Change of Thought: Let Orakpo Go

[tshile]

Somehow he's attained a status in DC usually reserved for backup QBs.

Ironically enough it's the orakpo supporters elevating him to that status.

 

[Elephant]

Jackson can get pressure? First of all, why do you think this? Because he played well as a starter for eight games of his six-year career?

Second of all, Jackson is a free agent as well. Jackson is a career backup who is older than Orakpo. Somehow he's attained a status in DC usually reserved for backup QBs. Yes, he's a fine player for a guy who made 700k last year. But you simply cannot have a team full of guys who make decent stop-gaps. That's no way to build a team.

Using that logic, one could just as easily argue that we got by just fine with our current OL when Griffin was healthy. Since Griffin will be healthy next year why waste time and cap space replacing offensive linemen that we've proven we can 'get by' with? We've had a top ten offense for the past two seasons. We have a terrible defense. We have glaring needs to be filled, so I say we ignore the OL this year because we can always add linemen some other magical time in the future when conditions are perfect.

Go ahead...cherry pick what I am saying. Bottom line, our defense has performed it's best in the last 4 years with Brian Orakpo on the sidelines...both times!

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Go ahead...cherry pick what I am saying. Bottom line, our defense has performed it's best in the last 4 years with Brian Orakpo on the sidelines...both times!

Another myth - that Brian can't stay on the field. He missed almost all of 2012, but other than that, he's missed two games. One last year, one in 2010.

And contrary to your statement, the defense played its best in Orakpo's rookie season, 2009. He played all 16 games that year.

 

[Henry]

Go ahead...cherry pick what I am saying. Bottom line, our defense has performed it's best in the last 4 years with Brian Orakpo on the sidelines...both times!

You are right. I did sort of mutate your argument there. Let's get this back on track.

You are correct that our defense played it's best during the last seven games of 2012. The entire team played it's best during that stretch. Should we be basing our long term front office strategy on how we played during those seven games?

 

[tshile]

You are right. I did sort of mutate your argument there. Let's get this back on track.

You are correct that our defense played it's best during the last seven games of 2012. The entire team played it's best during that stretch. Should we be basing our long term front office strategy on how we played during those seven games?

If we're going to look at any stretch of games in recent history, that's the only one worth looking at :\

3-6 start that season, 5-11 the one before, 6-10 before that, 3-13 after that run. Not a whole lot of awesome stretches of football being played in there :\

But you're right, it's a little more complicated than that. One could argue the front office shouldn't even be paying attention to that sort of stuff, but instead looking down the road...

 

[Elephant]

You are right. I did sort of mutate your argument there. Let's get this back on track.

You are correct that our defense played it's best during the last seven games of 2012. The entire team played it's best during that stretch. Should we be basing our long term front office strategy on how we played during those seven games?

Come on Henry, in one sentence you acknowledge cherry picking and then you do it again. I am not arguing we shouldn't keep Orakpo because we played better at the end of the 11 season and the end of the 12 season with him on the sideline. There is more to my argument and I have mentioned it in post #91 of this thread. Tha fact that we did play better was simply supporting my assertion.

I think we agree the return of Orakpo would be in the best interest of this team, but I...and others...feel that spending too much on him is not the wise course of action. The wiser course of action is ensuring the most obvious needs on this team are met.

I just don't buy the whole, spend on our own players, argument either. Spending too much on a player we drafted is just as costly as spending on a player that we didn't draft. It's still too much.

You also suggested that those of us against the Orakpo signing should be against the Hall signing as well. I kinda am. I like the way Hall has matured, but he is a nickel CB at best. Does the contract he sign warrant that?

We'll see how it pans out.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Orakpo missed one game in 2011, how was he "on the sidelines" for the end of the season? Or is your assertion based on one game?

I've already stated why we played better at the end of 2012, and it coincided with Fletcher's resurgence, not Orakpo's absence. Also, the play calling got a lot more aggressive, letting Haz do what he does.

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[tshile]

Also, the play calling got a lot more aggressive, letting Haz do what he does.

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So when the defense was bad it's because ShanCuffian was calling the shots, but when it was good it's because he gave up on calling the shots?

Am I the only one that is seeing these excuses and seriously questioning their validity??

 

[Elephant]

You're right, it was one game to end the 2011 when Jackson came in and looked more than serviceable. But the defense played well without Rak in that game. Again, if you would stop cherry picking the ideas you want to attack and look at the whole argument I have been making I would appreciate it.

If Brian Orakpo asks for too much money, we have to let him walk! That's the bottom line. It doesn't matter if we drafted him! It doesn't matter if he is good at one thing and one thing only! It doesn't matter that he's a likable player! The only thing that should matter is the proper investment is made!

We've got some tough decisions to make. Possibly over paying DeAngelo Hall is one of them...not sure I am comfortable with his contract. We MUST upgrade our OL. The most important player on our team needs protection!

 

[Elephant]

So when the defense was bad it's because ShanCuffian was calling the shots, but when it was good it's because he gave up on calling the shots?

Am I the only one that is seeing these excuses and seriously questioning their validity??

No...not the only one.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

So when the defense was bad it's because ShanCuffian was calling the shots, but when it was good it's because he gave up on calling the shots?

Am I the only one that is seeing these excuses and seriously questioning their validity??

No, when it was bad, Fletcher playing bad was a huge part.

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[Lanky Livingston]

You're right, it was one game to end the 2011 when Jackson came in and looked more than serviceable. But the defense played well without Rak in that game. Again, if you would stop cherry picking the ideas you want to attack and look at the whole argument I have been making I would appreciate it.

If Brian Orakpo asks for too much money, we have to let him walk! That's the bottom line. It doesn't matter if we drafted him! It doesn't matter if he is good at one thing and one thing only! It doesn't matter that he's a likable player! The only thing that should matter is the proper investment is made!

We've got some tough decisions to make. Possibly over paying DeAngelo Hall is one of them...not sure I am comfortable with his contract. We MUST upgrade our OL. The most important player on our team needs protection!

You complain about cherry-picking, but continue to ignore my comments about Fletcher. He's arguably the best player on defense, when he's on his game. For the first half of 2012 and pretty much all of 2013, he was not on his game. In fact, he was pretty terrible. He was able to flip a switch midway through 2012, which coincided with the defense performing better (Jackson played in some stinkers before this).

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[Ax]

For those against it, whatever price Orakpo signs for will be, too much.

 

[Elephant]

For those against it, whatever price Orakpo signs for will be, too much.

Not true. If we get him at the right price, you pull the trigger. What is the right price? I will admit I do not know the exact amount. But top 5 DE/OLB in this league is not the right price.

 

[tshile]

For those against it, whatever price Orakpo signs for will be, too much.

That's not true at all and simply reading the random thought thread or the various threads on Orakpo shows as much.

Conversely there are people that have said we must retain him at any price.

 

[Ax]

I guess we'll see. If Hall's contract is 4mil per year, it's a damn good deal for both sides. But opinions vary on that one too.

If Rak gets a long term deal, instead of the tag, I think we need to consider where it ranks for that position, over the length of the contract, and not just this coming season. He may get a chunk up front, that will seem too high, but have a friendlier cap number as time goes by.

Remember, it's usually only the guaranteed money that is important.

 

[tshile]

I guess we'll see. If Hall's contract is 4mil per year, it's a damn good deal for both sides. But opinions vary on that one too.

If Rak gets a long term deal, instead of the tag, I think we need to consider where it ranks for that position, over the length of the contract, and not just this coming season. He may get a chunk up front, that will seem too high, but have a friendlier cap number as time goes by.

Remember, it's usually only the guaranteed money that is important.

Right, and disagreeing on whether the number is too high, too low, or just right is different than saying the people that think he'll cost too much are being complete disingenuous and will refuse to like a deal regardless of the number.

 

[Ax]

Not what I said t.

Although, people with a predisposed position usually tend to see things that way, first.

 

[tshile]

Not what I said t.

Although, people with a predisposed position usually tend to see things that way, first.

That's not exactly what this post meant?

For those against it, whatever price Orakpo signs for will be, too much.

It certainly seems that way, maybe I'm reading something that's not there though.

 

[Ax]

That's not exactly what this post meant?

No, I never called anyone an outright liar.