In a tie for the 6th Pick with the Jaguars, the tie-breaker goes to.......

[Fear The Spear]

You guys better pace yourself. It's ****ing January.

We're making up for not having an offseason last year.

Not 48 hours removed from the end of the regular season no less!

What are you guys talking about ??

This draft mania started long before the season ended !!

It started in the middle of the 2011 season, with all the talk of tanking games, and hoping for losses, to jockey for draft position !!

 

[Elephant]

Matt Cassel and Kevin Kolb were highly thought of backup quarterbacks who played well on championship caliber teams and then were dealt for high picks.

How have they done to date?

Kolb seems to be taking a back seat to Skelton and Cassel may not be back in KC if the team signs Orton going forward.

Before the Redskins leap for a guy that has had TWO good games in the 3 plus years he has been in the NFL, some due diligence needs to be conducted.

And then there is Matt Schaub who Atlanta dealt because they had Vick, and Drew Brees who found his way to NO because he would not likely be paid for or even guaranteed the starting job in San Diego after he tore his labrum.

The problem with the 2 players you mentioned is they cost draft picks. And while the jury is still out on Cassel if he can recover from his injury, I was laughing at Arizona when they traded for Kolb. But Flynn would not cost us any compensation other than monetary.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

exactly, if we dont at least TRY to get flynn i will lose faith.

 

[servumtuum]

And then there is Matt Schaub who Atlanta dealt because they had Vick, and Drew Brees who found his way to NO because he would not likely be paid for or even guaranteed the starting job in San Diego after he tore his labrum.

The problem with the 2 players you mentioned is they cost draft picks. And while the jury is still out on Cassel if he can recover from his injury, I was laughing at Arizona when they traded for Kolb. But Flynn would not cost us any compensation other than monetary.

Flynn would cost us if Green Bay slaps a franchise tag on him which would make him immediately $14.5 million richer and put the Packers in a position to work a trade deal for him. I know our friend from Packerland, APB has expressed the opinion that the Packers probably won't tag Flynn in order to tag Jermichael Finley but there's a kind of fierce debate among Packers fans over the merits of either, and myself, I'm not so sure Ted Thompson would let Flynn walk without getting something in return. Besides Finley's performance has been spotty of late and he's developed a DeAngelo Hall-like tendency to run his mouth a bit too much so there's a certain amount of anti-Finley sentiment around. Teams like the Jets and Seattle, who aren't positioned good enough in the draft to move up to grab one of the top QBs just might be interested in Flynn as a viable option-there are teams not in the top ten pick area who have generally acknowledged QB issues-and various scenarios have been posited that hint at the possibility of something similar to the Kolb-to-Arizona arrangement.

Also he'd cost us a comp pick as a UFA anyway-I believe 3rd rounder in 2013.

I'm not saying stay away from Flynn just pointing out he's not gonna be a "freebie."

Another thing I'm inclined to consider that might relate to the Tannehill idea. In the last draft we passed up on Gabbert to get some extra picks-a truly excellent move in retrospect. It also indicated to me that Gabbert's ability wasn't considered good enough to be grabbed. Remember Bruce Allen is hot on the "value per dollar spent" side of the equation also. Given that we have several major holes, grabbing Flynn would give Shanahan/Allen a lot of options to make serious mover toward filling holes that are badly needed-not just Blackmon but how about Dre Kirkpatrick the CB from Alabama, for instance?

You want me to really cause goosebumps to appear? Don't rule out guys like Geno Smith at WVa or Nick Foles at AZ as potential "Huh?" QB targets. Shanahan likes to surprise people sometimes.

I'm just throwing out ideas in order to expand the horizons of the discussion and encourage "creative" ideas.

BTW, Om-good to see ya buddy.

 

[Neophyte]

Also he'd cost us a comp pick as a UFA anyway-I believe 3rd rounder in 2013.

I'm not saying stay away from Flynn just pointing out he's not gonna be a "freebie."

Serv,

I'm confused. If he is an Unrestricted Free Agent, why would he cost us a comp pick?

 

[Elephant]

Tagging a backup QB? Ok, you could be right. I just don't see it. Green Bay may want compensation, but they are running a costly risk in that scenario. As for trading for him? The whole reason I would want him here is because would not cost us any draft picks. How would we have to compensate with a 3rd rounder if he's a free agent?

As for other options with a 6th pick, I am not sure I would be opposed to seeing Justin Blackmon in a Redskins' uniform. He is the WR we have been looking for in stature and we need to get younger and add size in the #1 receiver position. While Hankerson showed potential, Blackmon should start right away if he were to come here.

Dre Kirkpatrick? Can't say I know enough about him, but if he is Patrick Peterson talented, I say yes! We need a shut down corner and move D-Hall to nickel.

 

[servumtuum]

Tagging a backup QB? Ok, you could be right. I just don't see it. Green Bay may want compensation, but they are running a costly risk in that scenario. As for trading for him? The whole reason I would want him here is because would not cost us any draft picks. How would we have to compensate with a 3rd rounder if he's a free agent?

As for other options with a 6th pick, I am not sure I would be opposed to seeing Justin Blackmon in a Redskins' uniform. He is the WR we have been looking for in stature and we need to get younger and add size in the #1 receiver position. While Hankerson showed potential, Blackmon should start right away if he were to come here.

Dre Kirkpatrick? Can't say I know enough about him, but if he is Patrick Peterson talented, I say yes! We need a shut down corner and move D-Hall to nickel.

The 3rd round comp pick for Flynn was mentioned in an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel online edition:

Flynn, who set a club record for passing yards (480) and touchdowns (six) in the Packers' 45-41 victory over the Detroit Lions on Sunday, is an unrestricted free agent after the season.

Once the free agency period begins, he is eligible to sign with any team in the league with no compensation paid to the Packers, other than a "compensatory" draft choice from the NFL for losing a free agent. That pick would come in the 2013 draft and the highest it would be is at the end of the third round.

Link: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/flynn-departure-may-not-aid-packers-k43ld06-136557403.html

If we grabbed Flynn, El, we'd just about have to grab Blackmon or somebody close to his ability at WR. Even without Greg Jennings Green Bay's WR corps is light-years ahead of ours. After Gaffney and Moss we really don't have all that much. However, we pick at #39 as well and I don't think all the potentially very good WRs will be gone in the first 38 picks. Flynn is used to good receivers and we need more-I'll grant you that. I'm just putting out potential scenarios to consider. Dre Kirkpatrick is very highly graded because he's 6'-3" 192 lbs, fast enough to keep up with the best receivers in the college game, excellent leaping ability, an excellent tackler and one who loves to hit hard-several mock drafts have him as the best CB in the draft.

 

[Elephant]

The 3rd round comp pick for Flynn was mentioned in an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel online edition:



Link: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/flynn-departure-may-not-aid-packers-k43ld06-136557403.html

If we grabbed Flynn, El, we'd just about have to grab Blackmon or somebody close to his ability at WR. Even without Greg Jennings Green Bay's WR corps is light-years ahead of ours. After Gaffney and Moss we really don't have all that much. However, we pick at #39 as well and I don't think all the potentially very good WRs will be gone in the first 38 picks. Flynn is used to good receivers and we need more-I'll grant you that. I'm just putting out potential scenarios to consider. Dre Kirkpatrick is very highly graded because he's 6'-3" 192 lbs, fast enough to keep up with the best receivers in the college game, excellent leaping ability, an excellent tackler and one who loves to hit hard-several mock drafts have him as the best CB in the draft.

OK, but you said it would cost us a compensatory 3rd round. GB would get one from the league for him, not us. Or was I reading something wrong?

As for KirkPatrick, I was watching Ras-I Dowling play for NE before his season ended. His height was ideal and he looked solid. That is definitely a trait you would want in a CB. Add to that the speed and coverage skills that they say Kirkpatrick possesses and that is a CB we should think about. They almost have to be big like that anymore to compete with the likes of Calvin Johnson, Dez Bryant and other big boys.

Look, at this point since we are not going to get Luck, which I never really thought was an option for us, I just want us to pick the best player available. We really do need help everywhere, but a shut down corner, big bodied #1 WR, QB, LT...whichever can be had at #6 is who I want. If we trade down and acquire another Ryan Kerrigan at whatever position it is we choose a player in that scenario is fine by me, especially if it gives us a shot at a 2nd tier raw young QB.


Edit: Speaking of compensatory picks...will we get something for losing Carlos Rogers last year?

 

[Jimbo]

Edit: Speaking of compensatory picks...will we get something for losing Carlos Rogers last year?

Considering he made the Pro Bowl we could conceivably get as high as a 3rd or as low as a 5th.

To me, the biggest quandry is....do we try to sign Flynn/acquire Manning during the FA period or wait until the draft and gamble on moving up (and sell the farm) to nab Luck or Griffin. Missing out on Flynn/Manning/Luck/Griffin means Rex or another retread vet starts the next year or two while a guy like Tannehill or someone else sits and learns. The prospect of that makes my head and stomach hurt.

 

[servumtuum]

OK, but you said it would cost us a compensatory 3rd round. GB would get one from the league for him, not us. Or was I reading something wrong?

As for KirkPatrick, I was watching Ras-I Dowling play for NE before his season ended. His height was ideal and he looked solid. That is definitely a trait you would want in a CB. Add to that the speed and coverage skills that they say Kirkpatrick possesses and that is a CB we should think about. They almost have to be big like that anymore to compete with the likes of Calvin Johnson, Dez Bryant and other big boys.

Look, at this point since we are not going to get Luck, which I never really thought was an option for us, I just want us to pick the best player available. We really do need help everywhere, but a shut down corner, big bodied #1 WR, QB, LT...whichever can be had at #6 is who I want. If we trade down and acquire another Ryan Kerrigan at whatever position it is we choose a player in that scenario is fine by me, especially if it gives us a shot at a 2nd tier raw young QB.


Edit: Speaking of compensatory picks...will we get something for losing Carlos Rogers last year?

"OK, but you said it would cost us a compensatory 3rd round. GB would get one from the league for him, not us. Or was I reading something wrong?"

Nope. My bad.

"Speaking of compensatory picks...will we get something for losing Carlos Rogers last year?"

We have already-a boatload of "WTF?" watching him do so well with the 49ers.

 

[Goaldeje]

And then there is Matt Schaub who Atlanta dealt because they had Vick, and Drew Brees who found his way to NO because he would not likely be paid for or even guaranteed the starting job in San Diego after he tore his labrum.

The problem with the 2 players you mentioned is they cost draft picks. And while the jury is still out on Cassel if he can recover from his injury, I was laughing at Arizona when they traded for Kolb. But Flynn would not cost us any compensation other than monetary.

He would cost us time, El. My fear is that he would buy a couple of years of hope, but then turn out to be the fools gold that AJ Feeley, Cassell, etc were. The good news is that backup QBs from the Packers (Hassellbeck) don't seem to play as poorly as backup QBs from the Eagles do. As long as his contract demands aren't absurd, I think the plan to grab him and draft a developmental guy may be the way to go.

 

[Oldfan]

Except for highlights, I haven't seen Matt Flynn play. However, every QB in the NFL, even Rex Grossman, would improve sharply by playing in the Green Bay scheme with Green Bay's great set of receivers. So, I have concern about Flynn being overrated.

 

[burgold]

There is definitely a danger of an Andy Reid effect for Flynn. Any Qb seemingly prospered under Reid in Philadelphia and then busted elsewhere. The same could be true of Matt Flynn.

There are stories that go the other way. Schaub, Farve, Brees, Doug Williams, and Steve Young being notable guys who excelled on their second club.

 

[Henry]

There is definitely a danger of an Andy Reid effect for Flynn. Any Qb seemingly prospered under Reid in Philadelphia and then busted elsewhere. The same could be true of Matt Flynn.

There are stories that go the other way. Schaub, Farve, Brees, Doug Williams, and Steve Young being notable guys who excelled on their second club.

Backups are notorious for coming in for a game or two and lighting things up. But there's a big difference between playing spot duty and being The Man. I would say there are probably more Scott Mitchells than Matt Hasselbecks out there, so Flynn would definitely be a risk.

That said, there's something to be said for bringing in a QB without spending picks on him, and I like the idea of drafting a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round as a bit of insurance against Flynn busting out.

But yeah, I need to see more of the guy before making my own judgement.

 

[fansince62]

depends on his time in the league/free agency status. Flynn was drafted in the seventh round and has been in the league 4 years. the 2010 CBA redefined restricted free agency to cover players who have been in the league 5 years (i.e., must be in the league 6 years to be unrestricted FA). There are some restrictions on who can sign restricted FAs, but I don't know the details. The Pack could, in theory, also franchise him (signing cost then becomes 2 first round choices).

7th round? One year in College as starting QB? Two games as a starting QB in he league over 4 years? wellllllll....I'm thinking due diligence really wickers in here! no way you hand over draft picks. this is Flynn's shot - so his agent will press for starting QB numbers.

the uncertainty is too great....IMO. pay starting QB numbers....constrained by limited starting experience/track record. and do not sacrifice any draft picks or other players.

 

[Elephant]

See this is the line of thinking that always baffles me. While many of you bring up Matt Cassell and AJ Feeley types as proof that backups don't work, you swoon over a young draft choice who has never seen an NFL defense first hand. It's all about risk/reward. Andrew Luck should be a good one, but he's never played at the NFL level. RGIII should be a solid NFL QB, but if he depends on his athletic ability then he will get crushed with the level of athleticism in the NFL at the LB and DE position in today's game.

I am more inclined to take a 26 yr old QB who has shown that he can thrive in a certain scheme in the NFL without making tragic errors. Hell, Rex has shown he can do great things in the offense, his problem is he doesn't know how to adjust when plays break down and Matt Flynn has shown against a couple of good teams he can do that in the NFL. He has some mobility, more arm strength than credited, critical thinking when things break down, and intuition to scan a defense from the line of scrimmage and adjust the play accordingly.

Do I believe Matt Flynn is Tom Brady? No! He is Matt Flynn. Is he a product of the scheme? Well yes! But he is taking full advantage of his opportunities. Could he succeed in Washington? Well if Matt Schaub can succeed under Kyle (#1 offense in the NFL) then there is no reason Flynn shouldn't be at least better leadership than Rex Grossman in Washington.

Goal, you mentioned time, well I suggest to you that Shanahan does not have time to go with a rookie at QB. If we don't, that means Rex gets the nod. Why on earth would we not sign a QB who we know can come in and start, or at least has greater chance of reward than a rookie who has never seen an NFL defense or Rex who has?

 

[Goaldeje]

It just feels like we're arguing, I don't think we are.



It will be interesting to see how the new rookie salary scale plays into this whole equation. For years, it was cheaper to take a shot on a guy like Flynn rather than pay out a Sam Bradford contract. That's different now, and it will be interesting to see how it affects teams decision making.

Regardless, as I think you feel El, if Flynn's contract demands are exorbinant, ditch the idea. If reasonable, go for it and draft a youngin later as well, for insurance.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Elephant]

Drafting a youngin' is a must in my opinion. I just don't see anyone we are likely to get, starting right away. It would be nice to have a veteran come in and push Rex out of the starting position.

And I don't think we're arguing, just countering proposals/ideas. Now fansince, I have never really been in an argument with him! Bring it fs62! Oldfan, you want some?

 

[servumtuum]

... Now fansince, I have never really been in an argument with him! Bring it fs62! Oldfan, you want some?

El, c'mon man-I like you too much to see you do that to yourself. Save your dignity bro'.!

 

[Henry]

Now fansince, I have never really been in an argument with him! Bring it fs62! Oldfan, you want some?

Secure that **** Hudsen!