MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
Yet we talk about getting rid of the ball and time in the pocket along with them every single thread. If we can use it against him we can use it for him as well, right?
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RG3 Development Tracker 2015
- Thread starter Om
- Start date
You don't have to imagine it. Look at the tape. Or read stuff others post. This was a couple pages ago:
Second possession:
1st and 10. Under center. Seven step drop, play action, plants, throws on time. No pressure. Lion defender bats pass down at LOS.
And the "why no roll-outs?" thing has been addressed by Keim and Cooley, in actual football terms, even though they are both clearly anti-Robert and so probably made it all up.
At some point, discussions are furthered when all parties take the time to hear what others are saying. Else it's just monologuing.
Second possession:
1st and 10. Under center. Seven step drop, play action, plants, throws on time. No pressure. Lion defender bats pass down at LOS.
And the "why no roll-outs?" thing has been addressed by Keim and Cooley, in actual football terms, even though they are both clearly anti-Robert and so probably made it all up.
At some point, discussions are furthered when all parties take the time to hear what others are saying. Else it's just monologuing.
I agree most have made up their minds, tr1. I guess it's the basis upon which some seem to have formed those opinions I have an issue with. But, that's my problem, not anyone else's. 
On the last part, 100% in accord.
On the last part, 100% in accord.
Ax
Guest
Well, I certainly haven't made up my mind as to what is going to happen.
I have made up my mind, that until I see what transpires early in the regular season, I will not close the book on Robert. But I've also made up my mind that about 4 games is all I'll need, at the most, to make a decision.
I've made up my mind that I don't give a damn what any reporter says. I'll trust what I see, or think I see, completely.
I've made up my mind that Robert is not currently Gruden's favorite QB. But I completely dismiss there is a conscious effort on his part to aid in his failure.
I have made up my mind, that until I see what transpires early in the regular season, I will not close the book on Robert. But I've also made up my mind that about 4 games is all I'll need, at the most, to make a decision.
I've made up my mind that I don't give a damn what any reporter says. I'll trust what I see, or think I see, completely.
I've made up my mind that Robert is not currently Gruden's favorite QB. But I completely dismiss there is a conscious effort on his part to aid in his failure.
fansince62
Guest
eh...the whole thing has gotten tiresome and boring.
My problem with keim...aside from the fact that this is just the reporters' version of pass the hash....is that the analysis never goes to any depth. it never covers in a decision worthy fashion the interactions among all the working parts. it's easy stuff to publish and can be found on any blog for just about any team under .500
at one time I worked in a business where, if you screwed up, you died. now I work in one where, if you screw up, millions of dollars can be lost. I have a feel for what good systems analysis is. the stuff we are spoonfed from the media is junk food. yea, yea, yea...a tangent/redirect. it' crap. his message is that if it's not working well...do something else to make it work. now there's real science for ya!! we'll ignore the part about 10 other guys being on the field and how success is an orchestrated outcome of everyone coordinated and synchronized. it's not that the observations are off...we all know griffin has issues....it's the implicit assumption that if Griffin fixed some of the stuff somehow the outcomes wld change without having to change anything else. it's lazy analysis and weak thinking.
anywho....I'm tired of the whole Griffin witchhunt. I intend to enjoy pre-season and the journey this team is on. this is going to be another painful season. the improvement is going to be on defense and that will be fun to watch. you all can beat the griffin pinata all you like. it feeds the media need for controversy so there's some synergy there.
My problem with keim...aside from the fact that this is just the reporters' version of pass the hash....is that the analysis never goes to any depth. it never covers in a decision worthy fashion the interactions among all the working parts. it's easy stuff to publish and can be found on any blog for just about any team under .500
at one time I worked in a business where, if you screwed up, you died. now I work in one where, if you screw up, millions of dollars can be lost. I have a feel for what good systems analysis is. the stuff we are spoonfed from the media is junk food. yea, yea, yea...a tangent/redirect. it' crap. his message is that if it's not working well...do something else to make it work. now there's real science for ya!! we'll ignore the part about 10 other guys being on the field and how success is an orchestrated outcome of everyone coordinated and synchronized. it's not that the observations are off...we all know griffin has issues....it's the implicit assumption that if Griffin fixed some of the stuff somehow the outcomes wld change without having to change anything else. it's lazy analysis and weak thinking.
anywho....I'm tired of the whole Griffin witchhunt. I intend to enjoy pre-season and the journey this team is on. this is going to be another painful season. the improvement is going to be on defense and that will be fun to watch. you all can beat the griffin pinata all you like. it feeds the media need for controversy so there's some synergy there.
Sure. If they both are on the same level. Qb's on other teams that are on par with Griffin are getting reps to develop those traits with the goal of getting to where Tom Brady is. Bottom half QBs are not being held out of valuable playing time in the preseason. They are getting MORE playing time in the preseason. The problem is that most 4th year QBs have either taken those steps to be top half guys, or have already been replaced and are playing with 2nd/3rd team offenses.
A few weeks ago, I posted about something Keim said (I wished I could remember what it was in response to)... he was asked a question and gave an "It either will work or won't" kind of answer.
Thanks, Einstein... because I couldn't get that response at pretty much any message board.
Nick
MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
OK, so when we talk about how many seconds people like Peyton and Brady take to get rid of the ball we can stop using that since they aren't on the same par? NO QB would be asked to stand like a statue in a pocket that doesn't exist and take the abuse he took just because he needed practice.
Right, so as Griff develops as a pocket passer, he needs to get experience working on reads, working on pre-snap alignments, audible, hot routes, and check downs. Things that are completely different from practice vs games.... hence the reps in a game. He can only get enough work on those fundamental things when it comes to the NFL QB position in practice. He probably has a lot of those things, but when it comes to game time, he's not showing those skills. Either he doesn't have them, or he's not accustomed to using them at a game tempo, which would be why he needs the experience in game situations.
fansince62
Guest
let's put aside that many pundits claim pre-season games have limited utility. how much gametime is needed? I believe others have been asking the same question. Don't forget, keep your starting QB in there...you have to keep the other starters. Change the line-up enough and you are not learning under conditions that reflect real games.
MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
preseason is an extension of practice. granted, it is the real deal and bullets are flying but it is still just practice since it doesn't get marked on the record. You gain nothing by leaving a boxer in an exhibition match against Mike Tyson when he clearly has no protection or is allowed to change his style to adjust to it. And that is my point...Griffin is being asked to do things he needs to work on. I 100000000% agree he needs to work on those things. But he was getting hit on his way back to set his feet even on some of them. That blindside sack where he was horse collared and yanked off his feet was brutal. With a scrub LT trying to protect him and him getting constantly hit from that side why didn't we roll out? It serves no purpose asking him to learn something when he doesn't have the proper tools on him.
Every player is different. Griffin, starting from scratch essentially learning a pro-style offense, was set back even further with the offense we used it 2012. I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth here, it was one of the most amazing things I've ever experienced as a Redskins fan, and I hold that near and dear to my heart. That being said, the way he's been handled by an NFL organization has not been the best and imho has potentially killed his chances of ever being a true star in the NFL.
Looking at his history, his whole 1st offseason and regular season, we ran a read option base with some other things mixed in, but the emphasis on developing into a pocket QB was not there.
Year 2 he was hurt, coming back after the ACL so the offseason of field practice time, as well as live fire reps in the preseason was shot. Completely lost.
Year 3 he breaks his ankle week 2.
How much actual time has he had to learn these things in physical game situations? He's a 4 year QB who has had 30+ starts but clearly has not mastered the art during the regular seasons that he's been in. If he has any hope of doing anything different here, he's going to have to prove it in the games. He's practiced well, we've heard the right things in camp, but it's not translating to game speed.
How much game time is needed? Until he gets it or moves on. As long as he's the starter, I think he needs more game time.
No doubt... it's a lose lose situation. Both parties (Gruden and Griffin) were put in a spot that there's essentially no 'correct' answer for. Just opinions on what we each think is / would have been the right thing to do. The only way ANY of this ends up positive for ANYONE is if Griffin some how turns all this around and is a successful QB in a Redskins jersey. Other then that there will always be backlash and scrutiny about every move made, about either one taking any sort of a stance on it, and against anyone who has an opinion about it.
MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
it may look like a lose/lose but what we would definitely lose if he pulled him early was the talk of an injured QB, a coach who doesn't care, and all this hibbidy bibbidy that is scurrying around social media. If this same thing happens to Griffin on Saturday and we don't try to adjust with some quick screens, power runs, slants, etc....I am going to be pretty upset.
Thats fair, and I don't know how I'll feel saturday yet. I do know that I still want to see him get game reps. I think Saturday might be different because they are going to run more of what the season is going to look like... I don't want to see Griffin drop back and be expected to ONLY pass from the pocket in the regular season, I hope that it wasn't coming across that way.
MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
I can't help but think of the look on his face when Garcon dropped the ball. Since that drop (not placing blame) he looked dejected and was not the same upbeat and ready to go QB I remember. If that is the case he needs to shake it off and get back on the horse. You need a short memory in this league.
This is why the whole thing is just so freaking stupid to me and makes no sense. If Robert is injured and/or can't pass a physical next year, he can't be cut to save the $16m option. So not only are you out a QB, the cap is now clogged with $16m from someone who can't play. I don't hold a very high opinion of Gruden already, but if he's not aware of these things, he's even dumber than I've imagined.
Nick
My gut tells me Gruden wasn't the one who signed off on that. I'd imagine it was Allen. We picked up the option BEFORE Scot came in right?
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