SkinsLife
The UDFA
Whitt will now also change his underwear from red to blue.. D problem solved! palloffs.. here we come!
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2025 Washington Commanders- All Things Defense
- Thread starter Chris
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mcdonaldrw
The Rookie
Sad part is now he won't have Lattimore to help him fix this sinking ship, so the move downstairs will be for nothing. If only he had moved downstairs to the field last week
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That’s just a lazy excuse, Tony. Those days are long gone but you can’t offer anything beyond doubling down on your questionable opinion without evidence? Even when presented with visual proof? Please. If Kinlaw is a ‘bust’ then he has a lot of company. The entire defense is a bust. Kinlaw was not expected to be a Miles Garrett or Chris Jones comp. He wasn’t brought in to be a savior and he’s not being compensated as such. He is, at least, every bit as good as those around him, which is not very.
I have no interest in continuing this discussion with someone unwilling or unable to genuinely defend their opinion with facts rather than feelings.
You said "he's not taking on double teams, that's absurd." It's different from what a few film guys I listen to have said about Kinlaw as to double teams, and I was taking their point with face value. You said otherewise. So I was curious.
Look them (Bullock, Suter, Paulsen) saying he's playing really well and disruptive is subjective albiet all three said the same thing. But regardless if you don't think he's playing well -- that's a subjective take and you of course have a right to feel that. that's what makes these boards fun, diverse opinions with diverse takes. So good stuff.
But as for double teams. that's not subjective. That is a fact or not. Maybe they backed off Kinlaw later in the game, I'll get through the whole game and see but at least early in the game during the first drive and a half, that's all I've watched so far., he was doubled teamed on almost every play, For me to dig into a game especially D line, I got to freeze the play and watch it slowly. I took screen shots. No cherry picking. He was doubled teamed on most plays -- didn't matter if he was at nose, 3 or playing edge. they focused on him. I posted clip afer clip her showing it.
That also mirrors what a reporter said, I think it was Keim but i don't recall 100% if it was him or Standig or someone else who said someone higher up from another team told him when teams game plan against Washington's defense it centers on Kinlaw and Payne. Those are the dudes they worry about. to that point at a minimum the fact that double teams often follow Kinlaw no matter where he is on the line -- that's a show of respect. That's not subjective. That's a fact. You don't double team a dude that you think sucks. Maybe at nose sometimes you would because of your blocking scheme but the double teams followed him when he shifted positions. Now whether he deserves that much respect lol is a a different subject -- maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.
As to his play, in this game specifically, no one on the D line stood out to me, so far but am early in on it -- he broke the double teams a couple of times but didn't get to the QB, another time he occupied the double long enough to give Luvu a shot at the QB up the A gap. But nothing really worked. As I mentioned, I didn't love how the tackles early on, Kinlaw included looked at edge on the plays i watched. He's too slow at edge. Much more natural at DT to my eyes.
Our defense isnt blitzing. That means there are 4 DL going against 5 OL. It’s a shear numbers game… and inside blocking schemes will double up or at least help out before peeling off. And I don’t count giving a quick punch or shove to help another lineman within the 1st step of the LOS to be doubling up.
Yes, Kinlaw was rotated to end on a few occasions that I saw in the first half. But he was primarily a DT most snaps. At best I saw him get doubled approx 2 times.
I dont care what you saw. I dont care what reporters say… because they often have conflicting opinions. You obviously have your favorites. And they’re often wrong too.
Just like I don’t put a lot into PFF scores. I cant even begin to tell you how many years/seasons fans have watched awful football… and then an analytical website will come out with high scores and upend the POV and fans convince themselves that the player actually played well in retrospect. And then the next season starts… and we have the same problems. And then the player gets cut. Cause the fans were friggin right.
Ive been following football long enough not to dismiss what I’m seeing.
And you cant trust coach speak. They rarely throw their guys under the table. And just wrong. Quan Martin was hyped to be a pro bowler this year. Jordan Magee was hyped up to be a monster in practice. And almost every player has regressed this year in the 2nd year of these systems… and Quinn’s best answer is it’s not a cultural problem, its a ‘performance’ issue. Brilliant coach!
I hated so many of his decisions last year (going on it for 4th downs, taking points off the board, not kicking fields, etc). They may have worked… but they were still bad decisions.
So no, I don’t care much what coaches say either. They’re wrong about a lot. Thats why they all eventually get fired.
Kinlaw was pumped up to be a mam child game wrecker who hadnt reached his potential yet but would here. So he was given substantial money and was the team’s first FA signing. For a FO that had prioritized the DL as a weakness and pass rush.
There’s a reason why every fan was flabbergasted at that signing at the time. It didnt make sense. It was strictly based on potential.
Would anyone still make that same signing today if they could go back. Of course not. End of story.
Greg Olson has a GREAT tweet about how the Seahawks run a lot of heavy personnel, but they aren’t focused on running out of it. They’re focused on passing out of it, and it’s tricking dumb defenses, basically. As Olson put it, teams need to call defensive plays based on down and distance, not the Seahawks’ personnel. We fell into the trap, prioritizing stopping the run when the Seahawks always wanted to pass out of those sets.
The only forward-thinking, potentially innovative decision making Quinn has even remotely shown here is his tendency toward analytically-backed 4th down go’s, including in the red zone when the risk is losing out on a FG to try and score a TD. Interesting to see someone who hates that. It’s almost literally the only thing about Quinn that gives me any hope I’m wrong about him.
Does the analytics take into account your specific roster versus a specific opponent? Injuries? Does it take into account the context of the game? Momentum? Accuracy of kicker? Your opponents strength matching matching common down and distance calls?
I don’t mind Quinn being aggressive against the Chiefs on 4th downs. On the road, against a superior opponent (especially at home), a walking wounded roster… with the season on the line. You know you’re going to be in a shootout and FGs won’t cut it. Unfortunately, the team’s only shot was to play fearless and hope for a puncher’s chance. Quinn made the right calls that game. But Kliff’s calls on 4th were brutal!!
"Dumb defenses", amazing we could have fallen for that, lol. If they can't figure that out then how the hell could they have the know how to make adjustments in any game situation?
Good news is, Whitt will be able to catch that in the future by being in the sideline opposed to in the booth
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And the hits just keep on coming…
So one of the few Commanders that is a fairly reliable tackler does so in an illegal manor....perfect!
Who knows, the math is based off of a massive sample size so it may, but I really couldn’t say. I don’t care either way, personally. I’m a process > outcome person, I want decisions consistently being made whether you’re playing the best team in the league or the worst. Find the edge. If you can’t find it, create a new one.
Now that’s not to say that I disagree with the idea that decisions should be made in context and with situational modifiers. There are times to take the points, times to not go for it. I usually feel that I can recognize those moments when I feel them. But last year was the first time I saw a coach in our colors consistently do what I thought was the intelligent, ballsy thing a majority of the time.
Guess it was a mirage, though.
SkinsInSATX
The UDFA
I've seen so many happening without being called, I just assumed they're letting it go......Skattebo was tackled like that I believe as well,, just a bunch of horse shit with these refs and league already.
Voice_of_Reason
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method man
The Starter
Other teams see him as a dirty player. Not surprising that he is the guy they chose to make an example of. Upside here is we'll get to see a full game of Magee starting with maybe some Medrano sprinkled in.
They are top 10 in blitz rates. Also, found a stat that actually tracks what players are doubled. Kinlaw around 70% see below. The stats are chips (very few) doubled teamed (a lot). Triple teamed some. He is doubled team by a good margin by any other player on this team.
As for PFF, they HATED Kinlaw the player, that was a big part of the narrative of the criticism of the signing. It was my main concern at the time, too. I watch their game previews from time to time and in one of them they were touting how surprised they were that Kinlaw was playing this well.
As for the others like Suter, the Maryland play caller, ex-college player who is doing film review among others having some pro Kinlaw bias just because. it's a weird thing if so, he rips everyone almost on that defense, Kinlaw is one of the few he likes. I don't think its because he has some cool personal relationship with him.
Kinlaw has been good by most accounts. He's being paid like he's a good player not a great one. Good value so far. Not great. If the point is he has elite talent, as even his critics usually acknowledge yet he doesn't live up to it, that's fair.
If you don't like the player -- heck that's fair. I don't have the same likes and dislikes.
But your double team point is 100% wrong. He is being doubled teamed. And if you don't take my clippings as evidence for whatever reason. I don't see how you can ignore stat compilers, same ones that the NFL subscribe to.
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I had not heard of him being called a dirty player or that he has been tackling this way. I agree third time is a charm, he deserves the penalty as he will insure players. I find it hard seeing hi beat an appeal ruled by players. He should not appeal, eat the suspension and stop tackling this way or the next time it is a bigger suspension.
I like your look at the silver lining. While I am not convinced they can be legit starters, our young LBs will be forced into action, they need the exposure.
method man
The Starter
While there are a number of roster positions to upgrade in the front 7, the sobering reality is they may have just one average starter in 4 of their starting 5 DB slots in place for next year. The safety position is trash, Sainristil may be one of the worst nickel CBs in the NFL & the other outside CB position will require someone new.
What I am feeling about our defense this morning:
Anselmheifer
The Starter
I feel like we should have a separate thread about who we want to be our next DC.
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