Yesterday's action justified the price

[Elephant]

El, the 'franchise QB' part is on Griffin. Winning divisions and superbowls in on the coach, and the GM, and owner. This is still a team sport. If Griffin becomes a top 5 QB (or even a top 10 QB) for the next decade, he's giving us our shot at greatness. At that point it's up to the team to take it.

Besides, how many teams can you think of that have a Franchise QB that DON'T win division titles and at least contend for the Superbowl.

I know you really hate the trade but at this point it sure looks like you are looking for an excuse to be ticked off.

If we win the superbowl in 2016 feel free to be mad. I'll be thrilled we got the guy.

Not really Henry, I am on board now, especially after the event at the stadium today. But unless we win a Super Bowl or 2 while he is our QB for the next however many years, the trade will not have been worth it.

These guys keep talking about a QB driven league and you tell me it isn't?

I'll give you a handful of franchise QB's that have not won anything:
Josh Freeman - still early I know
Jay Cutler
Michael Vick - Hasn't won anything in Philly to speak of
Joe Flacco - he's competed and should win a SB
Matt Schaub
Matthew Stafford - still early I know



The difference between all those QB's and RG3...they didn't cost 3 1st round picks.

I expect us to win a Super Bowl with him provided the price tag, and I don't think that is a far fetched expectation. If we don't, the trade just wasn't worth it.

And Henry, I do want to clarify, I am no longer bitter about the trade. RG3 is our guy and I am looking forward to watching him hoist a Lombardi or 2.

 

[Boone]

I'll give you a handful of franchise QB's that have not won anything:
Josh Freeman - still early I know
Jay Cutler
Michael Vick - Hasn't won anything in Philly to speak of
Joe Flacco - he's competed and should win a SB
Matt Schaub
Matthew Stafford - still early I know

Not one of those guys is a real 'franchise QB' - and that may explain why none of them have won anything. A franchise QB makes everyone around him better, and when the pressure is at it's greatest and the stakes the highest, puts the teams success on his back and carries it.

Not one of those guys is even close.

There aren't many franchise QBs around. Manning. Brady. Roethlisberger. Maybe 1 or 2 others

 

[Elephant]

Not one of those guys is a real 'franchise QB' - and that may explain why none of them have won anything. A franchise QB makes everyone around him better, and when the pressure is at it's greatest and the stakes the highest, puts the teams success on his back and carries it.

Not one of those guys is even close.

There aren't many franchise QBs around. Manning. Brady. Roethlisberger. Maybe 1 or 2 others

They are all franchise QB's Boone. They represent their franchise and will for years to come. Maybe not Vick, his run is about over. Freeman is still on the fence, but Flacco has been with and will remain with the Ravens for years to come and should have been in the Super Bowl last year. Schaub has been with the Texans for how long? Jay Cutler is going to be in Chicago for years to come. They are franchise QB's.

Now, if you define a franchise QB as one that wins Super Bowls, then that supports my assertion even more that RG3 needs to win Super Bowls or the trade was not worth it.

Again, I am glad he's here now. I look forward to seeing him hoist a Lombardi or 2.

 

[Henry]

Not really Henry, I am on board now, especially after the event at the stadium today. But unless we win a Super Bowl or 2 while he is our QB for the next however many years, the trade will not have been worth it.

These guys keep talking about a QB driven league and you tell me it isn't?

Of course it is. But that doesn't mean the rest of the team doesn't matter at ALL. You don't just draft one player, even a QB, and say 'We're done! Let go win superbowls!' I don't think anyone has ever suggested that. A Franchise QB gives you the shot. You really can't win these days without one. But that doesn't mean you can ignore the rest of the team.

I'll give you a handful of franchise QB's that have not won anything:
Josh Freeman - still early I know
Jay Cutler
Michael Vick - Hasn't won anything in Philly to speak of
Joe Flacco - he's competed and should win a SB
Matt Schaub
Matthew Stafford - still early I know

Freeman and Stafford shouldn't be on this list. If Griffin looks as promising as those guys as early as they have we should be pleased.

Flacco and Schaub are starting-quality QBs, but they aren't Franchise QBs. They are players that can succeed with a good supporting cast, but they don't elevate the level of play around them. Even so, they've both won division titles, which is one of your criteria, and they are both young enough to still actually win a superbowl, especially Flacco.

Vick is a dope. It was his lack of common sense, not talent, that has stunted his career. He spent three years during the prime of his career either in jail or as a backup, and he's only now just recovering from that. I don't think you can use him as an example of a typical player. Even so, he's won division titles with two different teams, and he's still young enough to win a superbowl (though I'd really hate it if he did.)

Cutler I'll give you. I think he's a Franchise level player. I also think last year was the first year he had a defense, and surprise, his team won the division. This year they were right in the mix again until he got hurt. I'd be pleased as punch if we got a player of his calibre out of Griffin.

The funny thing is, even with this 'weak' list every single guy on it over the age of 23 has won his division at least once. And even young guys have already each led 10-win teams. And only Schaub and Vick will be older than Brees or Peyton Manning when they won their superbowl.

The difference between all those QB's and RG3...they didn't cost 3 1st round picks.

I expect us to win a Super Bowl with him provided the price tag, and I don't think that is a far fetched expectation. If we don't, the trade just wasn't worth it.

By that logic Bailey, Samuels and Arrington were busts because they cost us three first round picks and we didn't win a superbowl after drafting them. And we should be ready to declare Orakpo, Williams and Kerrigan busts if we don't win a superbowl during their careers as well, no matter how well they play.

Griffin is a Redskin now. He's not three picks. If he plays well he's not a bust. If he doesn't, he is. It's not that complicated.

 

[Elephant]

Griffin is a Redskin now. He's not three picks. If he plays well he's not a bust. If he doesn't, he is. It's not that complicated.

This kid came to us at a high price, therefore there are high expectations. If he never wins a Super Bowl in DC, the trade was a failure.

I will cheer him the entire time his is in B & G, but if he never wins a Super Bowl I will always question the price we paid for him. He will always be three 1st round picks.

Now that the draft is over, I understand we needed to pay that price, but it is Super Bowl or bust with RG3! I want John Elway, not Dan Marino for the price we paid.

 

[servumtuum]

This kid came to us at a high price, therefore there are high expectations. If he never wins a Super Bowl in DC, the trade was a failure.

I will cheer him the entire time his is in B & G, but if he never wins a Super Bowl I will always question the price we paid for him. He will always be three 1st round picks.

Now that the draft is over, I understand we needed to pay that price, but it is Super Bowl or bust with RG3! I want John Elway, not Dan Marino for the price we paid.

Elway rather than Marino? That's too "rest of the team" dependent IMO to use as a "did we pay too much for RG3" criterion. If RG3 puts up numbers anything like Marino did it won't be his fault if the Redskins can't translate that into a SB.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Ry, this may be the dumbest thing you have ever typed. Come on, man. You're telling me if RGIII isn't in the SB in the three years, but then rips off three in a row, he would still be considered a bust? I realize these sorts of standards are completely subjective and subject to all sorts of baggage that each individual carries when making those standards, but you are getting awfully close to the absurd here.

when you give up 3 firsts and a second for a guy, you expect instant improvement and someoen who had better be winning a superbowl within 3 years, otherwise you set your franchise back for nothing. you think the fanbase is gonna wana watch us win 10 games and exit in the first round? I guarantee that if we arent at least in a superbowl in 3 years, we hav another fan mutiny and rightfully so.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

This kid came to us at a high price, therefore there are high expectations. If he never wins a Super Bowl in DC, the trade was a failure.

I will cheer him the entire time his is in B & G, but if he never wins a Super Bowl I will always question the price we paid for him. He will always be three 1st round picks.

Now that the draft is over, I understand we needed to pay that price, but it is Super Bowl or bust with RG3! I want John Elway, not Dan Marino for the price we paid.

exactly, for that price we had better get a superbowl and it had better be soon.

 

[RG3 Fan]

I need some clarification.

I keep hearing giving up three first round picks. I thought the Redskins gave up first round picks for the next two years and not the next three years? What again did they give up?

 

[Neophyte]

when you give up 3 firsts and a second for a guy, you expect instant improvement and someoen who had better be winning a superbowl within 3 years, otherwise you set your franchise back for nothing. you think the fanbase is gonna wana watch us win 10 games and exit in the first round? I guarantee that if we arent at least in a superbowl in 3 years, we hav another fan mutiny and rightfully so.

Wrong. Absolutely. Wrong.

As long as this team is contending and exciting to watch in 3 years there will be no mutiny. The fanbase wants a consistent winner much more than a Super Bowl, at least for now. Once we have that consistency, then we will want the Super Bowl. Granted, no one is going to be upset if the Super Bowl comes at the beginning of the consistency but still...

 

[Goaldeje]

I keep hearing giving up three first round picks. I thought the Redskins gave up first round picks for the next two years and not the next three years? What again did they give up?

You are correct. We gave up two number ones (and a number two) to switch positions with the Rams.

when you give up 3 firsts and a second for a guy, you expect instant improvement and someoen who had better be winning a superbowl within 3 years, otherwise you set your franchise back for nothing. you think the fanbase is gonna wana watch us win 10 games and exit in the first round? I guarantee that if we arent at least in a superbowl in 3 years, we hav another fan mutiny and rightfully so.

Ry, come on man. At this point, you're grasping at straws. Let's consider the alternative, shall we? Let's say we didn't trade for Griff, and used those three first rounders on good, solid players. Given that the NFL average for first round picks is about 50/50, we would have ended up with 2 good contributors in that time period (I'm rounding up, giving the benefit of the doubt that the 2nd rounder would have worked out).

Those two good contributors might have been enough to... what? Maybe get us into the first round occassionally? Win ten games from time to time? Got the T-shirt on that scenario. Blah. And at that point, trading up to get a franchise QB would have been even more expensive than the trade for RGIII.

Oh, and by the way, ask Colts fans if they enjoyed the last ten years?

 

[fansince62]

eh....we had to get our franchise QB. That's the precondition for success. The market price to move up to the second spot to make it happen was most certainly exceptionally high. in this discussion, two things leap out for me:

1) The cap hits this year and next are what is really hurting this team (given the opportunity cost of the trade).

2) No one's factoring in that the teams around us that matter...in the NFE...are getting better without paying such a heavy price.

that said......we had to get our QB. I was prepared for almost any price. it's now up to management to get creative (i.e., earn their pay) and find alternate routes to populating the roster with something other than the pictorially entertaining types so many fans seem to oggle....but who pass through the team like water through a sieve. there's still a serious lack of talent on this team....and current talent needs to reach full potential (e.g., Rak has what....2 sacks total over his tenure here against NFE teams? what's with that?).

we have our QB. there's no equivocating or temporizing here - he's a keeper and gonna be a winner. I'm down with that. we can now proceed, however challenging the climb may be, to build a bona fide championship team. wasn't gonna happen on the course this team had set for the last 20 years.

 

[Elephant]

Wrong. Absolutely. Wrong.

As long as this team is contending and exciting to watch in 3 years there will be no mutiny. The fanbase wants a consistent winner much more than a Super Bowl, at least for now. Once we have that consistency, then we will want the Super Bowl. Granted, no one is going to be upset if the Super Bowl comes at the beginning of the consistency but still...

When I say I expect a Super Bowl from RG3, I would be pleased to have the same situation the Broncos had with Elway, He had a long career that ended with 2 SB victories. I am not saying RG3 has to do it tomorrow. I know that is fool-hearted, I know we need more "team". As long as we are competing within a few years, playoffs...perhaps a Conference Championship, I am fine. As long as when the kid has retired, it should be in B&G and there was at least 1 SB.

serv, the Elway as opposed to Marino comparison was more about both being successful and very competitive, just that ultimately Elway was a member of a team that couldn't have won a Super Bowl without him nor he without them.

Again, in retrospect...after yesterday's draft, I am convinced the trade was a move we needed to make. I do expect Super Bowl, but I am not on board with you on the fact we need it in 3 years Ryan.

And guys, the reality is that RG3 was drafted in the 1st round. That's one 1st round pick. We also gave up 2013 and 2014 1st round picks...that is 3 1st round picks for 1 player. The math is simple, the cost for RG3 was 3 1st round picks and a 2nd. However, after watching this draft and yesterday's events, we needed to pull the trigger on this move. I see that now.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

i disagree that we needed to make the move, if we built, added more talent this year, we could have done many things, however now we are what we are, i was not enthused by the rest of our draft, there were better options. but time will tell , im cheering for him.

 

[Nobody]

i disagree that we needed to make the move, if we built, added more talent this year, we could have done many things, however now we are what we are, i was not enthused by the rest of our draft, there were better options. but time will tell , im cheering for him.

So you'd suggest that we build the hell out of the o-line, you've made that clear. Then what? We have a solid o-line and no QB? How well has that ever worked for any team in NFL history? Not only that, but if you take the approach of building before getting a QB, most of the guys become too old or injury prone by the time you get a QB. It's like trying to run from the cops on crutches, you'll get caught fast. QBs typically have a very long lifespan in the league, so it gives you plenty of time to build the talent around them while the qb develops his skills. The truth is, you're only miserable because we didn't use every pick on a guard or tackle.

Without the move, we knew who we were. And none of us liked us.

 

[burgold]

So you'd suggest that we build the hell out of the o-line, you've made that clear. Then what? We have a solid o-line and no QB? How well has that ever worked for any team in NFL history? Not only that, but if you take the approach of building before getting a QB, most of the guys become too old or injury prone by the time you get a QB. It's like trying to run from the cops on crutches, you'll get caught fast. QBs typically have a very long lifespan in the league, so it gives you plenty of time to build the talent around them while the qb develops his skills. The truth is, you're only miserable because we didn't use every pick on a guard or tackle.

Without the move, we knew who we were. And none of us liked us.

And yet we picked three o linemen. That in itself also makes me very happy. Don't know if we got the right guys, but I loved that we made a serious attempt to address the o line or its depth.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

And yet we picked three o linemen. That in itself also makes me very happy. Don't know if we got the right guys, but I loved that we made a serious attempt to address the o line or its depth.

From what I've read, all 3 were on Shanahan's radar, which is a good thing. Compton I've read was a steal in the 6th round & Leribeus was a reach in the 3rd. They balance out IMO.

 

[Bulldog]

The 2000 Ravens model isn't going to work any longer. You can't keep entire defenses or offensive lines together anymore.

So, the new model is to build around a franchise qb for which you can swap out the receivers and runners over time.

And a defense built around a defensive line or secondary that is dominant and for which you then swap out the linebackers or safeties and let guys go in free agency when the get to that fifth year.

The Redskins needed to find a qb that could tilt the odds in their favor against the NFC East over time.

Selecting Tannehill or Foles wasn't going to elevate the Redskins that far.

These players would still in talent be trailing Manning and Vick.

Now we have a legit talent.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

The 2000 Ravens model isn't going to work any longer. You can't keep entire defenses or offensive lines together anymore.

So, the new model is to build around a franchise qb for which you can swap out the receivers and runners over time.

And a defense built around a defensive line or secondary that is dominant and for which you then swap out the linebackers or safeties and let guys go in free agency when the get to that fifth year.

The Redskins needed to find a qb that could tilt the odds in their favor against the NFC East over time.

Selecting Tannehill or Foles wasn't going to elevate the Redskins that far.

These players would still in talent be trailing Manning and Vick.

Now we have a legit talent.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

I am not saying you dont ever try to get a franchise qb, I am saying you dont sell the entire farm to get one and then expect low round draft choices and journeymen free agents to make up your entire Oline (aside from TW who was a high pick but has disappointed thus far).

I look at a team like Philly who I think wins the east this year, they used smart drafting to add to a very loaded team, they didnt expend serious resources to get a qb either, (caveat I am far happier with rg3 than I would be with Vick)

He will need to display some serious progress and be THE MAN for this trade not to get panned.

 

[Krieg]

I do not think that RG3 is going to suck. I think he will automatically give us three wins, this upcoming season alone, if we perform at every other position just as we did last year and he simply does what he's done so far.

I have more confidence today than I did when we first made the trade, I don't know...maybe the joy everybody else has exhibited is wearing on me. I still have my doubts, but I am confident he will be the face of the franchise for at least 5 years.

But, franchise QB is not why we gave up all that we did for him. This kid needs to win division titles and at least one Super Bowl or it will not have been worth it. We need more than a frnachise QB for what we paid, we need Lombardi Trophies.

Am I setting the bar too high for the kid? You better believe I am setting it high, but that is exactly what we paid for. This was an all in play, all in means Super Bowl!

Knowing egotistical NFL owners that do anything possible to make some money (thanks Jerry), I'd say the RG3 trade has already paid dividends for the ownership in the main way that they tally such things: merchandise and ticket sales. For the ownership, imo, the best case scenario is obviously multiple Lombardis, but I think they'll call it a trade well-done if he starts for 10 years, wins the division some and some playoff games, and maintains at least 25% of the media frenzy he has created thus far. That will more than pay for his salary and make Snyder and friends a fortune.

Sorry for the cynical view...but that's why I like college football better. At least I can still pretend it's not only about the money