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Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

I think he's a guy who is a still a bit too concerned about making mistakes. He admits he commits them to memory so he won't repeat them. Not such a good think IMO. He has to take the shots. That shot to Garcon was on the money if he hadn't stumbled. That pass to Desean was a thing of beauty. He can make the throws. He's gonna have to just cut loose and not worry about the bitching when some get picked. Some more athletic receivers would help. His target area to everyone is so small. He can put it out in front of Desean and he can go get it, but in tight man coverage we don't have guys that can extend up or out.
 
No he's not. His interceptions of concern are on boneheaded decisions, not taking shots, and he seems to have those under control. Another problem is the week line causes him to get the ball out fast and not wait to see if the play develops deep. Fixing this line will cure a lot of ills on offense.
 
fansince62 said:
- what's the conversion ratio (to TDs) off defensive turn-overs? doesn't strike me as all that good. too many field goals or no scores. at some point...you want a QB with a killer instinct to make the game changing/momentum killing scores.
Click to expand...

Well, Fan, I'm afraid you hit the jackpot on this one. It turns out a stat is kept totaling points scored off your team's turnovers and points you score off the other team's turnovers. The giveaway points-the ones your opponents have gained from your team's turnovers are then subtracted from the takeaway points-the points you gain off opposing teams turnovers for a "Total Net Turnover Points". As you hypothesized, the Redskins are doing poorly in this area.

Note: I know your primary emphasis was on TDs but that specific a breakdown wasn't available-besides the opposing teams have to resort to FGs as well, so total points scored off turnovers is still a usable indicator for comparison purposes.


Screenshot - 12_10_2015 , 11_32_10 PM.jpgScreenshot - 12_10_2015 , 11_32_58 PM.jpgScreenshot - 12_10_2015 , 11_33_37 PM.jpg


Worst in the league by giving up 73 more points from our turnovers than we gained from the opposing team's turnovers.

Ouch.


Source: Team Net Turnover Points Statistics: 2015 NFL Season
 
servumtuum said:
Well, Fan, I'm afraid you hit the jackpot on this one. It turns out a stat is kept totaling points scored off your team's turnovers and points you score off the other team's turnovers. The giveaway points-the ones your opponents have gained from your team's turnovers are then subtracted from the takeaway points-the points you gain off opposing teams turnovers for a "Total Net Turnover Points". As you hypothesized, the Redskins are doing poorly in this area.

Note: I know your primary emphasis was on TDs but that specific a breakdown wasn't available-besides the opposing teams have to resort to FGs as well, so total points scored off turnovers is still a usable indicator for comparison purposes.

Worst in the league by giving up 73 more points from our turnovers than we gained from the opposing team's turnovers.

Ouch.


Source: Team Net Turnover Points Statistics: 2015 NFL Season
Click to expand...

Wow, we're worst by a big margin. That's a pretty damming stat.
 
servumtuum said:
Well, Fan, I'm afraid you hit the jackpot on this one. It turns out a stat is kept totaling points scored off your team's turnovers and points you score off the other team's turnovers. The giveaway points-the ones your opponents have gained from your team's turnovers are then subtracted from the takeaway points-the points you gain off opposing teams turnovers for a "Total Net Turnover Points". As you hypothesized, the Redskins are doing poorly in this area.

Note: I know your primary emphasis was on TDs but that specific a breakdown wasn't available-besides the opposing teams have to resort to FGs as well, so total points scored off turnovers is still a usable indicator for comparison purposes.


Worst in the league by giving up 73 more points from our turnovers than we gained from the opposing team's turnovers.

Ouch.


Source: Team Net Turnover Points Statistics: 2015 NFL Season
Click to expand...

This is the 2nd most depressing thing I've seen this week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
On a positive note, is it progress ?
We used to be the worst at turnover ratio.
We turned it over, far more than we took it away.
Now, at least we're taking it away more.
We may not be converting it to points, but maybe that's the next step.
There now, isn't your Friday sunnier now ?
 
Wow. Those turnover stats are pretty shocking. I knew we were bad, but....

Here's where I am with Kirk.

I still view him as a pretty young and inexperienced QB about to get his first full uninterrupted season under his belt without looking over his shoulder. He's not good enough at this point to consistently cary a rebuilding team, although sometimes we see flashes.

I'm pleased that he seem to have licked the interception issue. I mean he'll still have interceptions, but if he can just carry on not throwing multiple in games then we're in pretty good shape.

I think this is due to multile factors. I think our offense is a little neutered and predictable. Which is why we're struggling to get moving lately. Defenses have us pegged now. I'm hoping next year after another off season they can open the throttle a bit more.
I think he's a little cooler and calmer now that he's not looking in his rear view mirrors to see RGIII. I think there came a point 5 or 6 games in where the confidence Gruden was showing and the fact he was not on his way to the bench really sank in and he settled down. He's also learning as he goes, he seems like a smart QB to me.

He's certainly not being helped out by dropped passes in some games, stupid penalties and a running game that has stagnated. The latter I think is a consequence of inexperience and injury on the O-Line that now defenses are keying on. Bring the pressure.

Next year I think being healthy and more experience on the O-Line may just help our run game settle down again, and in turn help Kirk. I'm happy with his progress this year and am keen to see next years version of Kirk. If the O-Line is healthy and more experienced and especially if they do draft or get in a stud centre etc, then there will be no excuses.

Also, I agree. We're taking a QB in the draft to groom for the future.
 
Think we all pretty much realize that there is enough offensive 'blame' to go around.

Kirk, right now, is not the type of 'playmaking' QB that will make it up as he goes. He does seem to have settled down his primary demons enough to perhaps start making that 'next step'. Will he get there I don't know.

Of course there will be an new QB on the roster next season, that's normal expectation because our current triumvirate of QB's will be broken up, we just don't know yet where the pieces will fall.

A lot of these misses after turnovers, particularly on Mon Nite involved something to prevent success, a missed pass, a bad block, a missed assignment, a bad route, a penalty, a bad/predictable call..... whatever.

This is what drives me nuts, blame it on coaching, youth, inexperience, injury, boneheads, whatever doesn't matter, the result is the same, shit happens at an inopportune time.

My 'rush' of expectation for the season is pretty much settled back down to the 'wait and see' level for this team. If playoffs are in the mix fine, if not, that's fine too. I just want to see something good get back into play, primarily more consistency of something.... anything.

I will admit tho, the fact that this team did raise some expectation is quite nice, something must be going in the right direction, just can't quite put a definitive 'finger' on what because every time I think 'that's it!' the damn thing vaporizes.

Maybe this is how a rebuild year is supposed to go.

Dunno.
 
There is a lot of emphasis on what Kirk IS NOT.
Very little emphasis on what HE IS.
He's absolutely an improvement on the QB play over the last couple decades.
But it's like no-one will be happy until we have an Aaron Rodgers.
 
tr1 said:
Well, we disagree. He plays well against bad defenses and struggles against good defenses.

Don't be surprised if we draft a qb in our top three picks.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that the phenomenon of QBs performing better against lesser competition and struggling more against more talented opponents is not unique to Kirk Cousins :)

Cousins is a decent starter who may well prove to be excellent with better talent, play calling, and more experience.

I would give him a reasonable 4 year deal while we build around him. The hidden plus in our current offensive inconsistency and Cousins occasional Jeckyll and Hyde act is that it will drive down the cost of his next contract. So some struggling may actually benefit the team from that vantage point.


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If we can build up our defense to become a formidable strength, then the question is, can Kirk become at least game manager like a Joe Flacco or a Brad Johnson, or Trent Dilfer, and ride the coat-tails of a great defense, to a Super Bowl ring ?
I say yes, he could be that guy. He's already proven he can overcome key things like a Turnover Bug.

You like that ?
 
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I want to clarify something about posting that Net Turnover Stat chart. I was responding to Fansince's inquiry that just happened to be in the Kirk Cousins Development thread. I am in no way trying to isolate a cause because it seems to me that that type of scoring/prevent from scoring problem is a reflection of overall team performance and not aimed at Cousins in particular-he has a part here but he's not the only or even the main problem Frankly the fact that while we have improved noticeably in overall net turnovers as Fear pointed out but are so bad at either taking advantage of opponents mistakes and getting burnt by our own indicates to me a system-level dysfunction that includes the entire team and coaching staff as well.
 
Fear The Spear said:
There is a lot of emphasis on what Kirk IS NOT.
Very little emphasis on what HE IS.
He's absolutely an improvement on the QB play over the last couple decades.
Click to expand...

I'm not seeing that. He's an improvement over himself, so there's that.

An improvement over Frerotte, Campbell, Brunell? ... nah. He's about what those guys were right now.

Maybe a little better if it helps you sleep better at night. Then again, QB play across-the-board is better now because it's a pitch-and-catch-two-hand-touch league, so he SHOULD play a little better. Relative to his peers? Cousins isn't any better than those guys were.

But it's like no-one will be happy until we have an Aaron Rodgers.
Click to expand...

That is correct. Absolutely, positively correct. It's called the NFL. You want to win consistently, you need a top QB. Cousins is a fair QB. We can make do with that, but we shouldn't we HAPPY with that.
 
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Henry said:
That is correct. Absolutely, positively correct. It's called the NFL. You want to win consistently, you need a top QB. Cousins is a fair QB. We can make do with that, but we shouldn't we HAPPY with that.
Click to expand...

But we don't NEED a TOP QB to be a winner. It's already been proven that that's not necessary. And it's already been proven that QB's like Rodgers are the exception to the rule, and are truly a diamond in the rough. It's not as easy to find a QB on that tier level, as some people make it sound. Nowhere near that easy. Which is why we should focus on building around Cousins. We already gave up a gazillion draft picks in hopes that RG3 was that kind of QB. How about approaching it from a different angle, like defense, and building the lines. Do that, and we don't need an Aaron Rodgers. A team can't have it ALL. So, you have to focus on what's most necessary to building a winner, and most feasibly obtainable.
 
Fear The Spear said:
But we don't NEED a TOP QB to be a winner. It's already been proven that that's not necessary. And it's already been proven that QB's like Rodgers are the exception to the rule, and are truly a diamond in the rough. It's not as easy to find a QB on that tier level, as some people make it sound. Nowhere near that easy. Which is why we should focus on building around Cousins. We already gave up a gazillion draft picks in hopes that RG3 was that kind of QB. How about approaching it from a different angle, like defense, and building the lines. Do that, and we don't need an Aaron Rodgers. A team can't have it ALL. So, you have to focus on what's most necessary to building a winner, and most feasibly obtainable.
Click to expand...

You have to do that anyway. You have to build the lines and put together a fierce defense. You do that regardless of who your QB is, and their development is irrelevant to who the QB is. Or at least they should be.

That doesn't mean that the QB you have is great, or good, or should be accepted as The Future of The Franchise simply because he doesn't suck. Cousins is ok. Nobody is advocating trading away three first rounders for a QB ever again, but if we can replace Cousins with a better player we should. Aaron Rodgers he ain't.
 
I want to clarify something about posting that Net Turnover Stat chart. I was responding to Fansince's inquiry that just happened to be in the Kirk Cousins Development thread. I am in no way trying to isolate a cause because it seems to me that that type of scoring/prevent from scoring problem is a reflection of overall team performance
Click to expand...


Well, I understood that Serv, my comments were directly aimed at 'shit happens' with enough blame to go all around, not just Kirk.
Kirk has not developed (or shown) enough yet to overcome the 'shit', can he is still the unkown IMO and I have no problem sitting back to see if he can.
There is only so much 'shit' that any QB can overcome,
 
Boone said:
I'm pretty sure that the phenomenon of QBs performing better against lesser competition and struggling more against more talented opponents is not unique to Kirk Cousins :)

Cousins is a decent starter who may well prove to be excellent with better talent, play calling, and more experience.

I would give him a reasonable 4 year deal while we build around him. The hidden plus in our current offensive inconsistency and Cousins occasional Jeckyll and Hyde act is that it will drive down the cost of his next contract. So some struggling may actually benefit the team from that vantage point.


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Click to expand...

Kirk is definitely coming back. Here's where I'm at with him. From watching the Campbell years, I said after yr 1 he had peaked. Was confirmed by the turnstile offensive coordinators who couldn't get any more from him, yet the fans kept saying his progress was stunted by the change in OC's. I didn't buy that, I said he had no upside and I was right.

Now Kirk has definitely shown improvement. That's what will bring him back. But what I'm concerned about is that I wonder how much more "upside" does he actually have? Has he peaked and we don't know it? If we go 0-4 down the stretch, how can anyone say he is money in the bank for next year? How do we make that big commitment? If we squeak out a playoff spot he will get the contract. That will do it. But 0-4 and I have my doubts as to our commitment in light of ending up 5-11.
 
Any team that has the opportunity to upgrade their QB should and would do that. Unless you have an Andrew Luck like prospect within grasp, it's a crapshoot. If you think someone is there that will grow and develop into more than Kirk will, you grab him and grow him while Kirk drives the ship. That seems like pretty good common sense. However, when looking at Kirks performance, you cannot discount the problems around him as a contributing factor to his play. Put him behind a line that can give him time and he'll be better than serviceable or a game manager. The only way you replace him with some one immediately who is better is to get a free agent, and that just never pans out well. Are there any highly touted QB's in the draft? It's a rare team that has an Aaron Rodgers type player. Should we be happy with anything less? I was pretty damn happy with Joey T., Rypien and Williams. :) If we land a Rodgers type player, Hallelujah and so long Kirk. :) Otherwise I've no desire to move on until his growth stops.
 
tr1 said:
Um...this sounded like what many of us were saying earlier this year about another qb on the roster. Hmmmmm...
Click to expand...

Except Kirk is actually able to get the ball out quickly, minimizing the damage the Oline causes. None of us argued the Oline didn't hamper Griffin, only that he lacked the basic skills to get the ball out quickly and minimize the damage. He never showed an ounce of improvement in that regard, and that's what turned most of us off. I've no doubt Griffin would have developed better behind a good Oline, but the bad Oline was not the only reason he failed and we ran out of time with him due to his contract.
 
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