The Gruden Files - Year Two

[Knightingale]

Gruden is losing ground IMO. The Panthers are a better team, but this wasn't about getting beat by a better team. He continues to field a flat team in big games and is showing a lack of creativity in his scheme to counter the problems in the run game. If this is all we get the rest of the year, we'll be in for a change.

Not sure I agree.

The two biggest games we've had so far (debatable I know but here we go...) were the Tampa Bay game and the Saints game last week.

Both were games we SHOULD have won and needed to win. Against Tampa the team came out after halftime and showed huge competitive fire. Biggest comeback in Skins history. They could have rolled over and died.
Last week against the Saints was another must win. It was a team considered inferior and we were at home. We had to win that one and again the team showed fight and spirit.

This week was against a team on the run to the Superbowl, who are leagues better than us and nobody really expected us to win. This was never a big game really for us. It could have been. If we'd have won it would have been huge, but in terms of where we currently are it wasn't. Factor in the fact that the Giants were on a Bye this week, the Eagles lost and the Boys were so far out of touch that it didn't really matter if they won and you see that this game meant very little.

You could argue that this game was about the division and the chance to steal a game on the Giants. But honestly I kind believe that the team thought they had a slim chance to steal it and for the first few mins when it was 14-14 I think they were fired up and all in. But after things started to break badly I think their minds went to a different place. The "Well we weren't supposed to win here anyway" place. Not a good place for a football team and I think that's why you see some of the players getting chippy. It's a culture change and will take a while. We've been losers for 25 years, you can't turn that around in a few months.

Now... if they come out NEXT week flat in what IS a crucial game against a divisional opponent that we NEED to beat and we're at HOME. Then we're in trouble. I think next week is the barometer.

I'm not sure how much any coach could do in that regard. Fairytales rarely happen in real sports. I still think this team is heading in a direction I like, coaching included. We're gonna get bumps in the road, but I'm ready for that.

But ask me the same thing this time next year and if we're not an improved team by then I may have a different answer.

 

[Knightingale]

This bothered me the most yesterday. It's really the first game that the team looked disinterested after being down big. In other games this year, they continued to fight to the end. Not yesterday. And the first sign was the way they came out of the locker room. And the next series and sack/fumble that leads to a TD. It was actually a predictable outcome on the series based on how the team came out of the half. I don't know what happens in the locker room, but other than the Bucs game, the team doesn't play well in that 3rd quarter.


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Not just the Buccs game Kel. We destroyed the Saints and we almost had the Falcons too. And the Eagles game we came back at the end to win. We've shown plenty of fight.

Difference in this game (as I said above) is that we were never really supposed to win it. I think psychologically that's in the back of the players minds. This game is getting out of hand but it doesn't matter. We're not supposed to win anyway so mentally they've already moved on and just want to get the game over with.

 

[MikeSr619]

Psychologically the coach should be in their heads trying to keep them from not thinking of that.

Gruden looks as lost as he does clueless when we start to lose. I remember when cowher was screwed by the refs he shoved a copy of the rule down the refs shirt. It doesn't need to be that drastic...but at least something!!

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[Smoot Point]

While I'm still in the "Fire Gruden" camp, it comes down to the next two games for me... If they can turn this around and defeat the Giants & Cowboys at home, that would secure a 6 win season and 1st place in the division (at least until the next week). It would be a positive step toward competitive football and while I still think he sucks, I'd be willing to give him one more year to prove me wrong all over again. However, I wouldn't be upset if the Redskins fired him if we went 6-10...

 

[MikeSr619]

At this point the wins don't even matter as much as I thought they would. He has no connection or control of the team.

He's good for media soundbites, abandoning the run, covering for cousins, and that is about it. Even if we beat the bums and gnats we still have the same issues we've had since last year.

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[stevenaa]

Not sure I agree.

The two biggest games we've had so far (debatable I know but here we go...) were the Tampa Bay game and the Saints game last week.

Both were games we SHOULD have won and needed to win. Against Tampa the team came out after halftime and showed huge competitive fire. Biggest comeback in Skins history. They could have rolled over and died.
Last week against the Saints was another must win. It was a team considered inferior and we were at home. We had to win that one and again the team showed fight and spirit.

This week was against a team on the run to the Superbowl, who are leagues better than us and nobody really expected us to win. This was never a big game really for us. It could have been. If we'd have won it would have been huge, but in terms of where we currently are it wasn't. Factor in the fact that the Giants were on a Bye this week, the Eagles lost and the Boys were so far out of touch that it didn't really matter if they won and you see that this game meant very little.

You could argue that this game was about the division and the chance to steal a game on the Giants. But honestly I kind believe that the team thought they had a slim chance to steal it and for the first few mins when it was 14-14 I think they were fired up and all in. But after things started to break badly I think their minds went to a different place. The "Well we weren't supposed to win here anyway" place. Not a good place for a football team and I think that's why you see some of the players getting chippy. It's a culture change and will take a while. We've been losers for 25 years, you can't turn that around in a few months.

Now... if they come out NEXT week flat in what IS a crucial game against a divisional opponent that we NEED to beat and we're at HOME. Then we're in trouble. I think next week is the barometer.

I'm not sure how much any coach could do in that regard. Fairytales rarely happen in real sports. I still think this team is heading in a direction I like, coaching included. We're gonna get bumps in the road, but I'm ready for that.

But ask me the same thing this time next year and if we're not an improved team by then I may have a different answer.

I've said repeatedly that I think Gruden has shown some growth and there have been improvements. Notably winning games they should win. But, there hasn't been any real improvement against good teams. I'm not talking about beating better teams. I'm talking about not making constant mistakes and scheming to reduce the impact of some of the teams deficiencies. I'm not in the fire him camp at all, and want to see what he does the rest of the year. But, to me, it's critical we start seeing improvement in games we aren't supposed to win.

 

[Henry]

Gruden should have to walk home and think about what a shitty coach he is.

I had to give this a like just because it literally made me laugh out loud.

 

[Henry]

I've said repeatedly that I think Gruden has shown some growth and there have been improvements. Notably winning games they should win. But, there hasn't been any real improvement against good teams. I'm not talking about beating better teams. I'm talking about not making constant mistakes and scheming to reduce the impact of some of the teams deficiencies. I'm not in the fire him camp at all, and want to see what he does the rest of the year. But, to me, it's critical we start seeing improvement in games we aren't supposed to win.

This is pretty much exactly where I am. Beating bad teams is better than losing to them, and in that respect we've shown some improvement, but collapsing against good teams just can't keep happening. This is the fourth time the team has simply rolled over and died against a decent team, and every time we hear 'well, it was against a good team.'

That's not good enough. So far the only 'winning' team we have actually been remotely competitive against was Atlanta, and they've gone 1-4 since they played us. Including Atlanta, we've played three teams with a winning record. We've been blown out four times.

 

[Knightingale]

This is pretty much exactly where I am. Beating bad teams is better than losing to them, and in that respect we've shown some improvement, but collapsing against good teams just can't keep happening. This is the fourth time the team has simply rolled over and died against a decent team, and every time we hear 'well, it was against a good team.'

That's not good enough. So far the only 'winning' team we have actually been remotely competitive against was Atlanta, and they've gone 1-4 since they played us. Including Atlanta, we've played three teams with a winning record. We've been blown out four times.

Agree

As I've said before I'm happy with this team taking Baby Steps towards being great again. The first step for me was that we showed last week.

The Tampa Bay game was a code red game where we should have beaten them handily. (Although in hindsight they looked pretty handy this week against the Beagles!) We only just scraped that game with an epic comeback.
Next game we had that was similar was the Saints game and we learnt from the Buccs game and we destroyed them.

I'd say our next step is to start by beating the teams that we should who are close to us in ability and important and are at home. That's why I think the giants game is crucial.

We also need to learn to win on the road against crappy or mediocre teams.

Winning against the cream of the crop (a la New England and Carolina) is the final step in that progression. I would have like us to stay close to them, but at the end of the day I didn't expect us to be at that level yet.

I still believe that Gruden and co have the team heading in the right direction and I'm not one to overreact to stumbles on the road. I believe he's still learning as a coach. Besides I've no idea who we'd replace him with that would be any better at this point.

I'm happy to give him another year. This time next year I'd like to see us winning road games regularly against our peers or worse, and starting to give some scares to those teams above us in the rankings. If we can get to that next year as a stepping stone to playoffs in 2017/18 I'd be happy.

Personally I think the state of the NFC East and the fact that as bad as we are we're still in contention has raised expectation unrealistically somewhat. But this situation is less about how good we are and more about how bad the Boyz, the Beagles and the Bryants are. If Romo hadn't got injured and if the Giants hadn't let some games slip away and NY and Dallas were streaking ahead in the division then I don't think this would be as much of a conversation. But right now we're staring a gift horse in the mouth a little bit.

 

[fansince62]

hmmmm.

I'm hoping McL is quietly working his contacts to find the next "up and coming" coach. get his guy in there sooner rather than later. barring that discovery, probably best to stick with Gruden at least another year. Gruden, IMO, is a quality OC who is not and will not be HC material. call it presence, leadership, whatever....I'm not seeing it. I think he is play-off capable in a weak NFCE year in and year out, but not championship material. the better HCs will beat his teams IMO - he's an "as designed" kinda thinker.

 

[Henry]

Knight, that's a perfectly reasonable take and I don't begrudge you your optimism. My slightly more critical take is that when you are 4-12, you shouldn't be making baby steps.

Small steps are acceptable when going from 10-6 to 12-4.

4-12 to 5-11 to 6-10 is rather pointless. At this level progress is 'utterly crappy' to 'mediocre' to 'above average'. Or so. We seem to have progressed from 'utterly crappy' to, possibly, 'just plain crappy'. What do we have, six games left? If we split them I'll be encouraged. The next two games should be interesting. Gotta win one of them.

'Mediocre' is within reach. We just gotta grab it.

 

[Henry]

Let me also add that I'm not even thinking about winning the division. I seriously doubt we'll win the division and if we do it will probably because we have the dubious honor of joining the Seahawks as the only team to win their division with a losing record. No thanks.

Just be better. Be better. For the love of God, stop sucking. That's ALL I want this season.

We do that and the playoffs will come in due time.

 

[MikeSr619]

Can we just get a 2 game winning streak?

I would be really happy to see something even as simple as that.

 

[Boone]

I think those that argue 'let's not overreact to a big win against a struggling team' are absolutely right.

And I'm thinking 'let's not overreact to a big drubbing at the hands of one of the best teams in the league' may have equal merit.


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[Henry]

I think those that argue 'let's not overreact to a big win against a struggling team' are absolutely right.

And I'm thinking 'let's not overreact to a big drubbing at the hands of one of the best teams in the league' may have equal merit.

To be fair, I was overreacting before we even played the game.

This is what I said:

I don't think we win this week, but I would be encouraged by being a tough out. A bad team would have a let-down game this week. I think avoiding that, even in a loss, would be something.

If we get blown out, not sure how much progress we can truly say we've made to this point.

Pretty sure that's what I've been saying today following said blow-out. Shrug.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I think those that argue 'let's not overreact to a big win against a struggling team' are absolutely right.

And I'm thinking 'let's not overreact to a big drubbing at the hands of one of the best teams in the league' may have equal merit.


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That's too logical for most. Too many have deeply entrenched positions based on emotion. To rightly think logically about the situation would be an admission that their position is too extreme. I think the last two weeks prove that. Lots of overreactions last week followed by more overreaction this week. Same act, only the actors have changed positions.


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[Boone]

My bottom line is that we are a rebuilding team with many new coaches and a 2nd year head coach trying to build a winning team and culture. We've had some pretty key injuries which hasn't helped and although we've added talent we are still a long way from being a roster like those consistent winners are fielding.

We had some bad luck and bad calls yesterday but the short version is a more talented more experienced team kicked our ass.

I was hoping we could give them a good fight too but I don't think the loss teaches us anything we didn't already know.


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[Henry]

I was hoping we could give them a good fight too but I don't think the loss teaches us anything we didn't already know.

I agree with this, but I think maybe what you know and what I know are different things.

 

[Boone]

I doubt they differ to the extreme Henry, but since I own a fan site I do try to keep a tiny level of hope and optimism on life support. Even when I may not entirely buy into it myself. It's funny to me that no one seems to get that.


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[Smoot Point]

OK, this is more about Joe Barry... but, I assume Jay Gruden was involved in hiring Joe Barry over someone like... errr... Wade Phillips.

In 2014, under Jim Haslett, the Redskins were tied for 31st in YPA (8.2) through the air and 12th in YPC (4.1) on the ground.
In 2015, under Joe Barry, the Redskins are tied for 24th in YPA (7.7) through the air and 30th in YPC (4.8) on the ground.

In 2014, the Redskins gave up 249.4 YPG through the air and 107.6 YPG on the ground.
In 2015, the Redskins give up 234.1 YPG through the air and and 136 YPG on the ground.

The only thing good about Joe Barry is that he isn't Jim Haslett...