We Need A Bunch Of Starters. So Who Do We Trade?

[GSF]

I'm with you. My only mention of trading Rak (which now is absolutely not going to happen) was a hypothetical due to the fact that it appears he's not returning after this year. If it was possible to turn him into SOMETHING it should be considered. That all is based on the CBA and franchise tag rules, as well as finding someone to give us SOMETHING. Again, it's not possible as we will probably IR him anyways.



As far as Dallas goes.... Demarco Murray is a hell of a good RB. I've always feared him and was glad that Garrett kept him in the shed until this year. Now that Garrett has opened him up, he's proving how good he really is.

Murray is a good RB, but he's not any better than Morris. I personally think Morris is a better player overall, and much more durable. Murray is running behind the best line in the nfl right now. Morris would also be putting up huge numbers behind that line.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Do you remember Miles Austin? Murray is Miles Austin without that o-line. Stuff the box, and Murray looks ordinary. How do I know? His first 3 years in the league, where he proved he wasn't an every down back.

How much of that is lack of talent, and how much of it was Garrett not using him correctly. I remember a couple games where he gashed us and Garrett would inexplicably go away from the run..

 

[GSF]

I'd expect some improvement in some facet of the game. We beat another bad team yesterday...barely. We look especially bad against good teams.




Not sure what you've been watching this year. We have two old safeties. We franchised a guy who isn't worth the money. And, you may not have noticed, but we still have major questions about quarterback.

I'd say we need about 11 new starters.




The problem is that you could have said the same thing last year. There was no change on the o-line...and no, we don't have a 'core' of good talent. We have maybe 6 very good players. That's not a core.



Our front office is unable to evaluate talent. How do I know? Take a look at our recent drafts. Moses has been demoted below Compton.



Cousins' errors resulted from mental mistakes more than pressure.



Bryant is not a stud receiver. He's a couple of bad games away from coming unhinged mentally. As for Romo, he's benefiting from a strong run game. Stuff the run, and you beat Romo.

I'm not going to get into some big quote battle with you lol...obviously we disagree on some things. I will just say a few things: changing 11 starters in 1 off season is completely unrealistic. The safeties are getting old, but they're playing fine for now. The defense is ranked 24th in scoring and 13th overall, not great but not completely horrible either, especially when you factor in the fact that the offense has put them in some very tough spots all season long. I would say the Redskins have more like 8 very good players which is a good core to build around. I'm not sure about the FO, they have had some misses, but they've had some great hits too with guys like Reed, Kerrigan, an Robinson. And finally I'm not arguing that Murray is some fantastic player, just that he and the team are really benefitting from a dominant oline. You say that 6 very good players isn't enough to build around, how many very good players do the cowboys have? More than the Redskins? They are 6 - 1.

My only gripe with the Skins right now is they just haven't dedicated the resources to the oline. They need to protect their investment in RG3. I am quite sure that Gruden sees this now and will make it the top priority this offseason.

I understand your long term aggravation with this team, but I think your short term expectations for this season weren't realistic, especially considering the starting QB is injured.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Everybody has gashed us recently.

It hasn't been ONLY us that he's gashed. He's averaged 5 yards a carry over his career with a low of 4.1. That's no joke man... If he had 750 carries, he'd be tied for 11th all time in YPC.

 

[Miles Monroe]

So much for trading Rak for anything now....

 

[fansince62]

I'm not going to get into some big quote battle with you lol...obviously we disagree on some things. I will just say a few things: changing 11 starters in 1 off season is completely unrealistic. The safeties are getting old, but they're playing fine for now. The defense is ranked 24th in scoring and 13th overall, not great but not completely horrible either, especially when you factor in the fact that the offense has put them in some very tough spots all season long. I would say the Redskins have more like 8 very good players which is a good core to build around. I'm not sure about the FO, they have had some misses, but they've had some great hits too with guys like Reed, Kerrigan, an Robinson. And finally I'm not arguing that Murray is some fantastic player, just that he and the team are really benefitting from a dominant oline. You say that 6 very good players isn't enough to build around, how many very good players do the cowboys have? More than the Redskins? They are 6 - 1.

My only gripe with the Skins right now is they just haven't dedicated the resources to the oline. They need to protect their investment in RG3. I am quite sure that Gruden sees this now and will make it the top priority this offseason.

I understand your long term aggravation with this team, but I think your short term expectations for this season weren't realistic, especially considering the starting QB is injured.

what's the standard for "fixing" things? the team still can't tackle with consistent proficiency. that's basic stuff. the o-line still can't handle physical defenses. there's no speedster at the RB position for an off-set. the d-line doesn't generate enough pressure to help out the secondary; the secondary clearly lacks anyone skilled in tight coverage.

this is not going to be repaired in a single off-season.

 

[Primus Porcus]

this is not going to be repaired in a single off-season.

So why are you up in arms that we didnt draft an O-Lineman earlier then we did?

 

[fansince62]

So why are you up in arms that we didnt draft an O-Lineman earlier then we did?

I don't know. Guess I'm the sort of person who looks at problems rationally, prioritizes and solves the major issues FIRST. risk management 101.

but I may be unusual in that respect.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I don't know. Guess I'm the sort of person who looks at problems rationally, prioritizes and solves the major issues FIRST. risk management 101.

but I may be unusual in that respect.

You're frustrated that we didn't draft O-lineman, but you want us to always be thinking big picture? Drafting someone who is NOT the best fit here just because they are an O-lineman is not thinking big picture... That player doesn't work in our scheme, then we've lost a high draft pick and you're again up in arms that we've drafted poorly. We don't know Gruden's plan.. Obviously he doesn't think Polumbus is the answer, he benched him yesterday. Moses fell to us and maybe we're starting to see why. He was on the board in the 2nd. Would you have been happier if we picked him BEFORE Murphy?

 

[fansince62]

You're frustrated that we didn't draft O-lineman, but you want us to always be thinking big picture? Drafting someone who is NOT the best fit here just because they are an O-lineman is not thinking big picture... That player doesn't work in our scheme, then we've lost a high draft pick and you're again up in arms that we've drafted poorly. We don't know Gruden's plan.. Obviously he doesn't think Polumbus is the answer, he benched him yesterday. Moses fell to us and maybe we're starting to see why. He was on the board in the 2nd. Would you have been happier if we picked him BEFORE Murphy?

you're problem is you view everything in a static framework. football...as in life...it's about move/counter-move. one projects ahead with a strategy.

look..since you like to play hypotheticals with just about all your responses (i.e., unsupportable conjecture)... I'll do the same! what if the team got its collective **** together and positioned itself to draft one of the better o-linemen. they weren't stuck where they drafted. they had options. they have had options for years - the obvious preference would be that they fixed a known weakness years ago so we could afford to draft a defensive player with obvious limitations.

 

[Primus Porcus]

you're problem is you view everything in a static framework. football...as in life...it's about move/counter-move. one projects ahead with a strategy.

look..since you like to play hypotheticals with just about all your responses (i.e., unsupportable conjecture)... I'll do the same! what if the team got its collective **** together and positioned itself to draft one of the better o-linemen. they weren't stuck where they drafted. they had options. they have had options for years - the obvious preference would be that they fixed a known weakness years ago so we could afford to draft a defensive player with obvious limitations.

You're right, we weren't in that position... but you're holding THIS group responsible for previous decision makers shortcomings. Right now, since w haven't seen the future, and none of us have inside information as to what is discussed for player eval, i can only go by a hypothetical.... and PLEASE don't try to tell me what my 'problem' is. I'm having a discussion, not a personal shot. We won't think completely alike. I don't expect us to. If you're going to consider my varying of opinion as my 'problem' then I'm really going to have to think about taking my 'problem's' to talk to people who still have a bit of respect.

 

[GSF]

what's the standard for "fixing" things? the team still can't tackle with consistent proficiency. that's basic stuff. the o-line still can't handle physical defenses. there's no speedster at the RB position for an off-set. the d-line doesn't generate enough pressure to help out the secondary; the secondary clearly lacks anyone skilled in tight coverage.

this is not going to be repaired in a single off-season.

Wait are you arguing with me or agreeing with me? My whole point was that the team wasn't going to be repaired in one off-season, and Gruden is only 1 off-season and 6 games into this thing. It's way to early for me to talk about trading away our best players, swapping out half the starters ect. Are we out of the playoffs? Of course, but I think the team will be more and more entertaining to watch as the season goes on.

 

[Bulldog]

How does a team that lost 13 of its last 15 games really have much of anything another team wants and which the team can really afford to lose?

The few really good younger players we have we need. There is no depth here.

Polumbus stinks game after game and Moses is 'not close to being ready' according to team reporters.

Orakpo gets hurt and Gruden talks as if Trent Murphy is a seventh round draft pick who has to overachieve just to be adequate against Dallas.

On many teams your first draft pick, even if it is from Round 2, are pushing for starting time. Especially behind a player that is having an average season at best.

 

[Primus Porcus]

How does a team that lost 13 of its last 15 games really have much of anything another team wants and which the team can really afford to lose?

The few really good younger players we have we need. There is no depth here.

Polumbus stinks game after game and Moses is 'not close to being ready' according to team reporters.

Orakpo gets hurt and Gruden talks as if Trent Murphy is a seventh round draft pick who has to overachieve just to be adequate against Dallas.

On many teams your first draft pick, even if it is from Round 2, are pushing for starting time. Especially behind a player that is having an average season at best.

Murphy has played in every game... and he did come in behind Kerrigan (our best defensive player) and Orakpo (our highest paid player). Kind of hard to bench Orakpo when you franchise tagged him.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

I'm not ruling out a return for Rak - albeit, to a team friendly deal. Assuming we get a new Dcord, they may want to switch to a 4-3 (which probably is a better fit for the players we have now). Rak would do far better in a 4-3 - at least historically.

My inclination would be to move ahead without him based solely on injury history. Just saying that we should not be overly surprised if there is a return to the team.

 

[Dead Money]

Even at a discount... his geico commercials have over inflated his self worth. He's simply a solid player who thinks he's a superstar. We've had more than our fair share of these type of players and I think moving on is a good idea.

 

[Bulldog]

The truth is that coming back at age 29 after multiple surgeries Orakpo is a high risk and not one this team can really afford to make. We are going to have to shell out major dollars for Kerrigan, a first round pick, and just used our top pick on another outside linebacker.

There are other positions on this team that need attention.

Too many where we don't have ANY hopefuls.

 

[fansince62]

The truth is that coming back at age 29 after multiple surgeries Orakpo is a high risk and not one this team can really afford to make. We are going to have to shell out major dollars for Kerrigan, a first round pick, and just used our top pick on another outside linebacker.

There are other positions on this team that need attention.

Too many where we don't have ANY hopefuls.

the logic here is good. no doubt abt that. the flip side is this: I don't see how you can field a good defense w/o a rusher of equal ability to Kerrigan on the other side. you do save money - in the short run. but how much do you spend in the long-run redressing the drop in capability? IMO...this a *amned if you do...*amned if you don't predicament.

 

[Elephant]

the logic here is good. no doubt abt that. the flip side is this: I don't see how you can field a good defense w/o a rusher of equal ability to Kerrigan on the other side. you do save money - in the short run. but how much do you spend in the long-run redressing the drop in capability? IMO...this a *amned if you do...*amned if you don't predicament.

Not really. You don't need an outstanding outside rusher opposite Kerrigan, what we need is to run a base defense that suits the players we have. We are running a hybrid 3-4 and do not have anyone on the team we can call a true NT. Chris Baker has done about as well as Cofield at that spot...adequately. We have no burst up the middle to displace the OL and force the QB into the outside rush. Or...if, by chance, we do and the QB sneaks out to Orakpo's side, he has almost assuredly missed containment.

We need a defensive coordinator who doesn't suck!

 

[fansince62]

Not really. You don't need an outstanding outside rusher opposite Kerrigan, what we need is to run a base defense that suits the players we have. We are running a hybrid 3-4 and do not have anyone on the team we can call a true NT. Chris Baker has done about as well as Cofield at that spot...adequately. We have no burst up the middle to displace the OL and force the QB into the outside rush. Or...if, by chance, we do and the QB sneaks out to Orakpo's side, he has almost assuredly missed containment.

We need a defensive coordinator who doesn't suck!

agree on pressure up the middle. disagree with the idea that switching to 4-3 somehow sprinkles magic pass-rush dust on the Skins d-line. Kerrigan and ???? go to DE. same problem IMO.