Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

tr1 said:
Hey, El, why the hate on Griffin. He still wears B&G.
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Yeah, I'm hatin. You're the one who is gleefully admonishing Kirk Cousins.

Pot...meet kettle.
 
And again, you fail to answer the question.

How is it one knows what to do and the other doesn't?
 
tr1 said:
EDIT: BTW, I guess some of us feel the 2012 ROY probably should be given a better shot at the job than a 6th rounder whose entire high school, college and pro career is highlighted by the high number of INTs.
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Yup, you're not advocating for Robert.

FFS man, he sucks! If he was incapable opf rushing for 800 yards his rookie season, he wouldn't have been ROY. Take away the run, he sucks. Well, injuries and rule changes have taken away the run, he sucks.

Kirk may not be the answer, sure doesn't look like it. But you're living in history...keep living in that ROY season.
 
cmon DP. get off it. "knowing" is an intellectual capability. you suggesting our non-white, graduate in 3 years former starting QB has some mental limitations? or do you mean to suggest that Griffin doesn't execute to the consistency of...say....the pick machine?

let's just assume what you MEAN to say is that you have a set of criteria....that at least qualitatively.....Griffen hasn't performed to with the consistency of Cousins in actual games. that's fine. doesn't change the fact that Cousins has a history also. I have my own criteria - and Cousins - over 4 years - is lacking in my estimation.

not sure why folks are wrapped around the axel when individuals chose to disagree on a given player's abilities and potential. can't speak for others....but group think has never been my thing.
 
DieselPwr44 said:
TR1, a question.

Both Cousins and Griffin have been with Jay the same amount of time, correct?

How is it that Cousins knows the offense and his line calls and Robert can't even get his three and five step drops right?

I've asked this before and didn't get much of an explanation: Where does Robert's personal responsibility lie and where does the coaches start?.
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Simply put, Cousins came from a pro style system as a traditional drop back passer. Griffin a straight up option system. Cousins had a 4 year head start. It's kind of funny, but people make it sound like Griffin never dropped back in his first season. Also, if you go back to 12 and look at the game film, Griffin did just fine with 3 and 5 step drops, and reading defenses. Between injuries, system, then coaching change, he was doomed...... and has stunk it up ever since.

We drafted a race horse, and tied him to a vegetable cart.
 
fansince62 said:
cmon DP. get off it. "knowing" is an intellectual capability. you suggesting our non-white, graduate in 3 years former starting QB has some mental limitations? or do you mean to suggest that Griffin doesn't execute to the consistency of...say....the pick machine?

let's just assume what you MEAN to say is that you have a set of criteria....that at least qualitatively.....Griffen hasn't performed to with the consistency of Cousins in actual games. that's fine. doesn't change the fact that Cousins has a history also. I have my own criteria - and Cousins - over 4 years - is lacking in my estimation.

not sure why folks are wrapped around the axel when individuals chose to disagree on a given player's abilities and potential. can't speak for others....but group think has never been my thing.
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Yet you fall in with the group that suggests Griffin still can succeed in this league. I do believe there is plenty of criteria to suggest otherwise. But yeah, I will hedge my bet on "supposed" potential...sure.
 
fansince62 said:
cmon DP. get off it. "knowing" is an intellectual capability. you suggesting our non-white, graduate in 3 years former starting QB has some mental limitations? or do you mean to suggest that Griffin doesn't execute to the consistency of...say....the pick machine? .
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Let's not bring anything about race in here and muddy the water, like you seem to be attempting to here.

How is it that one Qb gets his line calls and drops straight and the other doesn't?

Both are smart men. Both are great athletes in their own way.

Is it "want to"?

Is it one has contempt for the staff and doesn't care and the other does?

You say Kirk should perform better because it's year four but yet, that doesn't apply to Robert because it's everybody else's fault.

I'm just asking...I'd like to know why the double standard?
 
DieselPwr44 said:
Let's not bring anything about race in here and muddy the water, like you seem to be attempting to here.

How is it that one Qb gets his line calls and drops straight and the other doesn't?

Both are smart men. Both are great athletes in their own way.

Is it "want to"?

Is it one has contempt for the staff and doesn't care and the other does?

You say Kirk should perform better because it's year four but yet, that doesn't apply to Robert because it's everybody else's fault.

I'm just asking...I'd like to know why the double standard?
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not exactly. maneuvering you to be more accurate with the language you apply. you used the term "know." ever met someone, or had a kid, who was brilliant but a poor test taker? not saying this is Griffen...just saying one had best be careful to distinguish "knowing" from "doing". when "knowing" is raised, the audience is forced to reflect on what, exactly, is meant.

DP.....strawmen are not attractive approaches to argument. I do believe I have made the effort to recognize in multiple posts that Griffen has had performance issues that other, more obsessive personalities, dwell on post after post. in my mind....the double standard comes when the same critical eye is cast on another player but the formula for acceptable points-of-view suddenly changes. or, not speaking to you, what we really "know" is under the covers....someone "is more knowledgable"...just ask em!
 
Back to the same ol accusations and name calling that we were at yesterday.
 
Sure would like this thread to get back to the basics on tracking Kirk's development without bringing in RGIII comparisons and Gruden's decision making. I realize some of that is intertwined, but there are other threads for some of this.

Personally, I realize I'm usually an optimist. I was an optimist hearing about Robert coming into the season, but have some questions of how his preseason fall happened. That should probably belongs in the Gruden thread.

I'm also an optimist about Kirk. I like the guy, I root for him, and I want nothing but the best for him and the team. He doesn't have as many starts as others, but he is also entering his fourth year. So, regardless of starts, I have a certain expectation on a 4th year player versus a 1st year player. He has shown me glimpses of being a good QB that manages the game and makes plays when needed. He has never shown me where he can take over the game. So, with this background in mind, I only look for him to be a guy that can steer the ship without sinking it. I would love for him to exceed those expectations.

He's been middle of the road so far. 3 out of 4 of the interceptions I pin on him. That still continues to be his Achilles heel in my opinion. He had a bad game this week. I won't write him off for one bad game as many of the great ones have bad games and they bounce back. But I did say in chat, I'm beginning to wonder if he is who we think he is. I would love for him to prove me wrong.
 
Elephant said:
No, he tied himself to the cart. That's why you don't draft a racehorse to play QB.
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So, you're saying that Griffin has designed the offensive schemes, and drew up the plays from years 2, 3, and 4 that didn't fit his skill set. Last I checked, for 3 seasons coaching has demanded Griffin be something he isn't, a conventional QB, not Griffin.
 
How many days before we play again and Kirk gets to add a data point ... six?

Figure you guys have plenty of time to beat this horse into powder.
 
Yep. I told him that last week but he didn't listen. And look what happened.
 
Om said:
How many days before we play again and Kirk gets to add a data point ... six?

Figure you guys have plenty of time to beat this horse into powder.
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and how many days before people recognize data points are already there?

- accuracy issues

- ability to function under pressure

- arm strength

He's a very capable backup. I get it that he may be the best of what we have on the roster.
 
Cousins now has just as many starts under Gruden as Griffin did. Is that not enough data?
 
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