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Two terrible, horrible, very bad, no good calls that changed the game.

One of many experimental iterations ...

Lanky Livingston

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****PREFACE: I am not blaming this loss on the refs; the Steelers were simply the better team, our OL appeared overmatched physically most of the afternoon along with our DLine, and plenty of miscues cost the Skins****

There were two calls (I mentioned them in another thread, but thought they might deserve their own) that I think changed the game for the worse.

The first call: On the ridiculously awful QB throwback call (really Kyle? Come on), Ryan Clark came in and tattooed Griffin on what appeared to me to be a clear-cut defenseless receiver, and he should have been penalized for that. There was no helmet-to-helmet contact, so that was out, but am I wrong that it should have been a defenseless receiver? I'm not sure what happens in that scenario, but I believe since its a personal foul it now outweighs the other penalty, and we would have gotten at least 5 yards and an automatic first down. From there, we only need 10-20 more yards to get in field goal range, instead we punt and instead of 17-9, the Steelers drive the field to make it 20-6.

The second call: This is actually a non-call - on the overturned interception, the defender is clearly pulling down on Robinson's arm. I'm not sure how you can get more blatant than that, but there was no call. I'm hoping for an offseason rule change that allows them to call PI if they see it in a review, but until then, no dice. Since they were in the endzone, it would have been Redskins ball on the 1 and they most likely would have scored a TD. Griffin is hard to stop from that short. Instead they drove and got a field goal to make it 27-12, instead of 27-16 (or better, if the above call is made).

Calls like these seem to always go against the Redskins...and while the Steelers probably still win the game, these two calls made the game decidedly less close and less exciting.

Anyway, just a mini-rant about the officiating...on to Carolina!
 

Ax

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Definitely a bad non call on the interference in the end zone.

Disagree on Ryans hit.
 

Goaldeje

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James Madison

I think the playcall to roll Griff out on the pass back was the worst call, worse than either of the ref's no-calls. Terrible decision by Kyle, who should have been stripped of his playcalling duties while the ball was in the air.

But yeah, the Robinson no call especially really grated on me.
 

Elephant

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While I am certainly grateful the regular refs are back, we are seeing their mortality too. I know exactly what calls you're talking about and there were many all throughout the NFL yesterday that makes me wonder if there is a Billy Donaghy situation going on in the NFL. I have to think there is something because there are calls that are clearly made that benefit one team over the other. Against the Giants, there were several calls that went against us that shouldn't have...making me wonder if there is a bias.

I know that sounds paranoid, and I am probably over reacting, but how do you explain the obvious calls that are visible in real time from a television set, that seem to go opposite of what is so clearly obvious? Last night in the Dallas game, I was yelling at the TV when the refs called the Dez Bryant incompletion at the end of the game a TD!~ If I can see he clearly hit the end line with his hand in real time from the TV set, ok it wasn't exactly clear, but it looked at first glance from an angle from a camera that was around 30-40 ft away, yet the referees who were no more than 10ft away could see clearly in front of them his hand was out of bounds.

I doubt there is blatant corruption, what I am suggesting here is there is a bias among referees...not all...that keeps them from being objective in certain scenarios. The call for a TD for Bryant, in Dallas, was the wrong call and any good referee should have made the correct call. I was an official for several years. I know how difficult it can be at times to make the wrong call, but that was an easy call to make, just like the ones Lanky saw, and so many I've seen over the past few years that always seem to go against us or any team playing Pittsburgh, New England, the Giants, the Cowgirls...
 

Lanky Livingston

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Definitely a bad non call on the interference in the end zone.

Disagree on Ryans hit.
You think Ryan's hit was clean? Granted, I think the defenseless WR rule in general is a load of crap (its football, not soccer), but the rule is the rule.
 

Lanky Livingston

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I doubt there is blatant corruption, what I am suggesting here is there is a bias among referees...not all...that keeps them from being objective in certain scenarios. The call for a TD for Bryant, in Dallas, was the wrong call and any good referee should have made the correct call. I was an official for several years. I know how difficult it can be at times to make the wrong call, but that was an easy call to make, just like the ones Lanky saw, and so many I've seen over the past few years that always seem to go against us or any team playing Pittsburgh, New England, the Giants, the Cowgirls...
Its just so frustrating because you're right - these calls just seem to go against us more than for us, especially against certain teams.

In a situation in which the Redskins are already overmatched, it makes it almost impossible.
 

Lanky Livingston

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I think the playcall to roll Griff out on the pass back was the worst call, worse than either of the ref's no-calls. Terrible decision by Kyle, who should have been stripped of his playcalling duties while the ball was in the air.
I'm glad someone else feels this way...I did not see the fury on socnets that I thought I would. It was the most ridiculous playcall I've ever seen against THAT defense. Terrible!
 

tshile

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I don't think it's that they go against us more often than others. I think we're just incapable of recovering from them like most of the other teams, which makes it seem like they always go against us.
 

Elephant

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I don't think it's that they go against us more often than others. I think we're just incapable of recovering from them like most of the other teams, which makes it seem like they always go against us.
And it could just be we pay more attention when the calls are against us, but when I see some of the calls being made like I saw yesterday throughout the NFL and last week us against the Giants, it makes me wonder if the refs are incapable of objectivity in certain situations... And if not, why? Is it a personal issue, or is there a mandate from the Old School owners to push the big media market teams? That may sound paranoid, but look at the Donaghy situation, they said it wouldn't happen at that level of sports...
 

tshile

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And it could just be we pay more attention when the calls are against us, but when I see some of the calls being made like I saw yesterday throughout the NFL and last week us against the Giants, it makes me wonder if the refs are incapable of objectivity in certain situations... And if not, why? Is it a personal issue, or is there a mandate from the Old School owners to push the big media market teams? That may sound paranoid, but look at the Donaghy situation, they said it wouldn't happen at that level of sports...
Well, since we're one of the largest media markets in the country it can't be that - it'd be a contradiction :)

I think it's the result of not having a good team.

Bad teams commit bad penalties. Bad teams commit lots of turnovers. We've been a bad team, a very very bad team, for about 20 years.

We're getting a lot better but we had a hell of a rut to climb out of. Majority of the guys we have problems with are still here from the last regime or filler guys that we picked up because we need bodies.

Just can't help but wonder how different the season is if we didn't lose jackson, merriweather, orakpo, carriker, garcon, and davis.
or if we just didn't lose half of them.

we're just starting to get depth... we're nowhere near the level of organization that you need to be to handle those kinds of injuries. we're getting there, but we're not there yet.
 

Elephant

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When a receiver is getting his arm held like that, he should just go down...not worry about the ball.

He'll get the call every time.

Just like the holding that never got called against Orakpo and still doesn't get called against Kerrigan. If they just go down and take a call or 2 early, they will get held less. The coaches should be teaching this to them. Unfortunately, that's part of the game...

t, I am not disputing what you're saying, that element is definitely part of it. But there is more to it than that. Is it corruption? I doubt it, that's the paranoia that strikes me every now and again when it comes to the Old School Owners and the extent of their vendetta against Snyder. But these refs make bad calls that affect the game...luckily they get over turned in some situations. The Dez Braynt scenario last night is a clear example of making the wrong call when the evidence was right in front of them...the Giants aren't a bad team. Why did that ref make that call? It was the Cowboys in Jerruh's palace, I am convinced that's why they called it a TD.
 

tshile

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The Dez Braynt scenario last night is a clear example of making the wrong call when the evidence was right in front of them...the Giants aren't a bad team. Why did that ref make that call? It was the Cowboys in Jerruh's palace, I am convinced that's why they called it a TD.
I tend to lean more towards the idea that if they call it a TD they get to automatically review it and have a better chance of getting the call right, than to call it not a TD and have to wonder if the other team has a challenge, if they do will they use it?

The only downside to that logic is if the camera angles do not give you conclusive evidence, then you have to uphold the call on the field.

Edit: to be clear I'm not really trying to say you're wrong, just offering alternatives. i'm well aware how much other owners and the league in general hates snyder, so what you're saying isn't out of the realm of possibility. I don't subscribe to your theories but they are plausible :)

It's a shame because the owners and NFL love the redskins franchise... it's in their best interest that we be a competent, competitive football team.
 

Shi no Tenshi

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I tend to lean more towards the idea that if they call it a TD they get to automatically review it and have a better chance of getting the call right, than to call it not a TD and have to wonder if the other team has a challenge, if they do will they use it?
Not to be too nitpicky, but it was under 2:00 left in the half; they can't throw a challenge flag. All reviews are from the booth, just as it was from the booth that the scoring play was reviewed.
 

tshile

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Not to be too nitpicky, but it was under 2:00 left in the half; they can't throw a challenge flag. All reviews are from the booth, just as it was from the booth that the scoring play was reviewed.
Ah, thank you :) Didn't remember it was under 2 minutes.

then it really doesn't matter, if the play is close they're going to review it either way.
 

Lanky Livingston

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On the QB throw-back: Shanahan said he "felt like a dumbsh!t" exposing Griffin to danger like that. Yeah, we felt like you're a dumbsh!t also, Mike! Also, apparently they didn't instruct Morgan to throw elsewhere if Griffin wasn't open...Uhhhhhh....
 

Goaldeje

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James Madison

Did he say that in his presser? Did he also say he bitch-slapped his son back to diapers?
 

Dead Money

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I may start a highlight reel of non calls every week that we can popularize on the interwebz. can't be any worse than the coaches like harbaugh who cry before the game even starts that they're not getting calls.
 

Jimbo

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Conspiracy theorists swear that Mara made it a condition of the new ref deal that the Skins not benefit from any calls, especially when their defensive line gets held.

There just might be something to this one.
 

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Only desperate teams run these kinds of plays. It means conventional things aren't working because your people can't man up against their people.

Of course Morris only getting 13 carries against the Steelers was a mistake. On a muddy field, the running back has the advantage on the defense.

But the Redskins this year have not been patient but in the rare case.

When Morris has gotten the carries and the defense has been kept off the field, the Redskins have been more competitive.

Kyle Shanahan evidently looks at each game in a vacuum and doesn't take experiences from one game to the next.

Joe Gibbs learned after 5 games in the NFL you have to develop an identity to be successful and that identity has to be based on the talents of the players at hand.

Given, the fact the line is a better run blocking unit than pass protection unit and the runners are more consistent than the pass-catchers - the Redskins should be following clubs like San Francisco and Baltimore that over the past couple of years have accentuated the run game and used the passing game off of that.
 

Lanky Livingston

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Of course Morris only getting 13 carries against the Steelers was a mistake. On a muddy field, the running back has the advantage on the defense.

But the Redskins this year have not been patient but in the rare case.

When Morris has gotten the carries and the defense has been kept off the field, the Redskins have been more competitive.

I was going to make this point, but figured I would just be a broken record. Thanks for pointing this out! It was truly ridiculous how pass-happy Kyle got in those conditions, with a bruising RB on pace for 1500 yards at his disposal.

EDIT: and not just pass-happy, he friggin' sent RGIII out on a pass! I still can't believe that.
 

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