Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

Out of curiosity I looked up Joe Montana's career TPA: 7.5. It took him til year three to exceed 6.6. I've never been one to put much stock in YPA--it fails to take into account the style of offense, in this case pretty classic ball-control WCO stuff, surrounding talent, etc.

I've seen Kirk go downfield enough to know he can ... he's no Daryl Lamonica, but within the context of a functioning ball-control offense, I don't see him as being fatally limited by inability to threaten a D over the top.
 
I do see improvement - lots of it - on the current team. I guess I'm in the tiny minority on that, but I think we're improved across the board and at QB as well. And I think had we had even the usual level of injuries this year, the improvements would be even more apparent. Improvements don't automatically equate to lots more wins, but we have come back twice to win on end of game drives and almost did against one of the hottest teams in the league in OT. I also think that says something different about Cousins than some of the other 'just guys' we've seen. Ultimately you are right - the only grade that matters is wins.

John, I personally see a lot of improvement this year. I am very encouraged by what Scot is building and think we are on the right track.

I'll tell you, that INT Cousins had against the Jets by Revis was a heartbreaker for me. I thought Kirk had honestly turned the corner and might start to gain consistency. The Jets are a really good team, and have an outstanding defense, and I honestly wasn't expecting a win, or even a very close game to be honest. But that INT was just... dreadful. It was terrible. One of the worst choices I've seen a QB make in a long time. It was incredibly discouraging, because what I saw was a QB who defaulted to a poor decision. I may be putting too much weight on one play, but that play was just awful.

His play was up and down all season, but IMO, trending up to that point. And God knows, his play last week for 2.5 Qs was amazing. If that pick proves to be the exception and not the norm, I can get back onboard the Cousin-mobile.

But that pick was God-awful.
 
I know you will NEVER admit this, but we were all screaming last year that the reason Griffin couldn't throw downfield was because the OLine was horrific and he didn't have time. You know, the line Scot immediately overhauled despite your protestations that it was one of the top lines in the league?

There's a lot that people can take from the chart. As you can see, this is the last 16 games. Cousins played 9 of those behind that same line that you thought was so bad. Both had time. One just held onto the ball far too long and took sacks.

Some of those games included Desean and Jordan Reed, and some didn't.

But if people have learned anything at all, it's that teams can win games with O-lines far worse than ours ever was. Seattle is on an NFL worst in history O-line pace this year. That doesn't stop them.

Scot's prior gigs show an emphasis on defense, primarily. I think we'll see the same here. D-line and secondary first.
 
Our OL was horrific for Griffin, but I think it's a little bit of an overstatement to conclude the reason Cousins is having better luck in many ways is due to the 'overhauled line' (you mean the one with Josh Leribeus starting at center?). It's a patchwork line and it's a serious achievement that they are playing the way they are given all the injuries there. A large part of why Cousins may be (to the extent he is) playing better is that he is getting rid of the ball decisively. I don't know if getting sacked repeatedly counts in 'YPA' but that would explain in and of itself why Cousins has a better one.
 
So, he's got one year to be compared to Montana? Seems like a lot more than just fixing the shit he does now.
 
Our OL was horrific for Griffin, but I think it's a little bit of an overstatement to conclude the reason Cousins is having better luck in many ways is due to the 'overhauled line' (you mean the one with Josh Leribeus starting at center?). It's a patchwork line and it's a serious achievement that they are playing the way they are given all the injuries there. A large part of why Cousins may be (to the extent he is) playing better is that he is getting rid of the ball decisively. I don't know if getting sacked repeatedly counts in 'YPA' but that would explain in and of itself why Cousins has a better one.

I don't think there's any question Cousins is more decisive and that is of great benefit for him. But McD and others constantly want to overlook the effect of having Turns-Tyler on the OLine. The OLine last year was horrific. Period. It's better this year, patchwork or not.
 
Glad you did it Om, I looked over the stats for Montana as well and saw similar.
Just couldn't bring myself to comment overtly here thinking about 'how the game has changed' since then and any relevance involved.
WCO and all of it's permutations still has relevance I suppose and that's one of the points Cooley has been harping on recently and Kirk's acumen in working within it.
 
If Peyton or Brady put that identical drive together, people are nodding and saying "well, that's what HOF'ers do." Just because Kirk is not that guy, and likely never will be, doesn't detract from what was a damn fine performance in a clutch, game-winning drive opportunity over the length of the field.

I think they'd also be saying: How could the Bucs give Manning/Brady that much time and that many open receivers?

We need to temper expectations... Cousins delivered, after not delivering for a half, against a very bad defense... I think the Saints might be just as incompetent on defense... Bears are up/down, but are learning a new system under Fangio & have had one of the tougher schedules against QBs (Rodgers, Palmer, Wilson, Carr, & Stafford)... They will be battle tested when we play them.

Right now, my thoughts on our remaining schedule looks like this:

@Patriots - Tough match, good defense... If Cousins looks professional, can lead a few TD drives and help the offense score more than 24 points while not making huge mistakes... I'll take that as a win (even if we get crushed).

Saints - This game is at home... We have to ball out here and Cousins is going against one of the worst pass defenses in the league. This game might seem tough, but it should be a win against a team that doesn't travel all that well. They are currently 1-3 on the road and were pretty much blown out a few of those games. We HAVE to win, and I would like to say we win convincingly for me to be positive about Cousins and the team.

@Panthers - This is one of the top defenses in just about every category. If Cousins helps us score 2 long TD drives on offense, I'll consider that a positive game from him, even if he makes a few mistakes (depending on the nature of the mistake).

Giants - We have to beat the Giants and get the monkey off our back. This is a tough task. Cousins has had some horrific games here. I don't think there is a way I can feel positive about Cousins if he can't be division opponents in big games. We have to win here with him making few mistakes.

Cowboys - This is a primetime game... As I stated, RGIII & McCoy have both beaten the Cowboys in primetime games... RGIII more than once... It's kind of ironic now, but remember the game RGIII reached over to Romo & said "You're still a good quarterback..."? Anyway, these are the types of games that Cousins has to prove he can win. I'll take either a win vs the Giants or the Cowboys here and feel like he's making progress. If we lose both, he can't be our QB another day.

@Bears - I'll probably have already formed my opinion about Kirk Cousins at this point... I think the Bears will be ready for us and this will be a tough game. I don't expect much here. If he plays well with few mistakes, that will be a positive sign. It's a road game, and the Bears will have already run much of a tough gauntlet of games against elite QBs. Cousins doesn't have to be super impressive for me to feel positive.

Bills - Who knows what the Bills will bring to town? I have zero expectations... If we win, I'll feel positive. If we lose, I'll just think the "good" Bills showed up. If Cousins makes a bunch of gaffes and it costs us the game, I'll have problems with him.

@Eagles - It won't surprise me if we lose this game & Cousins looks mediocre. If he lost to both the Giants & the Cowboys earlier, it'll take more than sweeping the Eagles for me to be happy with him. However, I can forgive a loss if we still have .500 within the division in reach.

@Cowboys - this game may have nothing riding on it... I'll probably have already formed by opinion... I'd hope if he lost to the Cowboys in DC earlier in the year, he can win in Dallas... Again, Robert & Colt have both won in Dallas on national tv... he needs to prove he can do the same.
 
I do see improvement - lots of it - on the current team. I guess I'm in the tiny minority on that, but I think we're improved across the board and at QB as well. And I think had we had even the usual level of injuries this year, the improvements would be even more apparent. Improvements don't automatically equate to lots more wins, but we have come back twice to win on end of game drives and almost did against one of the hottest teams in the league in OT. I also think that says something different about Cousins than some of the other 'just guys' we've seen. Ultimately you are right - the only grade that matters is wins.


Very much in agreement.

I'm not looking for wins at this point. Just a sense that things are heading in the right direction.

It was a good win on Sunday.... but...

I'm very much braced for the next four or five games cause things are gonna get tough.'

(I may have all these out of order so apologies - and sorry if I bring you guys down!)

Patriots is almost a guaranteed loss.
Panthers is also an almost certain loss.
Giants at Home is possible win. The only reason I think it's a possible win is that we're at home.
Saints is a fifty/fifty game. I think they're better than us.
Dallas comes to Fedex, possible Win, depending if they get Romo back.

I think at BEST we go 2-3 over these games.
Realistically I think we're 1-4 and end up with a record of 4-7 by the time we're done there.

But as long as we perform and fight that's what I'm looking for. Build a base for 2016. It's 2016 and 17 that I expect to get wins.
 
Tom, I knew invoking Montana risked the kind of response Mike had, but the truth is I just wanted to see what arguably the greatest WCO QB ever did in terms of YPA. It's a ball control offense Kirk has been running which asks him to do exactly what he's been doing--taking what the D gives, completing balls underneath, moving the chains, trying to get his guys set up for YAC. Which is how Montana got his head sent to Canton. That's all I was looking at.

Maybe a better comparison would have been to the best of today's game. Brady won a SB last year with a 7.1 YPA.

Guess all I'm saying on this one is that YPA is a crappy stat without a lot of context.
 
The greatest WCO QB....with the greatest head coach of the WCO lol

Jay Gruden aint no Bill Walsh no matter how we try to spin that. Heck, he ain't even Joe Walsh!!
 
Meanwhile ... has anyone noticed how much better Kirk has been at home than on the road?

Someone oughta look into that. :beatnik:
 
Meanwhile ... has anyone noticed how much better Kirk has been at home than on the road?

Someone oughta look into that. :beatnik:

He's certainly more comfortable at home.

I think that that's the next big milestone he needs to overcome. Big road win. New England anyone?
 
Attaboy Mike...............:D

Genius Coach and a HOF QB with almost the same physical attributes, winning a bunch.

Hard to believe anyone would even try to emulate the same thing here, just need to get the right pieces in place and we're on our way.
 
Attaboy Mike...............:D

Genius Coach and a HOF QB with almost the same physical attributes, winning a bunch.

Hard to believe anyone would even try to emulate the same thing here, just need to get the right pieces in place and we're on our way.


sarcasm duly noted and appreciated.

you trying to create walsh and montana out of gruden and cousins is like me trying to put a loud muffler on my mazda and call it a GTO.

that was lightning in a bottle and a dynasty right there. Montana, Craig, Rathman, Taylor, Rice...and some chumps on defense. one of who cut his finger off to be able to play the next game ;-)
 
you trying to create walsh and montana out of gruden and cousins is like me trying to put a loud muffler on my mazda and call it a GTO.

You're right...

You'd probably need the fancy badge to put on the back too. :)

Glad I could help. ;P
 


and it works because Matthew is a Skins fan!
 
Cousins has improved in many areas. No reason he won't continue to improve. It's about his mental consistency to me. If he can get that figured out, he can be better than just a serviceable QB. He's had one seasons worth of starts. His time on the bench seems to have been valuable in the mental understanding of the game, but there's no substitute for in game experience. My gut says he's probably not a long term solution, but I won't really 'know' that until the end of the year. What I do know is that I'm gonna enjoy the heck out of any game like this. There's not a QB in the league that hasn't had crappy play in a game, only to turn it around. That comeback was special. It's laughable that many want to attach caveats to it. I watch other games and see elite QB's make throws and have to giggle thinking about how some would react if Kirk made the same throw. My Cowboy fan father in-law texts me after the game on how it looks like we finally found a real QB. We'll see about that. If he can consistently be good Kirk, good things can happen.
 
But if people have learned anything at all, it's that teams can win games with O-lines far worse than ours ever was. Seattle is on an NFL worst in history O-line pace this year. That doesn't stop them.

Pretty bad example being they win because they have a mobile QB, and can get away with less then perfect pass protection. Just like the line we've had up until this season, the one meant to have a mobile QB behind it.
 
Kirk.
Cousins.
Thread.
Just.
Sayin'
 

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