The Gruden Files - Year Two

[riggins44]

One of the rules in coaching is if you listen to the fans then you will be sitting with them. A coach has to do what he thinks is best for the team, regardless of fans. Has Gruden made mistakes. Absolutely and he admits it, but learned from them. Time will tell how good a coach he is.

McCloughan was brought in to set up a structured chain of command and pick the players. Gruden has control over who makes the team and plays. This is way it is supposed to be.

We don't know what the plan was with Reed and Niles Paul. It is only speculation on our part. I think Paul was named starter since we started out wanting to be a running team and Paul was projected to be the better blocker. Plus, I think we wanted to run so not to put the load on Cousins as he was an unknown and learning.

As someone else said, things do change. We can't worry about things we have no control over.

 

[Ax]

Well, you are free to believe what you want. What it looks like to me is a case of working backwards from a conclusion and assuming facts not in evidence to support it.

To me the far more likely scenario involves a coach sizing up his options and making a decision based on first-hand observation and experience.

But maybe I'm wrong and Gruden came to town already having decided the 2012 ROY was a bust, and that a mid-round rookie RB who had yet to take an NFL snap or participate in an NFL practice was a better than the incumbent starter coming off three successive 1000 yard seasons.

What did that Occam guy know, anyway?

Not to worry. I'm not foaming at the mouth or anything. Just expressing what I think I see.

And I, for one, naturally assume that we all know that none of us knows the internal dynamics of the team.

So, I think I see a coach that essentially told the world that his QB was too stupid to count to 3. Only player on the team treated that way.
And our best running back, including this season's YPC leader, getting yanked for an unproven rookie, with a fumbling problem, especially early on, for no apparent reason.

That's all.

And for anyone unaware, I too liked the Gruden hiring from day one. And predicted he would succeed here.
Even after what I considered to be one of the worst rookie head coach campaigns ever, I still supported him keeping his job, and that he would still ultimately succeed here.

So far, I'm not wrong.

Don't mean I have to like that he has a fat ass.

 

[Elephant]

Fan62 is never satisfied. When doctor said you're going to have a child, Fan said meh I was hoping for a boy.

Well...I kinda did the same thing with my daughter.

 

[TomE]

Sellers was the 'Caveman', right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes he was The Caveman but Doc also started calling Paulsen 'a caveman' on his show.... a big, scarry, hairy kind of thing. Doc also uses 'big uglies' for his favorite guys....... linemen......any linemen.

 

[Smoot Point]

We've had enough conversations about this for you to have to see that I am on the correct side of this argument, have been from the beginning.

I think self-proclaiming victory in a debate is a sure sign that you have lost the debate. Maybe you haven't, but it certainly feels that way.

I'm not sure why you seem desperate to extract a confession of faith from all the heretics. I mean, you admit you felt from the beginning that Kirk Cousins was a better QB. To me, that means you were holding illogical and unsupportable beliefs up until about 2 months ago, and now you want everyone to admit you weren't quite as crazy as people might have thought you were in 2012/2013. I'd rather trust the opinion of someone who evolves his position based on new information than someone who held firmly to a fantasy that by some turn of fate seems to have worked out, at least for now.

So, please... stop asking for people to admit they were wrong. Nobody is going to do that, certainly not while you are so zealous about extracting that confession. Besides, these are all matters of opinion that have no real consequence.

Anyway, I think there is still debate to be had on this topic... It seems like the only people that want to shutdown the debate are the ones who want everyone to admit they were wrong. Regardless, there won't be any resolution to this until we see what happens with both QBs after the next 3-5+ years.

 

[Elephant]

I think self-proclaiming victory in a debate is a sure sign that you have lost the debate. Maybe you haven't, but it certainly feels that way.

I specifically ignored the reply you had to my previous post, but you want to continue this, fine. I called what would happen to Griffin before we drafted him, injury and style of play would hinder him from becoming worth the value we placed on him when trading with St. Louis. He would be oft injured and did not have the capacity at that point to become a successful QB in any other scheme than running the ball. Which has proven true to this point. Sure he could throw a rocket, but eliminate the run threat and he was not a good QB, at all. I was correct.

I was never a Cousins over Griffin guy! I just wanted the best player at the QB position...to this point, it looks like Cousins is so I am excited for our success with him. It was never about one or the other, just the better. I was in the stands rooting hard for Robert to succeed when he had his opportunities, it has always been about this team, not any particular player so please do not lie about what I've said or wanted.

Please stop? When the subject is brought up, again...by you, I was willing to challenge you, but I grow weary of having the same fruitless discussion so I was ready to drop it, but you egged it on with more dishonesty.

You were wrong earlier in the season when you suggested Robert should be the starter, you're wrong now to suggest anything other than he has been an abysmal failure as the 2nd overall draft pick that we gave 3 first round and 1 2nd round picks to acquire. He failed here and I suggested as much before he was drafted. Those are now facts. Indisputable! Reasons why be damned, they're facts.

Now, as Mike has suggested, it really doesn't need to be belabored any longer...and he was a huge RG3 supporter. We're going to the playoffs with Cousins and we should all be happy about that. Griffin will be with another team after March 1st, but some will want to perpetuate their ideas because they think Griffin could have been better. Well, that's fine. This is the last I will be discussing Griffin with you. You were wrong, he was a failure in DC...even with his magical rookie year.

 

[McD5]

Everyone has their own opinion. It's still a crazy phenomenon this season.

On a whole, our fan base should be as happy as they were in 2012. Ecstatic. The team is exciting and we're hosting a playoff game.

They should probably be even happier this season than in 2012. We now have a guy named Scot on board. We didn't have that back then. We also have Callahan and Fewell. Huge improvements from Bruce and Raheem.

This is an amazing time for this franchise. The gloom and caveats suggest that a few individuals choose being fans of one player over being fans of the team. If you're not happy right now, you may have answered that question for yourself.

It makes no sense.

 

[Neophyte]

Sure it is. Your theory suggests a professional football coach decided, before ever seeing the players play, that certain players were better than others no matter what they showed in practice, meeting rooms, or on the field. That defies credulity.

With all due respect, brother, humans decide things about other humans without any first hand knowledge all the time. It's a common thing. And sadly, often times the impression they form before meeting a person continues to hold sway long after they actually met said person. I witness this first hand a lot and I'm guessing you do too. And many of those instances are "professional".

Did it happen here? I have no clue but the idea isn't a stretch at all.

 

[Boone]

You guys appear to be debating just fine As long as it's respectful, debate your little hearts out. But if it's not respectful, folks are going to get addressed. And as previously mentioned, we don't need anyone's help deciding when that line has been crossed. If anyone wants to discuss offline that is fine.

 

[Om]

With all due respect, brother, humans decide things about other humans without any first hand knowledge all the time. It's a common thing. And sadly, often the times the impression they form before meeting a person continues to hold sway long after they actually met said person. I witness this first hand a lot and I'm guessing you do too. And many of those instances are "professional".

Did it happen here? I have no clue but the idea isn't a stretch at all.

Again, anything is possible. But in this particular case there is no evidence at all that what is being suggested---that Gruden made up his mind on Robert and Morris before ever seeing them in person---actually happened. None. There is only supposition and interpretation.

I'll stick with common sense on this one. The head coach assessed the players having had a chance to assess them, and made a decision based on that assessment.

Does that not seem more credible than the alternative?

 

[Boone]

With all due respect, brother, humans decide things about other humans without any first hand knowledge all the time. It's a common thing. And sadly, often the times the impression they form before meeting a person continues to hold sway long after they actually met said person. I witness this first hand a lot and I'm guessing you do too. And many of those instances are "professional".

Did it happen here? I have no clue but the idea isn't a stretch at all.

This is a sucker's choice argument (not yours, the general argument). When it comes to who plays and who doesn't, 'favoritism' is a highly loaded term. I just took a leadership job with multiple lower level leaders. I 'favor' several of them. They are the ones who lead by example, say and model the right things, are positive, unselfish, and yes, part of that equation is even that they share my world view. There are others who supposedly are equal in terms of position. They don't lead by example. They gripe behind the scenes. They do the bare minimum. Or in some cases, they just don't have the character traits or talents requisite for the role in the first place. They may not agree with where I see us going as a team. I don't 'favor' them. Those folks will change or move on.

That's not in any way to imply that any of the players who supposedly haven't been given a fair chance or who somehow have been biased against are bad guys, poor teammates, anything like that. But we form judgments every day about people we interact with. Some of those may be personality-based, but they may also include value systems, compatibility, communication style, work ethic, commitment level-based, there are hundreds of little things that go into a human's estimation of who and who not to hitch their wagon to in life - be it at home, at play, or at work. I think it's the same on an NFL football team.

So the 'suckers' choice in this discussion (in my opinion) is that either Gruden made all the right decisions based on play alone, or he is horribly biased based on selfish, unfair criteria. Neither of those are likely true. So why are we arguing as if they are?

 

[redskins26]

Well, you are free to believe what you want. What it looks like to me is a case of working backwards from a conclusion and assuming facts not in evidence to support it.

To me the far more likely scenario involves a coach sizing up his options and making a decision based on first-hand observation and experience.

But maybe I'm wrong and Gruden came to town already having decided the 2012 ROY was a bust, and that a mid-round rookie RB who had yet to take an NFL snap or participate in an NFL practice was a better than the incumbent starter coming off three successive 1000 yard seasons.

What did that Occam guy know, anyway?

I think platooning the running backs is going to be done by more I believe it helped us where we had 3 different kinds of RBs to help out. Alfred still had almost 800 yards in a down year for all running backs which is still good

 

[MikeSr619]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

How about you stand there in your ****oty burgundy uniform and show me some ****ing common courtesy. I think I've earned it!

 

[Goaldeje]

I think platooning the running backs is going to be done by more I believe it helped us where we had 3 different kinds of RBs to help out. Alfred still had almost 800 yards in a down year for all running backs which is still good

The bulk of those 800 yards came when he wasn't timesharing. AND, to my eyes, he looked more effective when he wasn't timesharing.

As Ax has pointed out, Morris's time was cut in favor of a rookie with fumbling problems. Made no sense to me then, doesn't make any sense to me now. After Morris looked good, I hear the plan is to go back to the timeshare situation this weekend, which is... interesting.

 

[MikeSr619]

We've never *moderated* based on POV. We do occasionally (and I think even rarely would be accurate) moderate when someone gets especially snarky, rude, or aggressive. We don't need any help figuring out when to moderate and when not to. And if we ever make mistakes in yours or anyone else's estimation, that's obviously your right to express.

I moderated back in my college days...everyone was doing it and I needed the money. But let me tell you something, you're never the same man again. Once you've had to look a man in the eyes while moderating him you just can't return to where you were. There's no going home then, brother.

Moderating....not even once.

 

[ntotoro]

I think I just moderated...

 

[Chris]

Jones is a rookie back with fumbling issues. So was a guy named Larry Brown. Lombardi fixed Brown, let's see if the next Lombardi can can do the same with Jones.

(Gawd, I just dated myself.)

 

[Goaldeje]

(Gawd, I just dated myself.)

Is that like moderating yourself?

 

[MikeSr619]

Morris has been getting hit behind the LOS before he can get started at times - truth

Morris is hitting the holes softer - truth

Morris is also turning his back to holes when he used to lower his head and drive for more yards - truth

the blocking from our OL has been suspect at best - truth

I don't really put much of this on Gruden himself except to say he needs to pick one RB and let them have the game or at least fail (like when Jones fumbles and gets pulled) before you put the next guy in. Both of these backs seem to be the kind that need a lot of carries to get things going and a good rhythm up. Id just like to see us get something going back there with anyone. I have a favor for Morris (obviously) but now I just want to see ANY sort of run game happen!

 

[stevenaa]

All this ancillary crap means nothing. We won the division and have a home game that is winnable. A game we should win. How freaking exciting is that? Things have improved in so many ways. Lets put aside the differences and enjoy a winning season. Were already a man down and I enjoy Tr1's opinions. Lets kick some Green Bay ass. Hail To the Redskins.