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We Need A Bunch Of Starters. So Who Do We Trade?
- Thread starter McD5
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Ah the first post got edited... And our defenseis what has lost us games... Not arguing that. Even mentioned a few posts ago that i wanted to make a change at DC over the bye week. Spark the team and impliment true live fire snaps
fansince62
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it's also not an argument. it's not even a good statistical argument. if he choses to go down that road then look at the distribution as a whole...not just the average. I could just as easily argue: "hey, the Skins rank near the bottom in third down conversions. they obviously don't have the talent to prevail when it matters most. you can't have good offensive talent and not have a good third down conversion rate."
in truth...neither line of thought is an argument. I'll stick with common sense: we don't have a QB functioning on all cylinders; we have an o-line that for two seasons now is having its arse handed to it; we have special teams that continue to hurt the team; we have a porous pass defense; we have LBs who are so so in pass coverage; we have a d-line that has its moments...but isn't dominant...thus exposing the secondary.
I return to a question posed earlier: "not far away" from what? being competitive? being a play-off team? being a championship contender?
in my mind...all of this is academic. we need a game winning QB. that's the most important position on the team. given the QBs we have...it seems as though we need the very best line money can buy for pass protection. both QBs appear to have issues (in different ways) when the pressure mounts. we get those two things synchronized an working then we have other tools in place to be worked with. the QB and the o-line are what drive offensive success. and we have neither right now.
defense? who the H knows?! we have a weak secondary and a questionable DC.
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From winning more games then we lose... Which is a step towards where we need to be. We are not a move or two from winning a championship but what have we done in the past where we have non succeeded? We pursue the most talented player available and hinder the home grown talent we have. We have bypassed development and had firesales to try to have a 1 year fix. How about we use our full offseason... Our full plate of draft picks... The $11 mil of money we save from Rak and add pieces to our current pieces, while still allowing our young talent to develop TOGETHER.
fansince62
Guest
1) we haven't had fire sales...for years. the rest of the league is generally not interested in our roster.
2) not far away from being average is what I take you to be saying. ok. given the small margins for a league based on parity I can see that. it's not very inspiring.....but...ok.
since Shanahan it seems to me we have stuck with the home grown talent. it just hasn't been good enough. who have we shed (i.e., not developed) that you think has been a costly mistake?
in my simple view of things...it all boils down to the QB. that has been the biggest open wound on this team for a long, long time.
Ax
Guest
Ah, those moments when you know exactly what you want to say, and to whom you wish to say it to, and the way in which it needs to be said.
Only to let it pass, because the long term penalty isn't worth the temporary satisfaction.
Yet.
Only to let it pass, because the long term penalty isn't worth the temporary satisfaction.
Yet.
You're absolutely right... firesale wasn't the right term. Roster purge (better?). Most of that is because we've been void of valid talent, and I understand that. Right now, we actually have a few players that other teams would be interested in. Players that can (and do) directly impact a football game. I personally don't think we should let that go... yet. Gruden is 6 games into his first season. Lets keep adding pieces for a little while and see what can be built to compliment an offense that can (despite needing pieces) score points.
fansince62
Guest
so...we can find some common ground here. I wouldn't shed Djax, RGIII (pending another year), ALF, Reed, Kerrigan, Garcon, Trent. All the others? Varying levels of ability but no "gotta keep em" stand-outs far as I am concerned. I suppose there are some development layers who have good upside - like Grant. there is also a player flow chart (somewhere one imagines) that accounts for retirements, replacements, etc. but these players do, in my book, fall into the viable trade option bin.
Ax
Guest
The only problem is, once the season starts, the "Better Than What We Have Tree" is bare. All the pissing and moaning, and make believe scenario's, talking about the possible future, won't change that.
THAT is the reality.
But let's not stop some people from doing their best local media imitation, in using our current status to try and get more folks to jump on the Bitch Train.
Which serves no purpose whatsoever.
And THAT is another reality.
A handful of plays, in every game but the vaGiants, and this same team could be 5-1, 4-2.
And THAT is yet another reality.
And yes, we know. They didn't make those plays. No one is seeing something the rest of us are blind to.
THAT is the reality.
But let's not stop some people from doing their best local media imitation, in using our current status to try and get more folks to jump on the Bitch Train.
Which serves no purpose whatsoever.
And THAT is another reality.
A handful of plays, in every game but the vaGiants, and this same team could be 5-1, 4-2.
And THAT is yet another reality.
And yes, we know. They didn't make those plays. No one is seeing something the rest of us are blind to.
Elephant
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Right...but they didn't, and we're not. The good teams always seem to get that "bounce"...we don't. Why?
Like I have said from the beginning of the season...if this team squeaks out 8 wins, I would be elated! That just isn't going to happen, bar a miracle. At this point, if we pull 6 wins out of our ass, I will be happy. That will show progress.
And speaking of progress...there certainly has been some...especially from Breeland who has been given a herculean task, especially this past weekend. For a rookie 4th rounder placed into a starting role, the kid isn't bad...just young.
We can pull a quick strike downfield like we' haven't seen in years because of the weapons on the outside.
Ryan Kerrigan is an All-Pro.
Trent Murphy is being misused and still getting pressure when he is lining up on the inside next to Hatcher in a 4-3 base...he's just undersized.
This team has talent, looks like a few Otis Wonsley's out there. We simply lack starting caliber across the board on both sides of the line to put games away when we have them.
Hey gents. Having a slow day at work so I thought I'd pop in and see how everyone's doing. Sorry the Skins are crapping the bed again. Sigh.
Now, to be fair I haven't watched a full game since week one but I do have a lot of previous football watching experience, and I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I will just say this:
If you need more than one draft to fill your roster with starting-calibre players, you have to get them over more than one draft. The LAST thing you should do is trade away the starters you DO have. At best that gives you a zero-sum result. At worst you lose a starter and are further back than you were before. Stop talking silly. Hope for wins. Draft well, and dream of large women.
That's what I'd say ... if I were paying attention.
Good luck this week!
Now, to be fair I haven't watched a full game since week one but I do have a lot of previous football watching experience, and I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I will just say this:
If you need more than one draft to fill your roster with starting-calibre players, you have to get them over more than one draft. The LAST thing you should do is trade away the starters you DO have. At best that gives you a zero-sum result. At worst you lose a starter and are further back than you were before. Stop talking silly. Hope for wins. Draft well, and dream of large women.
That's what I'd say ... if I were paying attention.
Good luck this week!
Goaldeje
The Legend
Henry's got a point. Evidently the mods traded him away and we did NOT get two (or even one) quality mods in exchange.
MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
my gosh, Henry talks too damn much! can we put a muzzle on him already?
In all seriousness...good to see you back. I miss your constant banter with me and hope to see more of your ugly mug.
In all seriousness...good to see you back. I miss your constant banter with me and hope to see more of your ugly mug.
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Here are the trades that took place in the latest offseason-
2014 NFL Football Trades - CBSSports.com Transactions
14 total players traded for:
TE Tom Wright (Patriots)
DE Ben Bass (Patriots)
LB Akeem Dent (Texans)
2 4th round picks
1 5th round pick
5 6th round picks
2 7th round picks
2 undisclosed picks
2014 NFL Football Trades - CBSSports.com Transactions
14 total players traded for:
TE Tom Wright (Patriots)
DE Ben Bass (Patriots)
LB Akeem Dent (Texans)
2 4th round picks
1 5th round pick
5 6th round picks
2 7th round picks
2 undisclosed picks
fansince62
Guest
Hey gents. Having a slow day at work so I thought I'd pop in and see how everyone's doing. Sorry the Skins are crapping the bed again. Sigh.
Now, to be fair I haven't watched a full game since week one but I do have a lot of previous football watching experience, and I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I will just say this:
If you need more than one draft to fill your roster with starting-calibre players, you have to get them over more than one draft. The LAST thing you should do is trade away the starters you DO have. At best that gives you a zero-sum result. At worst you lose a starter and are further back than you were before. Stop talking silly. Hope for wins. Draft well, and dream of large women.
That's what I'd say ... if I were paying attention.
Good luck this week!
makes sense...with one caveat: starting caliber are only meaningful relative to the competition. if they don't measure up.....doesn't matter. I think around these parts we have for too long over-evaluated the ability of many players.
oh yea...H!!!!!! I'm with ya on taking a break from self-inflicted stress.
it's pretty simple: upper tier QB + better in the trenches. everything else will flow outta dat.
Well, I don't really know who's playing well and who's not these days so I can't speak to over-valuing a player based on my own eyes and biases. I'm speaking in general terms. I assume if a player would actually get us something in a trade, he's considered valuable by more than just Redskin fans. If we're talking about unicorns and rainbows and getting a first round pick for Hankerson or something then hell yeah, go for it.
If we're talking about the real world and getting a third or fourth for a guy who's been to a pro-bowl over the past two or three years ... no thanks.
I have to admit I'm not missing it as much as I thought. I swear I didn't time this based on how the Redskins are playing ... I've just had enough with the league in general. I am working my way back on the board, because there are times when I do miss you crazy bastards.
No arguments from me on that.
fansince62
Guest
welcome back amigo! always a pleasure haunting the same spaces you visit!
GSF
The Starter
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Man some of you guys crack me up...Trading D Jackson, Rak or anyone else would be real dumb imo, unless they were being problem children like Percy Harvin or someone like that. How about we give Gruden more than a handful of games with a back up QB before we start talking trades?
You guys seem to forget that this is the first year with a new coach and the starting QB is injured for the Redskins. What did you expect? Yeah the team is losing right now, but they have played hard and competed in all the games. Guys like Jackson, Garcon, Kerrigan, Reed, Hatcher, and Helu(needs to get the ball a little more in space imo) have shown that they are big time play makers. Younger players like Baker, Robinson, Amerson, and Will Compton(looks real good to me) have shown a lot of potential and improvement. The defense is far from great, but they have been better this season, and losing Hall really was a big blow. They are not a championship defense, but they have been making some key stops all season.
The Redskins have 1 glaring weakness: They are extremely weak on the oline. They can barely block 4 rushers, and they can't handle blitzes at all. Even worse, they seem to be much worse at run blocking this season than they were last season. Morris is getting hit behind the los on nearly every running play right now. The RT and RG get blown up play after play. The Center would probably be a decent player if he had better players around him, and the LG seems to be mediocre at best so far.
The Redskins are not going to fix this in 1 year, but they do have a good core of talent. What do they need to do? It's simple: the need to build for the future and not just the short term. They need to draft well, and they need to make smart FA role player acquisitions. What they don't need to do is try to replace a whole bunch of starters in 1 off-season b/c that doesn't work, especially for the Redskins. Their safeties are good enough for now. Their linebackers, receivers, runningbacks, good enough. Dline needs another role player or 2 but other than that, good enough, at least for now. QB, well we're all hoping that works out, but it's way too early to give up on RG3. Let's put a good line in front of him and see how much that helps.
If DHall is done, or even if he's not, The Skins will probably have to go corner in the first round. Amerson is looking like he can be a very solid second corner. If the Skins have a high pick, which it looks like they will, they should be able to get a stud corner, which would go a long way to fixing the defense. After that, the skins needs to look for lineman on both sides of the ball, but the oline first. If the Skins could get a top RG or RT at the top of the second round, and then add another 1 in FA, this would immediately be a different team.
I hate losing as much as the rest of you guys, but I'm really not that pissed right now. I still have a good feeling about Gruden, and I'm still hopeful he can get RG3 going. I wasn't expecting the Skins to win a bunch of games this season, especially when Griffin went out. I do have to admit though that I thought Cousins would do a lot better, but I don't really blame him either. I don't think any QB would be very good behind that line.
Edit: I just will add that the cowboys really aren't a very talented team right now, but their oline is dominating and they're 6-1. They have a stud receiver in Bryant, and Romo seems to be playing a lot smarter, but who do they have after that?
You guys seem to forget that this is the first year with a new coach and the starting QB is injured for the Redskins. What did you expect? Yeah the team is losing right now, but they have played hard and competed in all the games. Guys like Jackson, Garcon, Kerrigan, Reed, Hatcher, and Helu(needs to get the ball a little more in space imo) have shown that they are big time play makers. Younger players like Baker, Robinson, Amerson, and Will Compton(looks real good to me) have shown a lot of potential and improvement. The defense is far from great, but they have been better this season, and losing Hall really was a big blow. They are not a championship defense, but they have been making some key stops all season.
The Redskins have 1 glaring weakness: They are extremely weak on the oline. They can barely block 4 rushers, and they can't handle blitzes at all. Even worse, they seem to be much worse at run blocking this season than they were last season. Morris is getting hit behind the los on nearly every running play right now. The RT and RG get blown up play after play. The Center would probably be a decent player if he had better players around him, and the LG seems to be mediocre at best so far.
The Redskins are not going to fix this in 1 year, but they do have a good core of talent. What do they need to do? It's simple: the need to build for the future and not just the short term. They need to draft well, and they need to make smart FA role player acquisitions. What they don't need to do is try to replace a whole bunch of starters in 1 off-season b/c that doesn't work, especially for the Redskins. Their safeties are good enough for now. Their linebackers, receivers, runningbacks, good enough. Dline needs another role player or 2 but other than that, good enough, at least for now. QB, well we're all hoping that works out, but it's way too early to give up on RG3. Let's put a good line in front of him and see how much that helps.
If DHall is done, or even if he's not, The Skins will probably have to go corner in the first round. Amerson is looking like he can be a very solid second corner. If the Skins have a high pick, which it looks like they will, they should be able to get a stud corner, which would go a long way to fixing the defense. After that, the skins needs to look for lineman on both sides of the ball, but the oline first. If the Skins could get a top RG or RT at the top of the second round, and then add another 1 in FA, this would immediately be a different team.
I hate losing as much as the rest of you guys, but I'm really not that pissed right now. I still have a good feeling about Gruden, and I'm still hopeful he can get RG3 going. I wasn't expecting the Skins to win a bunch of games this season, especially when Griffin went out. I do have to admit though that I thought Cousins would do a lot better, but I don't really blame him either. I don't think any QB would be very good behind that line.
Edit: I just will add that the cowboys really aren't a very talented team right now, but their oline is dominating and they're 6-1. They have a stud receiver in Bryant, and Romo seems to be playing a lot smarter, but who do they have after that?
I'm with you. My only mention of trading Rak (which now is absolutely not going to happen) was a hypothetical due to the fact that it appears he's not returning after this year. If it was possible to turn him into SOMETHING it should be considered. That all is based on the CBA and franchise tag rules, as well as finding someone to give us SOMETHING. Again, it's not possible as we will probably IR him anyways.
As far as Dallas goes.... Demarco Murray is a hell of a good RB. I've always feared him and was glad that Garrett kept him in the shed until this year. Now that Garrett has opened him up, he's proving how good he really is.
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