Sport or Entertainment?

[Neophyte]

"If a sport revolves around following the performance of a star independent of a team, you are not following that sport, you are cheering for American Idol."

Discuss.

 

[Neophyte]

This really more in the context of team sports, Mike.

 

[Chris]

Is this a fantasy football question?

 

[Goaldeje]

That's the difference between the NFL and the NBA, right? The NBA has you cheering for players and the NFL has us cheering for laundry. So according to that quote, the NFL is sport, while the NBA is mere entertainment?

As an aside, I've often wondered if David Stern would change the course he set in the mid 80's pushing Magic, Larry and Michael so hard as individual stars. It works when you have transcendent stars like those I mentioned, but when your stars are Allen Iverson and his ilk, it doesn't work as well. That explains the dry spell the NBA had in the 00's, and if they had pushed laundry instead, maybe they wouldn't have experienced that dry spell.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Yeah, I don't get what sports you are talking about.

NASCAR is entertainment, not a sport. I guess that fits the mold you are talking about. Its a team effort in that the whole pit crew, spotters, etc. have to be on the same page with the driver, but you're really just watching the guy behind the wheel. Also, its not a sport because its in a car, lol.

Can't really think of any other examples - the NBA tends to be more 'one-on-one' rather than 'five-on-five,' but you still need a strong supporting cast to win a title, and people do cheer for the entire team. Baseball? That tends to hinge on individual performances a lot.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Because its the thread topic? Speaking of which, that post was completely off it. If you don't want to be offended by someone calling NASCAR not a sport, I suggest not entering a thread titled "Sport or Entertainment?" Just my 2 cents though.


Would Olympic swimming qualify?

 

[Neophyte]

I saw the quote in an article about the recently closed Transfer Window in Association Football. Some really big names changed teams with Clint Dempsey coming home to play in the US and Gareth Bale going from Tottenham in North London to Real Madrid. Also mentioned in the article were the Jordan lead Bulls. I thought it was something of relivance here with the Skins sporting such a transcendent and charismatic figure in the form of RGIII.

 

[Nobody]

Yeah, I don't get what sports you are talking about.

NASCAR is entertainment, not a sport. I guess that fits the mold you are talking about. Its a team effort in that the whole pit crew, spotters, etc. have to be on the same page with the driver, but you're really just watching the guy behind the wheel. Also, its not a sport because its in a car, lol.

Can't really think of any other examples - the NBA tends to be more 'one-on-one' rather than 'five-on-five,' but you still need a strong supporting cast to win a title, and people do cheer for the entire team. Baseball? That tends to hinge on individual performances a lot.

NASCAR is a sport. Personally, I don't watch NASCAR, golf, soccer, hockey, and a few others......but saying it's not a sport just because you aren't a fan of it is a little much. If you're competing against others, then technically it's a sport. It's the reason poker is on ESPN.

Being in a car has nothing to do with it. Football players aren't exactly exposing themselves either, they're a step away from being in robot suits. Does that mean football isn't a sport? From what I've heard over the years, racing is one of the most physically demanding sports around. They also compete against a bunch of other teams, so I don't see how you can say it isn't a sport.

For the record, I don't think there should be a line drawn between sport and entertainment. All sports are entertainment when it comes down to it. Nobody competes to pass time.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I saw the quote in an article about the recently closed Transfer Window in Association Football. Some really big names changed teams with Clint Dempsey coming home to play in the US and Gareth Bale going from Tottenham in North London to Real Madrid. Also mentioned in the article were the Jordan lead Bulls. I thought it was something of relivance here with the Skins sporting such a transcendent and charismatic figure in the form of RGIII.

No, because there are 11 guys on the other side of the ball that people root equally as hard for, and Griffin doesn't play one second of defense (not counting turnovers).

NASCAR is a sport. Personally, I don't watch NASCAR, golf, soccer, hockey, and a few others......but saying it's not a sport just because you aren't a fan of it is a little much. If you're competing against others, then technically it's a sport. It's the reason poker is on ESPN.

Being in a car has nothing to do with it. Football players aren't exactly exposing themselves either, they're a step away from being in robot suits. Does that mean football isn't a sport?

I love watching & playing poker, but I do not consider poker a sport either.

And "a step away from being in robot suits" is not remotely accurate so no, it does not mean that football isn't a sport. Besides, that's not the point I was making. I do not want to turn this into a NASCAR thread - I did not initially interpret what Neo was getting at with his OP, but now we know he was not looking for a NASCAR discussion.

 

[Neophyte]

No, because there are 11 guys on the other side of the ball that people root equally as hard for, and Griffin doesn't play one second of defense (not counting turnovers).

That doesn't mean that the Skins didn't gain some followers and watchers and, yes, even outright fans last year when Griffin was drafted just because they like the kid and want to see him do well.

I picked my English Premier League team based in part on Dempsey playing there. I became a Laker fan in the early 80's because of Magic Johnson. I am a Los Angeles Galaxy supporter largely because of Donovan.

Really, the Skins are the only team I root for based on geography.

So, if someone is a "fan" just because of a single player are they really a fan? If that player leaves and goes somewhere else, do you give up your allegiance to the old team and transfer it to the new team? There is a saying in England with regard to ones football club fandom that goes like this, "You can change your husband or wife, you can change your underpants, but you can never, ever change your team." Personally, I find this to be true. But we live in an age of superstars where the player is often the reason people are fans to begin with and now days, these players often change teams with alarming speed.

 

[Nobody]

"a step away from being in robot suits" is not remotely accurate so no, it does not mean that football isn't a sport.

Not remotely accurate? Have you watched football lately? Have you seen the uniforms change over the years? They went from jeans and shirts to so much padding they double their size by suiting up. For the record, I never said football wasn't a sport. I used Lanky logic. If I was off the mark, please explain what you meant by "NASCAR isn't a sport because it involves a car." If it's the fact that the car is a barrier between the driver and everything else, that is no different from a football player playing from inside a padded shell that acts a a barrier between him and everything else.

Besides, that's not the point I was making.

Care to clarify the point? You made a comment without elaborating, that's why I asked.

I do not want to turn this into a NASCAR thread - I did not initially interpret what Neo was getting at with his OP, but now we know he was not looking for a NASCAR discussion.

Every thread on every forum skews in multiple directions. It's the nature of conversation. When a thread is started with no clear direction, and the topic is very broad, it leaves it open to interpretation.

sport
spôrt
noun
1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

NASCAR is a sport.

I don't recall anyone handing you any tablets Moses, so adhering to the words you deliver isn't the way just because you say so. You really overreact any time someone disagrees with you, and you've been really touchy lately. Simmadownnow. It's not that serious.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

That doesn't mean that the Skins didn't gain some followers and watchers and, yes, even outright fans last year when Griffin was drafted just because they like the kid and want to see him do well.

I picked my English Premier League team based in part on Dempsey playing there. I became a Laker fan in the early 80's because of Magic Johnson. I am a Los Angeles Galaxy supporter largely because of Donovan.

Really, the Skins are the only team I root for based on geography.

So, if someone is a "fan" just because of a single player are they really a fan? If that player leaves and goes somewhere else, do you give up your allegiance to the old team and transfer it to the new team? There is a saying in England with regard to ones football club fandom that goes like this, "You can change your husband or wife, you can change your underpants, but you can never, ever change your team." Personally, I find this to be true. But we live in an age of superstars where the player is often the reason people are fans to begin with and now days, these players often change teams with alarming speed.

Its possible, but I would submit that the die-hard, true Redskins fans have always been and will always be team-first. If Griffin ever leaves (he better effin not, SNYDER), we will all still be Redskins fans (the true die-hards, that is). The bandwagon fans who have jumped on since Griffin joined the team? Sure, I guess you could consider those not really fans, but now I'm confused again about what the topic of the thread was.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Ex, if you want to continue the discussion, feel free to PM me and I will clarify whatever you want.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Is NASCAR a sport? Definitely. Having raced for the better part of a decade, I can say that I was much more exhausted after a race than any game of football I played in HS. It's very demanding. And make no mistake, it is a team sport.

That being said, you can fit any sport into the realm of entertainment. We pay for the pleasure to see our favorites in person or on TV. We usually buy the products they endorse.

I don't care for golf, but it is a sport. ESPN, FOX Sports, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. cover it as a sport. Good for golf. If NASCAR is not a sport, then ESPN, FOX, NBC, TNT, and every major sports outlet would not cover it as such. Same goes for Cricket. Bowling. Swimming. Fishing tournaments. If you don't like a sport, then so be it, but don't equate that to it not being a sport.

Next part...

Cheering for individual players is fine. If someone wants to do just that, it is their prerogative to do so. Being regional in your sports choices is fine too. I tend to be very loyal to my alma mater and that is part of why I never cheered for Tim Duncan (Wake Forest) in the recent NBA Finals (too, I have no desire to cheer for a team from Texas).

 

[Chris]

The world is full of front-runners. Why are there so many Steeler fans? Because they've won the most Super Bowls. The Bulls didn't draw flies until MJ. Ever met a Cowboy, Laker, Yankee, Duke fan? I have. Too many to count. Are they fans? yeah.

But not ones due any respect.

(And Nobody said poker is a sport.)

 

[Win4us]

AFN has been catching me up on Cricket lately. I swear that's the most boring friggin "sport" ever invented. Just turrible.

 

[tshile]

"If a sport revolves around following the performance of a star independent of a team, you are not following that sport, you are cheering for American Idol."

Discuss.

I agree with the quote, but that may be because I'm taking a little liberty in how I interpret it. To me it's about whether you're following a player or a team.

In reference to the redskins... and if this offends anyone then oh well...

The people that are cheering for the redskins because of Griffin are not cheering for redskins as a team playing a sport. They're cheering for a player they really like, and as a side item cheering for the redskins because and only because they have an intuition that the redskins being successful means Griffin is also having success, which is their root desire; ala American Idol. I know we have people like that here, please don't take that to mean I don't like you or am not enjoying your temporary stay in redskins nation because odds are I do like you and I am enjoying your stay; I'm just not delusional about why you're here or about the fact that when Griffin goes you'll like go as well.

Now maybe those people are fans of another team, but they're not fans of the Redskins.

Likewise there are people that are fans of the NFL but not of a specific team permanently; they're bandwagon fans, ala American Idol. They're looking to be entertained by the product, they're not interested in dealing with a losing team. They don't want to put in the work to get the ultimate joy; and let's not kid ourselves, those people do not experience the level of joy those of us here will when our team finally wins another superbowl, or the level of joy other real fans enjoy when their team wins, because our joy won't be... fake, inflated, or based on temporarily aligning ourselves with something we don't actually have any emotional connection to or history with.

I don't look down on those people - they are what they are, and presumably they're doing what makes them happy, so good for them. I just don't like when they lie about what they are. Hey - I'm a bandwagon baseball and hockey fan, I watch the Capitals and Nationals for entertainment purposes, not for the sport. You wont catch me trying to convince some out of towner I've been following them since I was 5. I don't get in arguments with real fans of those teams about what is wrong, why things are the way they are, etc; I give them respect in their opinions because they're likely more informed than mine. If those types of fans were honest about what they were there wouldn't be such animosity towards them.

I guess I basically associate the "American Idol" fans as bandwagon fans - seeking entertainment.


RE: Nascar - I find it hard to consider something that is so involved in machinery a sport. I have a hard time considering golf a sport, and I love playing and watching golf. There are many things I don't consider sports in the Olympics. I consider those things competitions. In no way is that meant to degrade what they do or imply that what they do isn't hard or that I could easily replace them and do just as well, it just isn't a sport in my opinion. If that bothers you then you should consider not letting other people's opinions on what is and isn't a sport bother you, because who the hell cares what anyone else thinks. If you enjoy it then enjoy it and let everyone else kick rocks.

 

[tshile]

So, if someone is a "fan" just because of a single player are they really a fan? If that player leaves and goes somewhere else, do you give up your allegiance to the old team and transfer it to the new team?

To me you answered your own question.

There are people that came here because of Griffin that will become fans of the Redskins. When Griffin leaves, regardless of circumstances, they'll still cheer for the redskins. They will have become fans - though they didn't start out that way. There will be those that stop cheering for the team, those people are not and never were fans of the team - of the sporting team. They were fans of the entertainment team.

 

[tshile]

Also, Griffin might be a bad example because (as far as anyone can see) he's going to be here a while. There's a solid chance that the people that came here because of him will become fans and develop the emotional attachment to the team we have over time, so when Griffin retires they retain that fandom.

For the exact opposite situation I'm reminded of the Colt Brenan fan club. Those people were not, at any point, Redskins fans. Oh, they used to argue they were because they thought he would be here for a while. But where are they now...

 

[servumtuum]

In reference to the idea of a "team" fan versus an "idol" fan I would ask this question-what made you a Redskins fan in the first place? You family? Was you father/mother/grandfather/grandmother or other close family member the influence that pushed you into the Redskins fan fold? Was it the Hogs-not just a member but the group that became known as "the Hogs?" In my case it was George Allen-I liked his style and what he did with the Redskins made me start rooting for them even after he left.


Basically, I'm agreeing with Neo-whatever it was that made you a Redskins fan-if you are still a fan even if what drew you there is gone-you are a fan of the Redskins as a team.

IMO,anyway.

If RG3 is why you root for the Redskins-I understand and am cool with it. Not everybody is a fan in the same way. I have very little "brand loyalty" to any particular team in any other sport for instance-or in most other aspects of life actually.

The Redskins are my sports team-the only one I stick with and pull for no matter what is going on with the team. Do I have explanation for that? Not really, unless it's that I have a limited supply of "fandom" available and the Redskins get it all.