• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

WUSA: The Redskins Real Problem: Their Wide Receivcers

LET'S GO!!

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State


I'm not calling this season a wash, not yet. I actually think the Redskins will be playing meaningful football in December. But when this year does eventually wind down and we look back on the season, there will be three areas of blame: Robert Griffin III, the Redskins defense and coaching.

And that isn't entirely fair.

This past offseason the Redskins failed to address their wide receiving corps. Remember this unit is so plagued without depth, that the Redskins went 1-5 without Pierre Garcon in the lineup in 2012. Shouldn't that have rang some alarm bells?


Spot on. We need help at a ton of positions. But we can't possibly compete without a serious upgrade at the WR position.

The Redskins Real Problem: Their Wide Receivers | wusa9.com
 

Goaldeje

The Legend
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
18,418
Reaction score
63
Points
328
Location
Waynesboro, VA

James Madison

Eh... a month ago we were all bemoaning the lack of depth along the OLine. Same story, different day.

Let's face it. With limited draft picks and getting bent over by Mara, there wasn't a whole lot of improving going on. We are hoping that Griff accelerates the 2nd year learning curve and the D doesn't get a lot worse. I foresee a more expansive offseason this year...
 

DieselPwr44

The Owner's Favorite
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
6,164
Reaction score
499
Points
163
Location
Sparta,NC


WR is way down on the list when it comes to the Redskins areas of need.

I'd think S,RT,CB and G are priorities this offseason.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State

WR is way down on the list when it comes to the Redskins areas of need.

I'd think S,RT,CB and G are priorities this offseason.
While we could use some improvement, we already have one of the better offensive lines in the league. The fourth best, statistically:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/09/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-first-quarter/4/

Now the way the game has changed recently, four new developments have happened:

1. The teams with the best RBs never, ever win the Superbowl.

2. Teams no longer need a top defense to get to the Superbowl. (New England)

3. Teams can have awful offensive lines and still win the Superbowl. (Green Bay)

4. In this new passing league, teams absolutely cannot make it to the Superbowl without great receiving options.

10 years ago, maybe even seven years ago, your prioritization would have been right on. But as the league has evolved, or devolved as Henry points out, WR has to move way up the list.

We just can't seriously compete in a passing league without another serious receiving threat.
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,949
Reaction score
530
Points
1,143

Florida State

That assessment of our OL is ridiculous! We aren't anywhere near the 4th best OL in the league!!! Our single biggest problem right now is the right side of the OL! Our most glaring weakness!!!
 

Fear The Spear

The Legend
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
19,626
Reaction score
126
Points
343
Location
BGO's Official Resident "Tech Dummy"


We are fine at WR.
At least relatively speaking.
It's way down the list of priorities.
Santana Moss is only 2 years removed from being a #1 receiver, and a formidable threat at #1, setting numerous Redskins records at the position
Now, he's #4 on the depth chart. And his skills have declined little or none in those 2 years
That should tell you something about how much stronger we are at the position.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State

That assessment of our OL is ridiculous! We aren't anywhere near the 4th best OL in the league!!! Our single biggest problem right now is the right side of the OL! Our most glaring weakness!!!
So you don't agree that we are fourth? What do you think, sixth? Eighth? We are definitely one of the better lines in the league.

A top pick or FA on that right side would make us elite. It still doesn't address our WRs. It doesn't have to be either/or.

And the Packers won the SB with a much worse OL than we currently whine about.
 

SilentThreat

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
9,191
Reaction score
1,870
Points
418
Location
Leesburg, Va


While we could use some improvement, we already have one of the better offensive lines in the league. The fourth best, statistically:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/09/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-first-quarter/4/

Now the way the game has changed recently, four new developments have happened:

1. The teams with the best RBs never, ever win the Superbowl.

2. Teams no longer need a top defense to get to the Superbowl. (New England)

3. Teams can have awful offensive lines and still win the Superbowl. (Green Bay)

4. In this new passing league, teams absolutely cannot make it to the Superbowl without great receiving options.

10 years ago, maybe even seven years ago, your prioritization would have been right on. But as the league has evolved, or devolved as Henry points out, WR has to move way up the list.

We just can't seriously compete in a passing league without another serious receiving threat.

1. Most of last years playoff teams had legit running games.
Baltimore (SB winner) - Ray Rice
San Francisco (NFC Champ) - Frank Gore
Houston Texans - Arian Foster
Washington Redskins - Alfred Morris
Minnesota Vikings - Adrian Peterson
Seattle Seahawks - Marshawn Lynch

The other teams had elite QB play

New England Patriots - Tom Brady
Green Bay Packers - Aaron Rodgers
Indianapolis Colts - Andrew Luck
Denver Broncos - Peyton Manning
Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan


Then the odd ball

Cincinnati Bengals

2. NOBODY has an "elite" defense anymore. I agree with you that the league has gone offensive, but i also think a lot of the defense is based on ball control. Seattle, San Fran, Denver, Cinci, and Houston had top 10 defenses last year and GB was 11th, still top half of the league. Denver SHOULD have been in the Superbowl, but a brain fart on defense cost them, which would have meant the 2 teams in the superbowl would have been ranked 2 and 3 in the regular season.

3. Most of those teams have good offensive lines, or a mobile QB who can make up for it..

4. Only 3 of those teams have ELITE WRs
Houston Texans - Andre Johnson
Cincinnati Bengals - A.J. Green
Atlanta Falcons - Julio Jones

and I'll throw this one in there but he's GREATLY helped by Peyton Manning, but he was a legit threat with Tebow.

Denver Broncos - Demaryius Thomas

We have Garcon, and Indy has Wayne, but they're not in that top tier of game breaking, game controlling WRs.


In fact, Minnesota, Washington, Seattle, New England, and San Francisco arguably view WR as a weakness.



I agree the league has gone offensive, but the ability to run the ball and stop the run is still the foundation of being successful. A good running game can make up for a lot of things including the lack of an elite WR core.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State

Didnt the ravens win with a 2k rb?
Didnt the rams win with Faulk?
Exactly. The game is totally different now.

Faulk? What decade was that?

That was a whole different sport.

How much success has Minnesota had with AD?

MJD? Chris Johnson? The last thing any team wants is an offense that has to feed AD 25x a game. Those teams never win.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State

We are fine at WR.
At least relatively speaking.
It's way down the list of priorities.
Santana Moss is only 2 years removed from being a #1 receiver, and a formidable threat at #1, setting numerous Redskins records at the position
Now, he's #4 on the depth chart. And his skills have declined little or none in those 2 years
That should tell you something about how much stronger we are at the position.
We are terrible at WR.

Garcon is great, and when he doesn't play? We are dead meat.

Moss is good, but nearing the end.

It could even be a TE. But we don't have a Gronk, Jimmy Graham, Witten or Gonzalez caliber on this roster.

We need another WR to take the double coverage off Garcon, and to keep the box from being stacked.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State

Ponder and Locker are the respective QBs with those backs.

Look, you know we aren't legitimately going after a prospect wr. Why keep fooling yourself only to get disappointed when it doesn't happen?
We can't seriously challenge unless we do. It's no longer a luxury....it's a necessity.

Drew Brees? Someone has to catch those passes. Multiple great receivers.

Same with Manning and Brady.

RG3 needs the same. And more than ever right now if we want him to pass more.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State

That's exactly what people said when Moss was #1. And we still have Moss. And he's still a viable threat.
He's not good enough to keep us from going 1-6 when Garcon is out. He's not nearly enough.
 

SilentThreat

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
9,191
Reaction score
1,870
Points
418
Location
Leesburg, Va


Name the top 10 WR in the league, and I'll show you a list of WR without a ring. An Elite WR is great, but it's not the end all be all.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State

Silent Threat, Baltimore doesn't win the SB last year without Boldin or Torrey Smith. Flacco was on fire...throwing the ball. Not handing off.

The Giants won with a great DL, and an amazing face mask catch. Victor Cruz, Manningham, Nicks.

The Patriots are RBBC. They never have one great RB...but always win.

Denver never has a great RB, and they can give up 50 to Dallas and still win.

We have one great receiving threat. It's not enough.
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,949
Reaction score
530
Points
1,143

Florida State

So you don't agree that we are fourth? What do you think, sixth? Eighth? We are definitely one of the better lines in the league.
If you think our offensive line is one of the better in the league, you are seriously delusional. Look McD5, I like you but man, you gotta lay off the glue. Do these stats take into consideration that the majority of our offensive snaps were when we we playing against soft zone defenses because the opposition had a lead?

A top pick or FA on that right side would make us elite. It still doesn't address our WRs. It doesn't have to be either/or.
What are you talking about...elite? If there isn't enough time in the pocket, you cannot get the ball to you WR's! Unless of course, you are playing from behind and the opposition is rushing 4 and dropping 8 because they know you're going to throw the ball!


And the Packers won the SB with a much worse OL than we currently whine about.
The Packers won with a less than ideal OL...yes, but they have arguably the best QB in the league who has a quick release and a great defense that year! Oh and it was a bonus that they had good WR's, but tell me what any of those WR's have done not playing in the offense with that QB?


It takes a well rounded team to win it all! You can disguise weaknesses like we did last year hiding how bad our OL is with a very mobile QB and a scheme that works.

You're right...it takes an elite player in this day of heavy passing to win it all, that is the QB position and an OL to protect him long enough to throw the ball. Not Wide receivers!
 
Last edited:

SilentThreat

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
9,191
Reaction score
1,870
Points
418
Location
Leesburg, Va


Silent Threat, Baltimore doesn't win the SB last year without Boldin or Torrey Smith. Flacco was on fire...throwing the ball. Not handing off.

The Giants won with a great DL, and an amazing face mask catch. Victor Cruz, Manningham, Nicks.

The Patriots are RBBC. They never have one great RB...but always win.

Denver never has a great RB, and they can give up 50 to Dallas and still win.

We have one great receiving threat. It's not enough.

Ray Rice had as much to do with the Superbowl as Smith/Bolden, if not more.... and as i posted earlier in the thread, Denver/New England have elite QBs. New England doesn't have a "great" receiving threat. They had 2 GREAT TEs and the best slot receiver on the planet. Peyton Manning has Thomas, and a bunch of other guys who look elite because he's the one throwing them the ball.


Im not saying our WR are our strength, im just pointing out that an elite WR is not the only way to be successful in this league.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State

Name the top 10 WR in the league, and I'll show you a list of WR without a ring. An Elite WR is great, but it's not the end all be all.
It's more important than ever before.

Brees doesn't need AD. He does need Jimmy Graham and Colston to set the league on fire.

Same with Manning, Green Bay. and Tom Brady.

Same with RG3.
 

McD5

The Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
14,955
Reaction score
16
Points
318
Location
Orlando

Florida State

El, How many sacks did Green Bay give up the year they won the SB?

Someone besides Garcon needs to catch TDs over the next five years. Who is that?
 

SilentThreat

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
9,191
Reaction score
1,870
Points
418
Location
Leesburg, Va


It's more important than ever before.

Brees doesn't need AD. He does need Jimmy Graham and Colston to set the league on fire.

Same with Manning, Green Bay. and Tom Brady.

Same with RG3.

Sproles and Colston have almost identical stats receiving and if you throw Thomas in there, they almost equal Graham. Graham is hands down the best TE in the game and they were under .500 last season.

Schemes and Coaches require certain players to be successful at certain positions. Some gameplans need an elite WR, others dont. Our gameplan does not REQUIRE "The Posse." We have the ability to go vertical, Hankerson is starting to play big, and Garcon is a playmaker. We utilize the TE position up the seam and with Griffin being comfortable and confident, he can spread it around. Pair that with a good play action game, and a strong running game, and we can.. oh i dont know, win a division?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Private conversations
Help Users
As we enjoy today's conversations, let's remember our dear friend 'Docsandy', Sandy Zier-Teitler, who would dearly love to be here with us today! We love and miss you Sandy ❤
    Top