with the players landing spots because they are confident in their evaluation and have nothing to fear. We all love Alf, but it was time to move on.

Good coaches fit their schemes to their talent. Fair coaches say "what we do works," expect their players to adjust to the scheme, and then when that doesn't happen fans say things like "The coach is calling good plays. If the players don't execute them it's not the coach's fault."

If Alf isn't a Gruden guy then so be it. Let him go and move on. However, I'd have liked to have seen Morris better utilized while he was here. 200 carries was a waste of a two-time pro-bowler.

 

[Henry]

Because, you know, this topic really doesn't get the attention it deserves ... IS it a "fact" that Jones was "Gruden's guy?" Or is it possible that a professional football coach favors whatever player, at whatever position, he feels best suited to help his team win any given play, series, game, season, etc.?

To me the notion that any coach plays "favorites," to his own and his teams' detriment, has always seemed particularly confusing. Coaches have long careers and make lots of money and get laid a lot because they win. They win by playing the best people they have at their disposal and hoping those people are better than the people the guy on the other side of the field is playing because HE wants to be rich and famous and get laid a lot too.

I don't know the particulars with Gruden and the Redskins, but yes, I am absolutely certain coaches play favorites. Some are better at realizing it than others, but they all do it to some degree. Yes I would say they do.

 

[Neophyte]

No, I've not been able to watch Jurgen's great run-up-to-World-Cup-Qualifying-fest so far. But if I had, I'd probably argue that whatever personnel choices he's making are more about his view/judgment of what's best for the program in its quest to be a factor in Russia 2018 than it is because he likes Kid A more than he likes Kid B. He might not always be right in that judgment, but I think the presumption ought to be that he's at least making it for football reasons, rather than playing personal favorites. Is that not a reasonable observation?

I'd like to think so, Mark. Truly. I've been a Jurgen supporter from Day 1 but his choices and decisions are getting harder and harder to defend or understand without the idea that he just has favorites.

Good coaches fit their schemes to their talent. Fair coaches say "what we do works," expect their players to adjust to the scheme, and then when that doesn't happen fans say things like "The coach is calling good plays. If the players don't execute them it's not the coach's fault."

If Alf isn't a Gruden guy then so be it. Let him go and move on. However, I'd have liked to have seen Morris better utilized while he was here. 200 carries was a waste of a two-time pro-bowler.

This right here. I have less issue with letting him go then I do with just flat misuse.

 

[Om]

I don't know the particulars with Gruden and the Redskins, but yes, I am absolutely certain coaches play favorites. Some are better at realizing it than others, but they all do it to some degree. Yes I would say they do.

So noted.

And I am absolutely certain that there is no way to support that argument ... or try to refute it other than with common sense, i.e., no one would knowingly do that to the detriment of their own chances of success, and fewer still would rise to the position professional football coaches in the first place if they did.

So here we are.

 

[Henry]

So noted.

And I am absolutely certain that there is no way to support that argument ... or try to refute it other than with common sense, i.e., no one would knowingly do that to the detriment of their own chances of success, and fewer still would rise to the position professional football coaches in the first place if they did.

So here we are.

Oh I am sure most coaches don't do it on purpose, but I am sure they do it.

That is, of course, just my opinion. There is no way to prove or disprove such a thing.

I will say, however, that it has been stated many many times on this board that it made perfect sense to phase out Morris because he didn't fit Gruden's scheme. It's been said many more times that Jones was drafted because he fits the scheme Gruden wants to run better. Maybe that was all hokum. Again, no way to know for sure.

 

[Neophyte]

So noted.

And I am absolutely certain that there is no way to support that argument ... or try to refute it other than with common sense, i.e., no one would knowingly do that to the detriment of their own chances of success, and fewer still would rise to the position professional football coaches in the first place if they did.

So here we are.

Brother, I love and respect you. You know that. But this is just not being realistic. We, as humans, watch people play favorites everyday. We see parents do it with kids, without knowing or meaning to. We see teachers do it. Managers do it. If we are honest with ourselves, we do it. And we see people succeed in spit of themselves and those favorites. Happens every day.

Why then is it so hard to believe that a pro football coach would do it? Making bad decisions is only human. Doing it unknowingly or accidentally is perhaps even more only human. These guys are, at the end of the day, just like you and I. No better and no worse, subject to all the same mistakes and prejudices. In one way, they might be even worse...pride.

 

[Om]

Oh I am sure most coaches don't do it on purpose, but I am sure they do it.

That is, of course, just my opinion. There is no way to prove or disprove such a thing.

I will say, however, that it has been stated many many times on this board that it made perfect sense to phase out Morris because he didn't fit Gruden's scheme. It's been said many more times that Jones was drafted because he fits the scheme Gruden wants to run better. Maybe that was all hokum. Again, no way to know for sure.

That part I absolutely agree with. And I think we'll see another guy drafted this year with the same ends in mind, and won't be surprised if we bring in guys like that every year. I think RB by committee is the way of the new passing NFL unless you happen to have an Adrian Petersen or other all-world back that lasts more than the usual 3-5 most backs seem to last.

Where I think I part with you and others here is that Gruden made up his mind early not to use Alfred because he didn't like him, or played favorites, or didn't know HOW to use him, or whatever. I think if Alf had shown the power and burst of his first couple years, he would have gotten all kinds of playing time, and we'd be talking about Jones in terms of how interested we all are in seeing what he can do when he finally gets his chance in 2016.

I won't repeat myself again and list all the combination of reasons/factors I think contributed to our anemic running game last year--that kind of thinking doesn't play as well here these days as pointing to one thing and saying that's it!--but I will say yet again that it became apparent to me early in the season that Alfred didn't "look right" this year. That has been observed by enough football people as well that I think it's a pretty reasonable position ... and I think it's therefore reasonable to assume that the coaching staff observed and adjusted to the same thing.

I hope Gruden, McCloughan, Callahan, McVay, etc., are able to build a running game capable of at least supporting, if not elevating, the passing game it already appears they have on track. And I don't really care who they get to do it. I don't, you know, play favorites. They do, and we could become an offensive force to be reckoned with. They don't, and we'll be relying on a passing game and hoping the other side of the ball rises up and becomes dominant enough to support a title run or two.

 

[Henry]

I think we all think it was a combination of things.

We just disagree on what those things were.

I hope our front office figures out the run game as well. If they can do it without Morris, I'm totally fine with that. I'm not encouraged by what I've seen and heard to date, though, and not because I care whether or not Morris is on the team.

We'll see.

 

[Neophyte]

One thing I believe is huge in this discussion that I have not seen mentioned is the loss of Bobby Turner when Gruden was hired. We kept a lot of former staff but for some reason let go of perhaps the best RB coach in the league. I have to believe Alfred suffered for that and I'm sure Jones would be further along with Turner's tutelage.

 

[redskins26]

If we were going to fit the scheme to Alfred then we should have kept the same OLine coach. We went with a different coach who while he does use the zone some is mainly a power running coach.

wether it was the scheme change or Alfred losing a step, he was off this year in 2012 first contact on average was 3.1 yards down field this year it was 2.4.

As a whole running was down this year
last year 10 teams had 2000 yards as a team only 6 this year.

As as long as we have a strong passing game it doesn't really matter if we rush for 2300 yards or 1300 yards