Random Commanders Thoughts

[Shi no Tenshi]

I will say: since the beginning of the season, the main person on the Redskins who has been showing daddy issues is....Kyle Shanahan.

 

[fansince62]

you don't think that 4 years and 3 double digit loss seasons has shown some degree of patience?

Jack Pardee went 10-6 in 1979 and yet after a 6-10 season in 1980 was then fired by Jack Kent Cooke and Bobby Beathard.

It was the DIRECTION of the franchise as much as the individual season record that was at issue.

I think we have the same situation here.

Don't forget, this offseason we are going to have between $25-30M in cap room to make moves and change to some degree the makeup of this team.

Do you want a guy who has been only middling in his abilities as GM to make these decisions and put whichever coach comes in here in 2015 in a position of having to live with Shanahan's moves for the next 3 or 4 years?

That scares me.

your point on future "un-prudential" actions is well taken…and a good one.

nevertheless, I return to point that another firing before end of contract will also have impacts. Snyder himself has to change the course of events in Redskin land. that doesn't happen over-night. One of the things he has to do is create conditions where people WANT to come here. this has been a known, and major, problem. Honoring contracts - given past actions of routine and summary firings - is one piece of the puzzle.

this season's debacle, IMO, is very complex in terms of root causes. pointing at the owner, the coach or any ONE cause, again IMO, over-simplifies what has unfolded. I haven't seen ANY analysis that really and substantively tries to untangle and prioritize all the underlying events. most of what I have seen has simply been personality attacks. those may even have merit - but they aren't causal analysis.

I do believe Snyder lies at the root of many problems. but I accept that he isn't going anywhere. so, as a fan, my mind focuses on what can be done to improve and stabilize the situation.

 

[Bulldog]

Neither does Shanahan. As his own GM he has been ineffective. He has won ONE playoff game going back to 2005 with Denver and looks more and more like Norv Turner. The team seems to have no discipline on special teams, has consistently been beaten at the point of attack on both offense and defense, etc.

In my mind, Shanahan came in on a 5 year contract but has already had 4 years and that is enough to have shown the proper 'patience'.

I still can't get over Shanahan's statement to the media endorsing the plan to go with Rex Grossman and John Beck in 2011. He said Beck was a legitimate NFL quarterback.

Clearly that was not the case when Beck got on the field. Grossman was a turnover machine.

And that was after the McNabb fiasco.

Shanahan has failed as much because he has made several poor decisions regarding the quarterback position, the position where he supposedly is an acknowledged expert.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Yea but you act and argue the point as if you do. If you don't have concrete evidence and are just going on a feeling then debating people who are using actual evidence that is factually based is going to fail every time. I'm not giving Snyder any benefit of doubt, I'm just waiting for something factual before I get upset. I'm just as suspicious as one should be of an owner with this history, but again I say how many years does a guy have to keep with the track record Snyder has the last 4 years before this crap stops? A decade? Two? None of you answered this before, it's a legit question.

I argue the point as if I do? I've a) admitted to not having evidence, and b) said I'm not willing to give Snyder the benefit of the doubt. What about that argument makes me look like I'm arguing concrete evidence? Please tell me...

 

[tshile]

Ten years is absurd...sorry but that's not reasonable at all.

gotta go guys, talk later...getting major upgrade to internet.

after 13 years of what he's done, I don't find it that absurd.

What's reasonable is up to the individual to decide. That's what's great about this whole thing. I'm not held to your standards for giving people the benefit of the doubt, and you're not held to mine.

 

[fansince62]

Neither does Shanahan. As his own GM he has been ineffective. He has won ONE playoff game going back to 2005 with Denver and looks more and more like Norv Turner. The team seems to have no discipline on special teams, has consistently been beaten at the point of attack on both offense and defense, etc.

In my mind, Shanahan came in on a 5 year contract but has already had 4 years and that is enough to have shown the proper 'patience'.

I still can't get over Shanahan's statement to the media endorsing the plan to go with Rex Grossman and John Beck in 2011. He said Beck was a legitimate NFL quarterback.

Clearly that was not the case when Beck got on the field. Grossman was a turnover machine.

And that was after the McNabb fiasco.

Shanahan has failed as much because he has made several poor decisions regarding the quarterback position, the position where he supposedly is an acknowledged expert.

and the team surrendered 3 first round picks and a second - a huge, huge depth impact - and suffered a severe cap penalty. the core problem is lack of talent, IMO. multiple causes for that, including decisions made by Shanahan, Hazlet, Allen, et al. but Shanahan's failures didn't occur in a vacuum. Shanahan, for example, didn't create the Haynesworth debacle. he didn't handle it well. but he did not make the decisions that set all the gears in motion. as for McNabb, yea, in hindsight….bad decision. IMO, Shanahan didn't practice "due diligence". not an excuse, but teams whiff very year on QBs. heck, the Skins were doing this LONG before Shanahan arrived.

the STs suck cuz they don't have adequate talent on the roster. it all gets back to the same foundational issues.

the problem for this team has been and remains talent. it remains horrendous on defense. Shanahan has made improvements in that regard (vis overall talent on the roster - one cannot argue wrt RGIII, Reed, Garcon, Morris, Kerrigan, Williams, Cousins). there's more work to be done. others can wank all they want about "we've seen it before." the reality is that the roster still has to be improved and the team will go about doing that. and, no matter how much we fans dislike it, it will take more time. we need fewer whiffs, higher picks, and better evaluation.

are you arguing that losing three first round picks and the cap hits had no impact? I can agree that he performance, even with talent on hand, should have been better. how much better are you arguing?

 

[tshile]

Kyle Shanahan needs to give us an answer as to why the offensive system looks so different when Cousins is behind center.

What is the reason? Is it something he sees in practice, has he been on some mission to destroy Griffin all year, is Griffin just not capable of running that offense, is it actually the same offense and Griffin just sucks at staying in and moving the pocket and bails too quickly?

 

[Bulldog]

Certainly, the decision to give up those high draft choices had to include an assessment of the impact on the team.

If the depth here built the first couple of years was not strong enough to support such a major deal then perhaps it should not have been made. Perhaps Shanahan should have stayed at #6 and taken Ryan Tannehill instead.

But it's a circular argument for Shanahan now to say the major deal was necessary because we had failed to secure a solid qb through the McNabb, Grossman and Beck fiascos of the past, and at the same time the major deal is the reason we now can't field a competitive team!

 

[tshile]

We played a bad team yesterday and had no business being in a game with 7 turnovers.

I'm talking about the way the offense looks between the whistles. O line protection, QB in the pocket, quick throws, multiple options, guys running open, even long developing screens working, bootlegs...

Why is that stuff not being run when Griffin is in the game? Or is it, and he's just so bad at it, that it looks like a completely different offense? Or does he hate griffin so much he put him in a shit offense all year and now can do what he wants?

I think an honest answer to that from Kyle Shanahan would tell us 1000x more about what is going on, and the state of the redskins, and the best way forward than anything we've seen all year.

 

[fansince62]

Kyle Shanahan needs to give us an answer as to why the offensive system looks so different when Cousins is behind center.

What is the reason? Is it something he sees in practice, has he been on some mission to destroy Griffin all year, is Griffin just not capable of running that offense, is it actually the same offense and Griffin just sucks at staying in and moving the pocket and bails too quickly?

dude: you seeing the same things others are seeing? RGIII's mechanics have been off all season. there were some interesting clips last nigh on Cousins eye movements irt progressions. RGIII has been over/under-throwing receivers ALL season. he simply rushed back too soon and was physically/mentally unprepared. he lost a whole off-season of post-rookie year development. yup, the blocking hasn't been great. but RG has been his own worst enemy. KS can't formulate a plan if a key piece is continually mis-firing. sure, he could keep more backs in to block, have the TEs block/chip. but will that over-come the basic flaws in the QB this season? add in all the other screw-ups on this offense (e.g., constant dropped passes, too many penalties, etc.) and coaching never had a chance. not discounting bad game plans, lack of adjustments, etc. my belief is none of that would have made much difference. not with this defense, not with this o-line and not with all the mistakes THE PLAYERS CONTINUE TO MAKE.

addendum: I know you are seeing the problems with RGIII. Just trying to qualify KS observations since he has had to work with this. I can agree with all the bad play calls at times. but if the QB is simply not executing - not much anyone can do.

 

[fansince62]

Certainly, the decision to give up those high draft choices had to include an assessment of the impact on the team.

If the depth here built the first couple of years was not strong enough to support such a major deal then perhaps it should not have been made. Perhaps Shanahan should have stayed at #6 and taken Ryan Tannehill instead.

But it's a circular argument for Shanahan now to say the major deal was necessary because we had failed to secure a solid qb through the McNabb, Grossman and Beck fiascos of the past, and at the same time the major deal is the reason we now can't field a competitive team!

maybe. but this team has suffered a 20 year odyssey trying to find a long-term QB. it's not like Grossman/Beck were the first mistakes. we had the second pick and a chance to finally find a 10+ year solution to the problem. it was the best opportunity this team had at that time. so they went for it. I can't find fault with that. what were the other options at that time? we all knew the rebuild eld be drawn out because of the high cost. what remains problematic is the ROI. too early to tell, but I am looking at this season as one of those you suffer through.

what counts now is how we move forward. firing Shanahan with one year on his contract isn't cut and dried. it has positives and negatives. my focus is on the roster. that I can wrap my mind around. all the other stuff - especially given all the disinformation - just isn't enough to create understanding of what is going on behind the curtains.

 

[Cycleans]

I think quite often when the starting qb goes down, the opposing defense struggles to adjust a game plan. Usually last for a game or two. It's all good though Cousins is primarily a pocket passer with mobility. Griffin is learning the skill. Regardless Cousins took too many hard shots. I don't care who your qb is, you can't allow that and expect the QB to trust the protection. Atlanta has a defense almost as bad as ours, Dallas might be even worse. I like Cousins, I'm glad he's getting a shot to play and showcase his talents. He should have the opportunity to start in the NFL. The Skins could use the higher pick. 2 picks in the top 35 drafted has a nice ring to it.. I would like to be completely clear and state I'm on board with Griffin as the franchise qb. Cousins made some nice accurate deep throws yesterday...much better than Griffins deep throws.

 

[SkinsFTW]

Kyle Shanahan needs to give us an answer as to why the offensive system looks so different when Cousins is behind center.

What is the reason? Is it something he sees in practice, has he been on some mission to destroy Griffin all year, is Griffin just not capable of running that offense, is it actually the same offense and Griffin just sucks at staying in and moving the pocket and bails too quickly?

Its the same offense but Griffin can't run it at all so they go back to the read option BS thats not working much either.

Remember whenever they passed the ball 3 times in a row fans were in here crying because they were giving Griffin NO CHANCE because they didn't run?

Well last night Cousins had a stretch of 13-15 pass plays and kept moving the ball down the field to score a TD after Morris fumbled to stall a 5th drive because of fumbles. Did anybody ask why Morris wasn't getting the ball? Of course not, because it was WORKING.

With 7 total turnovers Cousins moved the ball better than we've seen our starter do it all year. Imagine if they don't fumble 5 times when Dallas shows up with their Defense next week.

By the time the season is over this might looks worse than Shuler/Frerotte.

 

[tshile]

Kirk Cousins and Kyle Shanahan had a secrete offense that they've been waiting 2 years to show us.
#progressioning
#grownmansgame

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

Kirk Cousins and Kyle Shanahan had a secrete offense that they've been waiting 2 years to show us.
#progressioning
#grownmansgame

It came from their pores?

I see a lot of selective memory going on here. If you think only Cousins has had a bevy of pass plays...

The reason some are wary of Cousins doing well is exactly what people are doing in the past few posts. Selective short sight memory, the same that had them telling us Colt Brennan or Todd Collins were going to do great things for us once upon a time.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Kirk Cousins and Kyle Shanahan had a secrete offense that they've been waiting 2 years to show us.

It came from their pores?

Ironic, since the offense oozed when Griff ran it, and flowed when Cousins ran it.

 

[DieselPwr44]

It came from their pores?

I see a lot of selective memory going on here. If you think only Cousins has had a bevy of pass plays...

The reason some are wary of Cousins doing well is exactly what people are doing in the past few posts. Selective short sight memory, the same that had them telling us Colt Brennan or Todd Collins were going to do great things for us once upon a time.

Ironic, since the offense oozed when Griff ran it, and flowed when Cousins ran it.

What I saw,IMO, is a QB that had a normal offseason vs one that didn't.

I like both QBs but let's be fair here.

 

[Bulldog]

IMO if Shanahan was smart he would have started Cousins the first 2-3 games of the year and give Griffin the chance to come back to practice and reacclimate himself.

We went into the opener with a player that had ZERO reps in the preseason and he looked dreadful. That first quarter of the season was a write off.

Sure, no one knew the special teams and defense were going to be this bad, but if we are so conscious of Griffin's health he should not have been out there in September.

It's just another example of the dysfunction. Whether it is Griffin dictating to Shanahan when he plays. Whether it is Snyder pressuring Shanahan to play Griffin or whether it is Shanahan looking to rebuild his relationship with Griffin after the fiasco in the playoff game against Seattle by starting him in the opener, it is a sign the ORGANIZATION is not operating at a level where you can expect the team to win consistently.

 

[tshile]

IMO if Shanahan was smart he would have started Cousins the first 2-3 games of the year and give Griffin the chance to come back to practice and reacclimate himself.

I agree with you but I don't really think it was an option at the time.

 

[Bulldog]

Right, but why? That's my point. No one is questioning that McCarthy and the Packers are being extra careful with Aaron Rodgers and have decided to start Flynn an extra week or two to be on the safe side. There is no one in Green Bay that is coming out in the papers and criticizing the staff or the front office. Meanwhile, Rodgers has not started any debate or controversy - he has supported his team.