How the hell is Haslett still here?

[CounterTrey]

Oh I see where you're coming from Boone and believe me I can sympathize as I've been the same place pretty much every hire up to this one. But at this stage my confidence and trust is going to have to be earned back. It's true JG isn't responsible for the past here but he's had enough evidence to conclude that Haslett's numbers just don't stack up to what this team needs and deserves. I can buy into the notion that anything is possible, because it is, but I don't see it as spazzy or unreasonable or irrational for me to not only not have any to begin with based on the last 20 years but also to pass judgement on moves that have already taken place. Haslett is no McVay or Heck even Morris, he's got a long enough track record over almost 2 decades that we can indeed draw some conclusions, and they aren't good ones. The fact that these criteria by all evidence have been largely ignored screams red flag to me.

But one thing it is NOT is silly. It's rational and based on tangible evidence, not hysterical emotion. I'm fed up, not hysterical. It makes me jaded to a degree but it doesn't make me incapable of seeing reason.

 

[CounterTrey]

Either you're gonna give Gruden the benefit of the doubt for keeping a failed DC on or you won't. I can see reasons for doing either.

Personally, he gets nothin from me. Win games then we'll talk.

EXACTLY! Give that man a Cigar, he wins the big prize!

 

[Boone]

I have to smile a little having been on Redskins fan suicide watch myself for the better part of the past 60 days to the point of getting chided for negativity by my fellow BGOers, that I'm now perceived to have assumed my rightful place as deaf, dumb, and blind Redskins homer. Way I see it, the Redskins have had some pretty significant changes occur starting at the top. Would I like to have seen more? Probably. But I'm not sure how logical the average fan's thought processes are sometimes. Most fans look at the Shanahan regime and say:

1. Shanahan was here and we mostly sucked.
2. Getting rid of Shanahan and anyone he said 'hi' to on a daily basis will fix the situation.
3. Failure to get rid of everyone that had anything to do with this team will result in more suckage.

I have the same impulse, but the truth is, any give organization is a lot more complex than that. We don't know that changing out ALL the parts of the equation would equal success. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. We also don't know (although we think we do) that keeping some parts in place won't actually help contribute to or speed up the process of fielding a winning team. I'm skeptical too on that front. But there's a difference between 'thinking' and 'knowing'. We DON'T know. It's like buying stocks. Previous performance may not reflect future performance. In the absence of data, it is understandable that we are looking at the only facts we do know - Jim Haslett has not been able to consistently field above average defenses. That doesn't mean it can't happen. Just that it hasn't. That's really all I'm saying.

 

[Boone]

Either you're gonna give Gruden the benefit of the doubt for keeping a failed DC on or you won't. I can see reasons for doing either.

Personally, he gets nothin from me. Win games then we'll talk.

This is unacceptable. You need to expand those thoughts into at least half a page of rambling rationalizations and conjecture if you're going to call yourself a staff member here buddy. Get busy!

 

[CounterTrey]

Oh and Boone it's all good. If I couldn't take a little prodding I'd have a hard time being a football fan let alone Skins fan.

 

[Boone]

It's good to know I have the ability to occasionally just piss someone the **** off. Not that it was really ever in doubt. I am mostly just trying to do some pre-work here with Ryman. Because if he's ever proven anything close to 100% correct again in the near future, he's going to be insufferable

 

[CounterTrey]

I have to smile a little having been on Redskins fan suicide watch myself for the better part of the past 60 days to the point of getting chided for negativity by my fellow BGOers, that I'm now perceived to have assumed my rightful place as deaf, dumb, and blind Redskins homer. Way I see it, the Redskins have had some pretty significant changes occur starting at the top. Would I like to have seen more? Probably. But I'm not sure how logical the average fan's thought processes are sometimes. Most fans look at the Shanahan regime and say:

1. Shanahan was here and we mostly sucked.
2. Getting rid of Shanahan and anyone he said 'hi' to on a daily basis will fix the situation.
3. Failure to get rid of everyone that had anything to do with this team will result in more suckage.

I have the same impulse, but the truth is, any give organization is a lot more complex than that. We don't know that changing out ALL the parts of the equation would equal success. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. We also don't know (although we think we do) that keeping some parts in place won't actually help contribute to or speed up the process of fielding a winning team. I'm skeptical too on that front. But there's a difference between 'thinking' and 'knowing'. We DON'T know. It's like buying stocks. Previous performance may not reflect future performance. In the absence of data, it is understandable that we are looking at the only facts we do know - Jim Haslett has not been able to consistently field above average defenses. That doesn't mean it can't happen. Just that it hasn't. That's really all I'm saying.

Well just about ANYTHING is possible Boone, so I doubt you'll get much argument on that point. But probable? Nope and that's where I come down....we should be playing the percentages more and doing less gut feeling crap.

And to be fair to myself and Ryman at least, we've been howling for Haslett's head for years now, it's not just association with Shanahan's tenure here.

 

[Elephant]

Of those three Fangio is the only one worth anything. New England's D has been abysmal... If not for several miracle comebacks by Brady (including against CLEVELAND), they might be out of the playoffs.

Del Rio has done alright, but Denver's D has been lit up a lot this season, again with Peyton saving their bacon. The cowboys put up 48 on them!

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Lanky, the Pats defense was a top 10 defense this year without arguably their best player...Vince Wolkork!

Like I said, Jack Del Rio has had a rash of injuries and the loss of a couple of key players. They may not be a great defense, but he has managed to keep them competitve down the stretch...not getting blasted for 40 points a game like we saw earlier in the year. He was rumored to have some interest from the Vikings this year and last year was given consideration. There is no denying Peyton's role on that team...but Jack Del Rio is not the non-issue McD5 says he is. You're completely missing the point...again.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Think of it this way: two scenarios. Replace the QB on both teams, or replace the DC on both teams. Which scenario effects their team's success the most?

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[Elephant]

Think of it this way: two scenarios. Replace the QB on both teams, or replace the DC on both teams. Which scenario effects their team's success the most?

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You keep missing the point. McD5 was trying to suggest that the DC's for all 3 of those teams are irrelevant thus suggesting that Haslett being here is no big deal when it is. A quality DC is very important to being where all 4 teams in games today are. All 4 are on track to be Coaches within the next 2 or 3 years. Stop trying to make this about something else. You're falling into the same ole' game you always play...

 

[Lanky Livingston]

You keep missing the point. McD5 was trying to suggest that the DC's for all 3 of those teams are irrelevant thus suggesting that Haslett being here is no big deal when it is. A quality DC is very important to being where all 4 teams in games today are. All 4 are on track to be Coaches within the next 2 or 3 years. Stop trying to make this about something else. You're falling into the same ole' game you always play...

Same old game? Because we disagree? Lol. One of us is certainly doing the same old thing, but it ain't me.

I agree with McD, the DCs on these teams are irrelevant because they are all well built.

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[SkinsFTW]

We DON'T know. It's like buying stocks. Previous performance may not reflect future performance. In the absence of data, it is understandable that we are looking at the only facts we do know - Jim Haslett has not been able to consistently field above average defenses. That doesn't mean it can't happen. Just that it hasn't. That's really all I'm saying.

LOL, dude you have to talk to Dan Snyder about joining his marketing dept. (and lets see him consistently field AVERAGE defenses first before we task him with fielding above average defenses considering even that hasn't happened in over a decade)

Basically your entire point is that, contrary to popular belief, nobody knows for sure that doing the same thing over and over isn't in fact genius. We just have to believe in it more this time and the fact that we aren't falling into line is evidence of our own hyperventilation and/or other personal problems.

I wonder how close Redskins fans are to turning into Cubs fans?

 

[servumtuum]

I wonder how close Redskins fans are to turning into Cubs fans?

Ouch.

Having lived in the Chicago area for 25 years and spending an uncomfortable number of times sitting in the bleachers at Wrigley field watching the Cubs...in September....well, that just hurts.

That, BTW, is where I learned the meaning of the word angst.

 

[Neophyte]

We are closer to being Jets fans....

 

[Boone]

LOL, dude you have to talk to Dan Snyder about joining his marketing dept. (and lets see him consistently field AVERAGE defenses first before we task him with fielding above average defenses considering even that hasn't happened in over a decade)

Basically your entire point is that, contrary to popular belief, nobody knows for sure that doing the same thing over and over isn't in fact genius. We just have to believe in it more this time and the fact that we aren't falling into line is evidence of our own hyperventilation and/or other personal problems.

I wonder how close Redskins fans are to turning into Cubs fans?

I didn't say anything like that, but thanks for the condescending and sarcastic post and for not reading the other 3000 words i wrote clarifying my thoughts.

 

[Bulldog]

It won't matter what the defensive players thought of the coaching hire and return of Haslett.

Most of these guys will either be gone or fighting to earn a roster spot as a backup.

Let's get real. If there was a full cup of talent here we wouldn't have given up 45, 45, 41, 38, and 33 points in games this season.

 

[McD5]

Per John Keim

“The Redskins sent defensive coordinator Jim Haslett, offensive line coach Chris Foerster and defensive line coach Jacob Burney to the Senior Bowl. They will be there through Wednesday. Everyone else will stay behind."


This is for those hyperventilating over the state of our lines. Here's what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Boone I knew you were taking the piss because you dont like Haslett either. I am already insufferable because I have a tendency to be right... a lot.

The reason I said I just lost faith in Gruden was simple, when you make a decision to run a specific defence it should be based on the talent you have , not because " that 3-4 gives MY offence trouble" the only place our O will play OUR D is in practice. and to keep someone who was absolutely terrible as a DC is almost criminal, I would rather go with a young unknown who has potential than a moron who we know is gonna suck. you said he hasnt put out any above average defences,I would say he hasnt put out any average ones.

Gruden needed to put the stamp on this team he didnt

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

and foerster sucks too, none of the young guys have gotten better or panned out.

 

[SkinsFTW]

I didn't say anything like that, but thanks for the condescending and sarcastic post and for not reading the other 3000 words i wrote clarifying my thoughts.

Maybe I read it wrong then and you weren't condescending first.

From a few posts earlier:

We haven't picked up a free agent, drafted a player, had a practice, or played a game and you've 'lost faith'?

Sounds like a personal problem to me. Try breathing into a paper bag.

Sounds like a we must just believe in failure turning into rainbows and unicorns post to me and if not, you have problems. Hey, bigfoot might be real too and almost as likely as Haslett coaching a top 10 defense. I'm sure he will turn up one of these days as well, likely after Hasletts next top 10 defense. It's obvious that Haslett keeps his job because he's buds with Gruden and maybe even Allen. It's not unlike Shanahan hiring his own son as OC. This always works out well in Redskinsland though and we are off our rockers for calling Gruden out for it. Let me know how you feel in 1-2 years, or 4 if Haslett somehow hangs on that long again. He's done it once, why not twice, right? It might actually take 4-5 years to put together a decent defense for him. In a year when Haslett has once again put out a 20-32nd ranked D I'm sure all his fans will still support him. Myself? I'd rather see the Redskins bring in a winner. I know, that is blasphemy around the rainbow and lollipop types.

But I'm not sure how logical the average fan's thought processes are sometimes. Most fans look at the Shanahan regime and say:

1. Shanahan was here and we mostly sucked.
2. Getting rid of Shanahan and anyone he said 'hi' to on a daily basis will fix the situation.
3. Failure to get rid of everyone that had anything to do with this team will result in more suckage.

Who is being condescending here? You know damned well we've been saying for years that Haslett has been straight garbage as a DC and in 2010 it had NOTHING to do with Shanahan. Haslett has earned that rep on his own and done NOTHING since being hired by the Redskins to change the perception and has actually reinforced it. Wanting Haslett gone has nothing to do with Shanahan and you already knew this anyway. Was anybody trying to chase away Shanahans own RB coach or his TE coach or hell even his OL coach who also returned? If we wanted Shanahans stink gone wouldn't we have gone after Turner before Haslett considering the dude was with Shanahan since the 90's?