If Its Not A Rebuild Its Not Going To Work

[Bulldog]

The Redskins never use the words rebuilding or starting off on a clean slate, but after 3-13 and 4-12 nothing else is going to lead to the progress we all want to see.

We need to stop thinking about turning everything around in one year and build something of value that has legs.

That means no more $10M bonuses for 32 year old players like Jason Hatcher. A guy that old is going to be in retirement when this team is again ready to contend. Even Jerry Jones cut bait on Hatcher rather than shell out up front money for a guy that is more past than future.

The other thing this team needs to do is stop overvaluing the players that are already here. I don't care if we need to bring in an objective consultant but we can't go through another offseason believing guys like Brian Orakpo, Chris Chester, Barry Cofield and Perry Riley are realistically part of the solution here.

These guys are addition by subtraction.

I look at the defensive line and secondary and find about 50% of the players fit this category, or if they were gone in 2015 no one would notice because they did precious little in 2014.

There is perhaps no team picking in the top of the draft that needs a housecleaning as badly as Washington.

Yes, teams like Tennessee lack talent too but don't seem to have 30-somethings with big cap numbers sprinkled up and down the roster.

The worst part about 2014 is that we lost 12 games while still starting a number of older veterans that are likely to be gone.

We didn't take our lumps like the Nationals while we were developing young players that had star potential.

Now we have to go out and find those players. Gruden says he finally understands what he is working with.

Huzzah!

A mostly bare cupboard with a few nice pieces you better get locked up to new deals.

If I were Kerrigan or Williams I don't know if I would want to stay in DC on this kind of team.

 

[fansince62]

Ouch!

I guess the good news is that with capable talent evaluators....teams have been known to accomplish quick turn-arounds.

 

[Bulldog]

What's wrong with a 2-3 year plan like the Seahawks had? Make good middle round picks and build depth that allows you to go 12-4 while missing your LT and several starting defenders for all or portions of the current season.

In free agency the Seahawks look for value in guys like Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril while the Redskins spend millions on Jason Hatcher.

 

[fansince62]

wasn't aware I was questioning anyone's plan!!!

kinda chuckling right now (not at you). juts watched part of the 49ers presser. CEO stated "We expect a SB every year. 8-8 is not acceptable."

could you imagine the joy in DC with an 8-8 season? ha!

anywho....no arguments with your post. the Skins are gonna have to find out what works for them, commit to it...and succeed.

 

[Boone]

I think, with some exceptions (like the Hatcher signing), we have been trying to build long-term. But when you can't find top talent in the draft except mostly by luck, there's no momentum to build upon. We have got to find some NFL guru or gurus out there that can spot real talent and help us get it in B&G. The plan, no matter what it is, will fail if we can't find talent.

 

[Neophyte]

The lack of development by our younger guys speaks more to poor coaching than to a lack of talent, I think. No one hits on everything and no team misses as bad as the Skins appear to have done for years. Coaching is a difference maker and we just don't seem to get the development out of the individual position coaches that I think a lot of the rest of the league gets. I'm thinking specifically of the offensive and defensive lines here but linebacker and secondary are also suspect.

Drafting better just isn't going to help unless we have the coaching talent to do something with the guys we pick.

 

[Boone]

Obviously that's a part of it, but we consistently draft guys that can't break the starting line up, or can't perform if/when they do. And it's not like most of our picks go to other teams and thrive. For every Ryan Kerrigan or Alfred Morris there are 6 or 7 guys every year who don't end up contributing meaningfully. We are talent poor, and we have been for the better part of a decade. And it works both ways - you can't coach someone into being an NFL starter if the talent level isn't there.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Obviously that's a part of it, but we consistently draft guys that can't break the starting line up, or can't perform if/when they do. And it's not like most of our picks go to other teams and thrive. For every Ryan Kerrigan or Alfred Morris there are 6 or 7 guys every year who don't end up contributing meaningfully. We are talent poor, and we have been for the better part of a decade. And it works both ways - you can't coach someone into being an NFL starter if the talent level isn't there.

Exactly what I was going to say. I would agree that the talent evaluation has been a struggle but it isn't like we have drafted guys, let them walk and they make us regret it. In fact I think Devin Thomas is the only one in recent history to have a SB ring and it's because he found his way onto the ST unit for the Giants. In fact, I just searched him to confirm and he's now retired and hasn't been under contract since preseason 2013.

 

[Boone]

I agree with Bob in some instances. David Amerson is a great example. He has speed, good coverage skills, but he is getting worse not better. I chalk that up to coaching. Jason Reed is another example. He could be a top 3 NFL pass catching TE, but he consistently underperforms. A great coaching staff could make him a feared weapon.

But the truly 'talented' guys we draft are few and far between. We miss on as many picks as any NFL team in recent memory.

I look forward to the day when we don't have to debate why this team is horrible.

 

[Primus Porcus]

No doubt about it. Amerson is a good example but we all know that Haslett is not something you want to hang your hat on, and Morris most likely will follow him out, helping him carry his boxes. There is no single fault to this team. It's a collective issue that starts at the top with Dan Snyder and trickles down to the position coaches. If the coaches dont have the pieces in place will only play so well. We haven't to this point had a coach that could 'get the best' of his guys on a consistent basis in a long time. Some could argue 12' but then 13 was just a self destruction. Gibbs is probably the last guy to truly get his players to play over their abilities, but his F.O. and ownership was garbage. It's going to have to be a positive combination before we can expect change, or truly evaluate either aspect of the conversation.

 

[DieselPwr44]

As far as bad coaching goes....

That's very obvious when it comes to the Oline.

You can't tell me that if Bugel or Hannifan were here,that Long and Moses would have never seen the field.
Or LeRibeus either contributes or gets cut.
You see the Patriots draft a guy like Stork in the 4th round and he's now their starting center....while Moses only gets on the field because we were running out of OTs and Long languished on the bench all year long.

Chris Foerster is to the OL as Haslett is to the Defense....

 

[Dead Money]

Will Montgomery is starting for the friggin Broncos.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Peyton Manning is also his QB. Dude has the quickest release time in the game. You could fall down and give that guy enough time to get the ball out.

 

[Henry]

BD,

You DO realize that the Redskins have made 36 picks over the past four years, right? That's 9 picks a year, or two more than the league gives you. We made 12 picks in 2011 and 9 picks in 2012. Those were absolutely, positively, 'build through the draft' years.

This team did EXACTLY what you are saying they should have done.

Hatcher ain't the problem. Orkapo ain't the problem.

Our front office sucks. That's the problem. Strategy doesn't matter if the people implementing it aren't competent.

 

[Ax]

Be nice to draft for the same coach/scheme for more than a few years.

I'm sure we'll get argue over what constitutes a rebuild for the next few months.

 

[Henry]

Be nice to draft for the same coach/scheme for more than a few years.

Yeah, wouldn't that be something?

 

[Bulldog]

Well, I think it is a problem when we tie up $11M in an OLB with a history of injury and an inflated sense of his self-worth.

I also think it is a problem when you look back at say 2011 and project that the only long-term starter we are likely to end up with is Kerrigan, who was taken #1.

When you look back through the picks remember that those extra picks were not in Rounds 1 or 2, many of them were in Rounds 6 or 7.

I don't call that making a commitment to the draft.

When you consistently trade away #1 and #2 picks it leaves your team short of playmakers.

And why you draft an outside linebacker in Round 2 whose bio includes that he is not a great athlete, lacks an initial burst to the qb, etc is just beyond me.

What is the one thing an OLB has to do in the 3-4? Pressure the quarterback.

Even though he was hurt in 2014 I thought Dallas picked a better OLB in Lawrence than we got in Murphy.

When you add that our 'extra' pick for moving down was Spencer Long who was inactive almost the entire season, that doesn't make me feel all full of good cheer for this front office.

 

[Ax]

Bobby Beathard made a career trading away 1's and 2's. With lots of misses too.

 

[Bulldog]

True, but 30 years ago there was no salary cap.

When veterans like Malcolm Barnwell were acquired and didn't turn out the team cut them and moved on.

You can't do that anymore. Your mistakes stay with you sometimes for several years because of the cap.

The other thing to remember is years ago scouting was less highly developed than it is today.

Beathard loved to find talent at smaller schools, guys that had talent but were overlooked by many of the other teams' personnel departments.

Now every player that puts on a college uniform has a draft bio and video on his career. Commercial companies compile information for the league's GMs.

Beathard was able to find Charles Mann at Nevada-Reno and Raleigh McKenzie at Middle Tennessee State.

He often came up with at least one or two picks a year that almost nobody else had even heard of.

And to his credit more than a few of them performed well enough to counter-balance a blown second or third round pick.

Here we don't have that. Our middle and late round picks for the most part stink.

Most of the guys we hit on like Trent Williams and Ryan Kerrigan are well-known prospects on everyone's board as first round picks.

 

[Ax]

I think if the scouts could draft for the same coach/system for more than a couple/few years before having to change directions again, they'd grade out as good as most others. Of course, it's just a non provable theory.

And I'd bet that the coaching we've had around here, other than Gibbs 1 or 2, would have failed with the rosters Beathard provided.