The Most Damning Evidence Against Jason Campbell

  • Thread starter Lanky Livingston
  • Start date
Kind of like how Campbell completely CARVED UP the 30th ranked Detroit Lions defense to win the game? Or how he DISMANTLED the 25th ranked Rams defense for zero touchdowns? Or maybe you were most impressed by his DESTRUCTION of the 31st ranked Chiefs defense? That one must be it...that was the impressive one! ;)

Sorry, Lanky, but I'm gonna have to let a little air out of those tires.

Those were pre-Sherm Lewis and more variety in play-calling, pre-Oline shuffling, pre-new and obviously more effective backfield, pre-"Hey guys ya think maybe if we started throwing to Thomas and Kelly 'n' stuff it might do some good?"
 
oh no bud..this is about YOU quoting about how YOU agree with how Vince Young is some stud of a QB now because he has come back and played a few good games.

keep trying to flip it to where you can hate on Campbell but when you try to use someone who was benched for Collins you are really putting yourself out there.

Alright, well you've completely lost me now.
1) I quote Steinberg who said Campbell was no Vince Young, who is a proven winner in this league (9 of his last 10 starts he has FOUND ways to win the ball game).
2) You tried to discredit Young by saying he was playing a not-so-good Cardinals defense, so his 18-pass, 99-yard game winning drive shouldn't count.
3) I countered with Campbell's performances against even WORSE defenses, in which he failed to win, or could not score a touchdown.

Also, Collins took over for an injured Young, Young was never benched. He then failed to win back his starting job, true, but he was not benched. During the 13-3 season, Fisher chose to stick with the hot hand, cause the team was winning with Collins. Plus, Kerry Collins has been a good QB in this league for many years, he's not exactly Jeff George.

Sorry, Lanky, but I'm gonna have to let a little air out of those tires.

Those were pre-Sherm Lewis and more variety in play-calling, pre-Oline shuffling, pre-new and obviously more effective backfield, pre-"Hey guys ya think maybe if we started throwing to Thomas and Kelly 'n' stuff it might do some good?"

Okay fine, how about the 28th-ranked Atlanta Falcons? Sherm was calling the plays in Atlanta, and it didn't matter one bit.
 
In the game with the Falcons, Campbell was 15 for 22 for 196 yards passing with 1 TD and 1 INT-passer rating 92.2.
 
Regardless of Campbell's progression or regression at this point what we need is to shore up the offensive line. Like someone (WD I think) suggested in another thread, I would rather have Jason Campbell and Russel Okung than Jimmy Claussen or Colt McCoy and Levi Jones.
 
I give up...you've somehow twisted this debate into something unrecognizable, when my original point is that Jason Campbell is not a clutch QB.
 
196 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT is your counter? I rest my case. :)

You left out the 15 for 22 part, Lanky. That is 8.9 yards per attempt which is pretty darn good for an NFL QB. Payton is at 8.0 and Brady 7.6. Only Brees and Rivers are in this range for the season.

Granted, Campbell needs to improve on the average for this and this one game does not a season make but he did 8.7 this week against NO.

I guess I see your original point about Campbell not being "clutch" although I think there is a lot that goes into that. It's a team game and everyone has to elevate their play together. Campbell was doing a nice job in OT against NO until Sellers fumbled. Who knows where that drive would have gone if he hangs onto the ball?

I think of Favre earlier this year with game winning TD to Greg Lewis against SF. The throw was just ok. Lewis on the other hand made a spectacular, All Pro catch to haul that in and score. Favre gets credit for the game winning drive but in reality the receiver really bailed him out.

I have not seen a lot of bailing Campbell out by the anyone else on the team.

Just sayin...
 
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ok.

Young's stats since coming back

125 and 1 TD vs JAX
172 and 0 TD vs SF
210 and 1 TD and 1 INT vs BUF
116 and 1 TD vs Hou
387 and 1 TD vs AZ
241 and 2 TD and 1 INT vs INDY

what case are you resting again? VY is that much better?

what case is it that you are making here? And why are you holding on to Young being a better QB when nothing proves it?

Mike, in another thread you just lambasted Serv for using stats in an argument against Marcus Mason, but here you are using stats to support your argument.

It is simple, without Young this year, the Titans were 0-6. With Young they reeled off 5 straight wins with at least one being a dramatic 99 yard drive to win the game. Sure he lost to the Colts this year, but so has every one else! I think the time Young had to sit the bench gave him a better understanding of the game and time to mature. I had given up on him as a pro QB, but he seems to have developed.

3 years into the JC experiment in DC and he has yet to consistently put together 4th quarter drives to hold onto a lead or to win a game. In fact this year he has had not one single come from behind late 4th quarter drive to win the game.
 
I think of Favre earlier this year with game winning TD to Greg Lewis against SF. The throw was just ok. Lewis on the other hand made a spectacular, All Pro catch to haul that in and score. Favre gets credit for the game winning drive but in reality the receiver really bailed him out.

I have not seen a lot of bailing Campbell out by the anyone else on the team.

Just sayin...


I agree and disagree...Favre's throw was in the only place it *could* have been for Lewis to catch it. Anywhere else and its probably knocked down or intercepted. Yes Lewis made a phenomenal play, but Favre not only scrambled around to get free, he put it in the only place it could have been for Lewis to catch it.

As far as bailing out Campbell - you are correct. I mean, just look at Suisham. However, as many times as he hasn't been "bailed out" by his teammates, Campbell has missed wide-open receivers, thrown picks, or fumbled. So I think its a wash.

It also goes back to my other point - great QBs make everyone else better. I mean, Greg Lewis was mediocre in Philly for years, and then he makes that spectacular catch? Who knew he had that in him? Definitely not me.
 
its called fighting fire with fire and I was getting on a level that he was on. Dont throw that up in my face like im a hypocrite because I am not.

How many off the field issues has Campbell had? How many pictures doing things he shouldnt be are circulating of Jason? How many times has his mom called the cops because she was concerned for his well being?

I guess Kyle Orton is a pretty damn good QB too then if we can use 6 games as a measuring stick.

3 years in to the Campbell "experiment" and he still has not had a decent OL to be behind. I cant blame the guy for being gun shy or looking like "a deer in headlights" most of the time because usually he is about to get slammed.

Off field issues or not, Young has done something this year that JC has not, a game winning drive in the 4th quarter with half the chances to do it. JC has not had a game winning drive since early last season. That is what we mean by clutch. I am not saying Young is the next Manning or Brees, but he has done something JC has not done in over a year, a come from behind game winning TD late in the game. Clutch!
 
Yeah, I don't know if Campbell is the root of all our problems in Washington. Is he clutch? No, not really; but he isn't TERRIBLE, and the guy does (to quote our beloved former coach) "fight his guts out". There's no quit in him.

I think this offseason needs to be spent patching up our front line and changing our identity as a whole. Hopefully, that'll mean the end of Cerrato's time in D.C.
 
He has played better of late, until that INT against the Saints.



Mike, you can't be serious. Maybe if he wasn't put in position to make horrible decisions? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but the only person who puts him in position to make a bad decision is Jason Campbell. He's the one who locks into receivers, he's the one who doesn't see open running lanes some times, he's the one who doesn't throw the ball away.

Also, I am not "on a mission," I simply shared something from a DC sports blogger I found interesting. It is pretty damning evidence though, don't you think?

You can't honestly say he hasn't improved. I used to blast the heck out of him on ES, but you have to give credit where it's due. He HAS gotten better. To the point where I wouldn't mind keeping him an extra year if we have to. And the loss against the Saints was in NO way Jasons fault. That was our old (thank God) kicker's fault 150%.

BTW, hi everyone, first day here, first post here. From ES and thought I'd try something new. I'm under a totally different username. Can u tell who I am?:cool4:
 
Yeah, I don't know if Campbell is the root of all our problems in Washington. Is he clutch? No, not really; but he isn't TERRIBLE, and the guy does (to quote our beloved former coach) "fight his guts out". There's no quit in him.

I think this offseason needs to be spent patching up our front line and changing our identity as a whole. Hopefully, that'll mean the end of Cerrato's time in D.C.

This points in the general direction of what all my posts in this thread have been based upon. In the Saints game, for a number of reasons, Campbell was afforded an opportunity to operate at QB and utilize all the skills he has-and he did a marvelous job. You want to talk stats, well, take a look at these:

30 for 42 passing, 71.4% completion rate, 367 yards, 3TDs, 1 INT, passer rating 111.9, 0 sacks(!)

Pretty damned impressive. Under the right circumstances, Jason Campbell can perform admirably. When I posted earlier about the team itself freezing in the clutch-I forgot to add something. I believe the coaching staff is a major part of this team's failure to win close games. With the changes that have been recently made, the team is performing better, they're giving more effort, the scheme changes have definitely made it easier for the offense to move the ball. The offense is more open, more daring, more "taking it to the opponents defense". Until it's in the second half of the fourth quarter-then things seem to go into a "Oh, God, we gotta slow down and play conservatively or we'll lose it". Which is usually what then happens. Frankly, I think this is a bullsh*t way to approach the situation. Momentum gets lost, focus and intensity wanes, players start trying too hard not to screw up rather than continuing to try to put the game away. I've heard it said that the more you try to be quiet by tiptoeing around the more noise you're going to make.

Jason Campbell isn't perfect, but he's better than I thought he was early on. He still has a problem making quick reads and quick decisions and holding on to the ball too long and getting into trouble because of it. However, I tend to look at a team as a whole and try not to single out a player as the "goat", sometimes I fail at this but I do try. Had he played against NO like he had early in the season, I'd be anxious to bid him farewell. If, however, the team/scheme/playcalling/personnel changes continue to work and the coaches grow some cojones during the last 8-10 minutes of the fourth quarter, I may just have to reexamine my perspective on some things.

The next couple of games could be interesting in judging the direction things might go.

Just sayin'
 
WOW!! a game winning drive against a horrible defense? /sarcasm

Come on Mike, Lanky addressed this. JC has had 9 chances this season for late game winning drives and 3 of them came against 3 of the worst defenses in the NFL, yet he has come up short in every one of them!

Look, Young has a lot more to prove before we can call this streak anything more than a fluke, but he has still done something JC has not done since last year and has had far less chances to do so against worse defenses. Jason Campbell has not had a late game winning drive against anyone this year and 3 of those teams had worse defenses than Arizona.

You can't honestly say he hasn't improved. I used to blast the heck out of him on ES, but you have to give credit where it's due. He HAS gotten better. To the point where I wouldn't mind keeping him an extra year if we have to. And the loss against the Saints was in NO way Jasons fault. That was our old (thank God) kicker's fault 150%.

Lanky and I have had to argue this point much of this season. We cannot argue against the progression of JC since Lewis has come aboard. What we are saying is that even with that progression Jason Campbell has come up short in every shot to win a clutch game this season, with or without Lewis calling the plays and the progression of his play.

Was the loss against the Saints Jason Campbell's fault, yes and no. We had a large enough lead to win that game. Suisham let us down and the defense let us down after the FG was missed. But clutch QB's in this league take advantage fo the 1:28 left in a game to drive their teams down the field to give that kicker a chance at redemption. Instead JC threw a stupid INT. That is what non-clutch QB's do.
 
Lanky and I have had to argue this point much of this season. We cannot argue against the progression of JC since Lewis has come aboard. What we are saying is that even with that progression Jason Campbell has come up short in every shot to win a clutch game this season, with or without Lewis calling the plays and the progression of his play.

Was the loss against the Saints Jason Campbell's fault, yes and no. We had a large enough lead to win that game. Suisham let us down and the defense let us down after the FG was missed. But clutch QB's in this league take advantage fo the 1:28 left in a game to drive their teams down the field to give that kicker a chance at redemption. Instead JC threw a stupid INT. That is what non-clutch QB's do.

I don't understand how we can even bring whether or not he's clutch into the discussion. There are too many other variables that play a part in a QB's success, O-line included.

Our team has played much better the past few games b/c of the changes made in play calling, having backups play their tales off, better O line play, and possibly even some of the vets sitting out letting the younger, hungrier guys take over.

All of this should have been happening from day 1, but it wasn't. Once we started to address playcalling, and the other things fell into place (mentioned above), Jason miraculously starts to play better. I don't think this is a coincidence. I think JC would have been playing better all season if all of the other factors were in place as they are now.

And honestly, IMO, Zorn and his crappy play calling is what held Jason back the most. Not to mention, his "mediumness" does nothing but show lack of leadership. He, along w/ Vinny, should be the first to get the boot IMO.
 
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I'll say this right here and now.....

If this franchise is dumb enough to blow our high 1st round pick on a QB and not address the line (AGAIN) then they WILL....NEVER....LEARN.

We'll have another QB thrown around like a rag doll and in 2013 be having the same stupid ******* conversation that we're having now and that we had in 2004-2005 (Ramsey).

I hope you haven't forgotten the idiotic Brunell vs. Ramsey wars of the past.

We better be drafting a LT with our first round pick.
B/C to gamble on a old, crippled offensive line to me is a fireable offense.
YOU SHOULDN'T BE THE REDSKINS WATERBOY CERRATO!!!!!

But if we don't (we won't b/c our FO/owner is more stupid than Steve Martin's character in The Jerk) then the FO better find a coach and a system and stick with it for the next five years so the new kid can actually develop for a freaking change.

The Skins are notorious for doing this. Ramsey was drafted to play in Spurrier's system (I suppose, he didn't seem to fit well). Campbell was drafted to play in Gibb's system but was then expected to excel in Saunders and now Zorn's schemes.

My god this is driving me crazy as I see the team's future continue to swirl down the toilet.
 
I cant imagine what he would do if he had Chris Johnson and a steady group of guys on the OL.

remember when he had 0 INTs and we were all so pleased with him and how well he played? yeah, how far ago last season seems.

If he had those guys, my assertion is that with the game on the line and plenty of time to drive his team down the field for a TD to win or to kick a game winning FG, he would throw an INT to Jonathan Vilma!
 
I don't understand how we can even bring whether or not he's clutch into the discussion....

First off, welcome to the board. I meant to say that in my earlier reply.

As for the statement above, it is because this thread is about "The Most Damning Evidence Against JC".

Look, I agree with all your points. Everything has gotten better except the decision making in the pivotal times of the game. Jason should not have been in the position to have to drive down the field for a game winning drive at the end of the Saints game. He had played so well throughout the game.

But with 1:28 left in the game with good field position, he threw and INT to Vilma on a pass that should have been thrown 5 yards further down field so Fred Davis was the only one who had a chance to catch it with a wide open field in front of him. Instead he tried to force it and Vilma saw it coming and got the INT. That one is on Jason and that is Clutch time.
 
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First off, welcome to the board. I meant to say that in my earlier reply.

As for the statement above, it is because this thread is about "The Most Damning Evidence Against JC".

Look, I agree with all your points. Everything has gotten better except the decision making in the pivotal times of the game. Jason should not have been in the position to have to drive down the field for a game winning drive at the end of the Saints game. He had played so well throughout the game.

But with 1:28 left in the game, he threw and INT to Vilma on a pass that should have been thrown 5 yards further down field so Fred Davis was the only one who had a chance to catch it with a wide open field in front of him. Instead he tried to force it and Vilma saw it coming and put himself into perfect position ot get the INT. That one is on Jason and that is Clutch time.

Fair enough. I'm not saying he's another Peyton Manning. All I'm saying is that he's shown enough improvement w/ the other variables in place that I think he deserves more time. Plus, we have more important issues that need to be addressed in the draft besides QB.

Thanks for the welcome!
 
Fair enough. I'm not saying he's another Peyton Manning. All I'm saying is that he's shown enough improvement w/ the other variables in place that I think he deserves more time. Plus, we have more important issues that need to be addressed in the draft besides QB.

Thanks for the welcome!


Yeah Walking Deadmand put it best, I would rather have Jason Campbell and Russel Okung than Jimmy Claussen and Levi Jones.
 

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