Official Game Thread - Preseason Week 2 - Commander @ Lions

It’s a fair complaint. Without an o line you can’t do anything. I do think Allegretti helps a lot because throughout his career he’s been a low end starter/high end backup. Honestly, that’s probably what Paul is, too. You can get away with below average and below average you can’t survive bad mixed with below average.

Allegretti though is not enough. He’s gotten dinged twice this preseason so you can’t assume he’ll make it through seventeen. We need legit depth. Frankly, we need depth that might be capable of winning the job. So, I hope we are very aggressive on the waiver wires and cuts.
 
We need Good-Jones to be replaced by a competent NFL vet. He and Hartman do not belong on an NFL roster.

It looked like they used Gublin more at G than C so they don't want him at C at this point.
 
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DWinzit said:
We need Good-Jones to be replaced by a competent NFL vet. He and Hartman do not belong on an NFL roster.

It looked like they used Gublin more at G than C so they don't want him at C at this point.
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The other way to look at it is if Gulbin is the back up center it means he is active on game days which also would mean that if a guard goes down during the game he needs to be an option to step in at guard. Guessing they needed to give him reps at guard for just the reason?
 
DWinzit said:
We need Good-Jones to be replaced by a competent NFL vet. He and Hartman do not belong on an NFL roster.

It looked like they used Gublin more at G than C so they don't want him at C at this point.
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I'm not sure that's the case (it might be.) I think they need a backup interior lineman to have position flex so if they think they want the Goblin on the 53-man roster than they need to know he can cover guard, too. In any case, Detroit may have been eye opening. I remember Paulson (I think it was him) saying that you can cover for a weak center by sliding protections. That may be true, but only to a degree. Clearly, Good-Jones is a weakness every defense can exploit. And worse, as we all know, the shortest distance to the quarterback is a straight line through the center.

However, more to the point, I think we are all in agreement, this line needs reinforcements that don't look to be on the roster right now.
 
Chris 44 said:
The other way to look at it is if Gulbin is the back up center it means he is active on game days which also would mean that if a guard goes down during the game he needs to be an option to step in at guard. Guessing they needed to give him reps at guard for just the reason?
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Should have read further. Chris made the point already :)
 
burgold said:
Should have read further. Chris made the point already :)
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I think they were expecting the backup G's could handle things. Wylie and Paul are weaknesses if they can't be covered by decent players on both sides of them. Can a healthy Allegretti give them that for one of them to be able to be effective. Right now that is where DQ is hanging is hat. I mean, did anyone really think Paul was going to be a good LG? He was the weak link last year.
 
DWinzit said:
I think they were expecting the backup G's could handle things. Wylie and Paul are weaknesses if they can't be covered by decent players on both sides of them. Can a healthy Allegretti give them that for one of them to be able to be effective. Right now that is where DQ is hanging is hat. I mean, did anyone really think Paul was going to be a good LG? He was the weak link last year.
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Can't argue. Paul thought he was going to rate a payday and happily marched into free agency, then after hearing what the league thought of him came back here with his tail between his legs, begging for a cheap one-year deal. OTOH, Paul was good at pass pro last year. So, maybe we have that going for us unless him being "good" was almost entirely about him playing next to Tunsil.
 
I was very pleased with how the defense came out guns blazing with turnovers, sacks, and a defensive TD.

And that wasn't even all the starters.

The OL, mainly the interior of it, is a work in progress. So unfortunately, we didn't get to see much of Daniels. I suspect he won't play at all against the Ravens.

They need to end the Good-Jones tenure. That just isn't working out.

I'll be interested to see this week the adjustments they make.
 
I had been concerned about the OL since before camp, I never understood the optimism and this was before Tunsil got hurt. We all knew the C and LG positions were below average, and that was before Allegretti went down. The RT improved but he is hardly proven. 3 question marks in the starting 5 always spelled trouble to me and I have no idea what they were thinking.
 
burgold said:
Can't argue. Paul thought he was going to rate a payday and happily marched into free agency, then after hearing what the league thought of him came back here with his tail between his legs, begging for a cheap one-year deal. OTOH, Paul was good at pass pro last year. So, maybe we have that going for us unless him being "good" was almost entirely about him playing next to Tunsil.
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They were making a show of the Paul/Coleman battle for the LG spot. It was Coleman's as long as he could stay healthy because he has a lot more upside and is a much better athlete.

Paul was brought back to be a very high-level and competent backup. He was paid backup money. I think they were pretty thrilled to have a guy who started all year for them last year and was not a complete mess as a primary backup.

The problem is Tunsil's injury elevated him from primary backup to starter again. Which isn't ideal, but it could also be a whole lot worse.

I think Peters did a really good job on the OL apart from Center. We had 2 all-pro/pro bowl level players in Tunsil and Cosmi. Conerly looked good at the end of last year and is a first round pick. We had our 2024 3rd round pick plugging in at LG. Behind the starters we had real depth. Wylie is one of the best backup swing tackles you can have. He's competent at 4 spots. Trent Scott is a good 3rd string backup tackle and can also play a little guard, and Paul was the primary backup for at least LG, and maybe even RG. And he is either a borderline starter or really good backup. And as an added bonus, Coleman, the projected starting guard, can also play tackle. So they had really good depth.

The problem is now Paul is a starter because Tunsil got injured. They're probably fine at LT with Coleman. Paul now has to start the entire season, though, which is far from ideal.

But that's what happens when you lose a starter early in the season. Your depth has to play.

And there's literally no team that has backup players who are as good as the starters. You're going to have a drop off.

I actually think Peters did a hell of a good job with the OL outside of C because even the depth is good.

Center, that's a different story.
 
I don't know why it is, but this team just can't seem to put together a decent Oline, and really haven't for 30 years. Honestly, how hard is it to look around and find people in FA or projects in the draft that can block and pass pro? Or that can play two positions? We're one more injury away on the Oline from having another shitty year, and I put that right on Peters.
 
Darrell Green Fan said:
I had been concerned about the OL since before camp, I never understood the optimism and this was before Tunsil got hurt. We all knew the C and LG positions were below average, and that was before Allegretti went down. The RT improved but he is hardly proven. 3 question marks in the starting 5 always spelled trouble to me and I have no idea what they were thinking.
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I don't think the LG position was going to be below average. Coleman was going to win that job, he was looking good in camp. The reason he fell out of favor last year was he got injured, and couldn't stay on the field. But he has incredible physical ability. He was going to be fine at LG.

Conerly was pretty good for a rookie. What I don't understand is folks who think a guy picked with the 26th pick is going to look like Joe Jacoby right out of the gate. This is what drafting and developing looks like. You pick a guy with a lot of upside, you put them out there, they have growing pains, and in 2 or 3 years, you have a stud.

Sure, sometimes you get a Daniels who's a stud from the get go. But that's absolutely the exception and not the rule.

The Center spot was the one where there was concern, and for me, it was more the depth than Allegretti. Allegretti is a professional OL, and played well enough in 2024 that we make it to the NFC Championship game. What I just couldn't figure out is how they couldn't get another vet with starting experience to come in and compete. They needed to do that. What Keim reported is they had a plan B after missing on Lindy, but it didn't work out. Well, then go to plan C, D, E. They just didn't do anything, and that was a mistake that they are now paying for.
 
skinsinparadise said:
Josh Taylor, is just a fan, but as I mentioned for a dude who went to 11 practices its hard not to catch things. The 2 O lineman he highlighted that looked good in camp, are the same ones ironically Quinn hits on here.

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I know what we should have done at center… not released the best one on the roster.
 
Ghost of Sarge said:
I don't know why it is, but this team just can't seem to put together a decent Oline, and really haven't for 30 years. Honestly, how hard is it to look around and find people in FA or projects in the draft that can block and pass pro? Or that can play two positions? We're one more injury away on the Oline from having another shitty year, and I put that right on Peters.
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Oh, that's not true. They had some rally good OL's in the 2000's and early 2010's. When they had Samuels and Jansen as the bookend tackles, they had some pretty damn good OLs. For a while they had both Scherff and Williams.

Actually, if you think about it, since the 1980's, they probably have had the best run at top-end LT's in the NFL, with the hogs, Samuels, Trent Williams, and now Tunsil. There have been a few gaps between them at times, but they've had top end LTs for a good bit of the last 40 years.

There were some years when the injuries really piled up, and the OLs under Ron were abysmal, after they traded Trent and then brought in all the has-beens who couldn't play. But overall, they've had quite a few talented players on the OL.
 
KDawg said:
I know what we should have done at center… not released the best one on the roster.
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Eh. whatever. They didn't want him. And now he has an ACL. So crying over Biadasz rings a bit hollow at this point.

What we should have done is had a better plan to replace him if we were going to release him. Allegretti as the starter I have no real problem with. Not bringing in another vet or two to push him and make sure there was proven depth, that was a mistake.
 
Voice_of_Reason said:
Eh. whatever. They didn't want him. And now he has an ACL. So crying over Biadasz rings a bit hollow at this point.

What we should have done is had a better plan to replace him if we were going to release him. Allegretti as the starter I have no real problem with. Not bringing in another vet or two to push him and make sure there was proven depth, that was a mistake.
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Facts don’t back your opinion.

“Crying” 😆
 
KDawg said:
Facts don’t back your opinion.

“Crying” 😆
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Fact: Biadasz is out for the season with an ACL. Which is probably bad luck but continues his run of bad injury luck.

Fact: They didn't want him and have said they didn't think his communication or line calls were good.

Fact: His overall PFF grades (for whatever they are worth) was essentially a 70. 70 is average, as Galdi says every time he says anything about PFF grades. 70 overall, 71 run blocking, 67 pass blocking. You're screaming and yelling about an average, replacement level player. He wasn't bad. He wasn't good. He was the definition of replaceable.

The way you refer to him, you'd think he was something like a top tier player at his position, which he has never been. He was good enough. But he wasn't great. He played well enough in 2024 to help us get to the NFC Championship Game. But it wasn't like he was challenging Lindy as the top center in the NFL or anything.

I was shocked when he was released. But the more I looked at it, the more it wasn't that shocking.

The MUCH bigger issue is what they did after they released him.
 
It turned out to be a mistake to release Biadasz before we secured his replacement. Now, you can argue they thought they thought Allegretti was the replacement, but then you need Allegretti's replacement and that's where we got in trouble.

I really thought they needed to get a second center who was good enough to challenge Allegretti because it was an act of faith to believe Allegretti could do the job. We don't know and because of injuries we still don't know if he can do it. So, I'd rather they have kept Biadasz and let the two compete for the starting gig. If Biadasz couldn't handle the demotion cut him after he lost, but we needed someone fit to step onto an NFL field who could hold their own. Right now, unless the Goblin can do it we don't have anyone at center fit to play.
 
Voice_of_Reason said:
Fact: Biadasz is out for the season with an ACL. Which is probably bad luck but continues his run of bad injury luck.

Fact: They didn't want him and have said they didn't think his communication or line calls were good.

Fact: His overall PFF grades (for whatever they are worth) was essentially a 70. 70 is average, as Galdi says every time he says anything about PFF grades. 70 overall, 71 run blocking, 67 pass blocking. You're screaming and yelling about an average, replacement level player. He wasn't bad. He wasn't good. He was the definition of replaceable.

The way you refer to him, you'd think he was something like a top tier player at his position, which he has never been. He was good enough. But he wasn't great. He played well enough in 2024 to help us get to the NFC Championship Game. But it wasn't like he was challenging Lindy as the top center in the NFL or anything.

I was shocked when he was released. But the more I looked at it, the more it wasn't that shocking.

The MUCH bigger issue is what they did after they released him.
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Fact: we don’t know if he’d be injured in Washington.

Fact: regardless of Allegretti, we released our depth.

“The way you talk about him”… what? That I talk about him as a competent center? Cmon, man. This is wild.

I don’t understand how you are still defending this non sense.
 
KDawg said:
Fact: we don’t know if he’d be injured in Washington.

Fact: regardless of Allegretti, we released our depth.

“The way you talk about him”… what? That I talk about him as a competent center? Cmon, man. This is wild.

I don’t understand how you are still defending this non sense.
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I'm defending releasing an average player. I'm not defending not being able to figure out how to replace the average player.

He wasn't depth for them. They didn't want him on the team. I've gone through why:

1. They didn't want him on the team when they chased Lindy.
2. They didn't want him competing for the center spot

It's bad for team chemistry to keep a guy and then actively try and replace him while he's on the roster. What happens if they try 3 things to replace him, fail, then you go back to him and say, "sorry, we tried to replace you, then we probably would have released you, but now you are the starter?" I mean, come on. That's just not going to work.

Biadasz was either the starter or not on the team. And they were paying him way too much to have him as a backup.

So they released him. Fine. No problem.

When plan A and plan B failed, they didn't have a plan C. And that's really where the problem is.

However, while you don't understand how I can keep defending this, I can't understand how you can't see they couldn't keep Biadasz and try to move on at the same time. It wouldn't work.
 
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