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This has been a BAD free agency period

One of many experimental iterations ...

Rymanofthenorth

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I am willing to chalk some of it up to the NFL screwing us, believe me I am still raging about that, it was one of the most obvious cases of collusion and Bias that I have ever seen in professional sports. I was even willing to concede that our second dumbest move in the past 3 seasons could actuially have a shot at working out if we used free agency to load up on Oline and grab a playmaker or two on each side of the ball and grab a nosetackle and perhaps a corner or LB.

Obviously with the screwing, that was gonna be tough, however....

I am not overly impressed by our free agency moves this far, instead of overpaying for old washed up superstars whose best days are behind them but may still flash superstar play which we have found hasnt really worked out, we went the other way and instead overpaid for young neverweres who have upside but havnt done much with their talent as of yet. I am glad we have upgraded our team speed, and I am hopeful that adding a bunch more #3 receivers may inspire one of them to step up and become a 1 but we overpaid for those guys and overpaid big.

Garcon is way too inconsistent, he has solid speed but inconsistent hands and is known for disappearing for long stretches, yeah he had some bad qbs this year but his numbers werent much better with manning throwing him the ball. he actually had more catches with worse qbs, which I am hoping means he is improving as a player. at least he is young.

morgan we overpaid because he has been all potential no production, with all the people applauding this move I wondered if they noticed he had 15 catches for 220 yds in 5 games which would mean about 45 catches and 660 yards in a season add to that he is coming off of an injury. I dont see why we bothered with this.

If we dont over pay for Royal, this FA period wont be a total bust, as at least he has put up some huge numbers in a shanny system.

Now we move on to carriker, in 16 games he had 19 solo tackles and 5 sacks with 15 assisted tackles he was vastly improved over the season before but we just paid him like a pro bowler with basically 5 million a year for 4 years? I like him but there were upgrades available out there. and we still have no nose tackle, I swear its almost like shanny is trying to prove you can win with no nosetackle to spite us or something.

Now Oline, ffs there are significant upgrades out there, Evan mathis is one of the top guards in the game and somehow he is available AGAIN, I said sign him last year, instead Philly got him and he played even better! he proved it again last year, but he is undersized and light, however MASSIVE UPGRADE over what we have, why we havent signed him is beyond me, get the damn plane out there already. Winston, best free agent tackle out there, fills a massive hole for us at RT, why havent we pulled out all the stops? we wont find anyone remotely close in the draft and ffs he has played and excelled in this system. I would also go hard after Meyer from houston at center, yeah we signed monty but monty is solid to good, while meyer was a pro bow calibre player in this system, we should go hard after him. Bell would be another upgrade at Tackle but we arent even in the running?

we didnt even go after a nosetackle, this shows me that Haslett either has no clue or no say, because only a moron would not see that we dont have the single piece that would make this defence a top ten unit, you can get by with holes in a 3-4 but not at NT.

unless we get some Olinemen and a NT, this free agency just reminds me too much of teams who overpay for underwhelming talent. we did upgrade our team speed, but with a young QB we will need guys who catch the football.

I am hoping the next few days we will be bringing in some GOOD olinemen.
 

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I love ya buddy, but you're easily the most sad and depressing, impossible to please Redskins fan there has ever been :laugh:
 

China

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Did the free agency period end already? I missed that.
 

Rymanofthenorth

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I wouldnt argue that at all, thats what happens when you are a pollyanna for a decade through some of the worst seasons in team history.

I was actually somewhat excited that our holes on this team, were gonna be offset by a draft deep in interior linemen, then we decided to be impatient and sell the farm for one guy, I was just recovering from that and trying to get behind it because suddenly the free agent pool was going to be deep in linemen, when we went full retard and went after receivers (if we went after manningham, I would have been ok with that because it weakens a rival and gives us a big receiver who has put up numbers) instead we went after spped and potential and yet again IGNORED the key part of any winning team.

we need Olinemen, Shanny has to learn that in todays NFL, you protect the passer first then you worry about run blocking, and you dont skimp on Oline or dline because those are the core of your team.
 

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Army

I wouldnt argue that at all, thats what happens when you are a pollyanna for a decade through some of the worst seasons in team history.

I was actually somewhat excited that our holes on this team, were gonna be offset by a draft deep in interior linemen, then we decided to be impatient and sell the farm for one guy, I was just recovering from that and trying to get behind it because suddenly the free agent pool was going to be deep in linemen, when we went full retard and went after receivers (if we went after manningham, I would have been ok with that because it weakens a rival and gives us a big receiver who has put up numbers) instead we went after spped and potential and yet again IGNORED the key part of any winning team.

we need Olinemen, Shanny has to learn that in todays NFL, you protect the passer first then you worry about run blocking, and you dont skimp on Oline or dline because those are the core of your team.
I agree with your core argument, because our line has been our achille's heel for the better part of 2 decades. But it seems that no matter what moves we make, if we sign a guy that isn't a lineman, you say it's the worst decision we've ever made. We can only make one worst decision ever, not multiple ones.

We'll get our guys, you'll see. The key is patience, this thing isn't over yet, it's not even close. As a Redskins fan, you should know patience is a cakewalk to us :)

Now if we go into the season without picking up a lineman, then I'll be right here with you, grabbing a pitchfork. But I'm confident it won't come to that. Things are coming together more and more every day, nobody can do everything at once. And you never know, Shanny could be planning on burning the whole draft on guys that will make you buy stock in vaseline and tissues :D
 

Rymanofthenorth

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lol, no I am not quite THAT bad, but garcon? really? look at how much we paid for him!, Morgan? seriously? I think Id take any of paul, hank or santana or gaffney over him. Royal id give a shot based strictly on his numbers in this offence before but he has done squat in 3 seasons since.

I honestly dont care if we spend another 6 low round picks on linemen, everyone here got a chub over hurt playing, he was a 7th rounder, he played because we were terrible, yeah he played decently at times, but it would be awfully nice to see some beast plays from our oline, something we havent seen since thomas hurt his neck. who knows though maybe you are right, but we need at least one guard, a RT, and I think another Guard and a back up tackle who can push TW and keep him off the weed.
 

Canadian Hog

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Ryman,

I get your argument. However, while we can debate all day what the proper way of building a football team is, the fact of the matter is that the receiver and quarterback positions have had as many question marks as the offensive line has in Washington over the last two decades of misery.

Acquiring the likes of Garcon and Morgan are positives in the sense that they are guys with upside/promise, are young, and have league experience (that's the obvious). However, more so, I think these two moves were made with an eye towards the future, knowing that we don't have a first round pick in each of the next two years, where receiver would have become an obvious need to address. These acquisitions give us a way around the draft challenge we face in 2013 and 2014, while more importantly giving RG3 targets to grow with who are in the earlier stages of their careers.

With Griffin, Helu, T. Williams, Davis, Garcon, Morgan, and arguably Hankerson, you have a fresh core of young players to move forward and grow with, especially at some of the skill positions on offense. More importantly, it's a mix of new bodies that haven't been part of the culture of losing and horrific offense we've been exposed to for so long - they can lay down a new foundation so to speak/make their own mark on this franchise.

The fact of the matter is that while you'd be hard-pressed to find a "perfect" team in the NFL, the upper echelon teams got bodies at the skill positions. This offseason, there has definitely been a concerted effort to make changes in that area of our football team. Give me a RT or G in the third round who can make a difference and I'd be very pleased with this year's approach.

Like others have said, let's hope that there is still an eye towards addressing some of the other areas of need as free agency progresses.
 

Ax

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Premature evaluation. You've gone from foreplay straight to smoking a cigarette. Back up, slow down, and try to enjoy some in-between, my brother.
 

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Having a legitimate NFL quarterback changes everything--and finally gives you a chance to see what you actually DO have on the OL, at WR, in the backfield, even on a D which finally gets a chance to let its hair down because it's supported by the O.

If RG3 turns out to be the guy they think he is, the days of these finding these predictable, inevitable "I know better than the team does!" threads will finally, mercifully, be numbered.

But don't worry Ry, we'll find ya something else to rail about. :cool:
 

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Wow. You make me seem like a glass-full guy fartin rainbows and puppy dogs all day, everyday. Although I'm not sold on Garcon's contract, I do think he's a player on the rise putting up almost 1000 yards with nobody at QB. Morgan's avg is a little deceiving too being that VD is their main target in that run happy offense in SF. I hope to see that our scouts identified him as someone who will excel in this system. Its funny everybody wants a diamond in the rough, but nobody wants to take chances on them. I like the strategy and have read a lot of praise from a lot of football people who think the change in philosophy is a good thing. I'm onboard.

The other part that's been hanging in the back of my head is "The Eli Factor". I don't think in a million years that RG3 would say no to us drafting him, but the very thought makes my manhood shrivel. So go out and put your best foot forward and do what you can to make sure the system changes to accommodate his strengths to help him feel comfortable. I know, I know, a massive RT or G would make him comfortable right? Well with his mobility, I think the offense changes more into what we saw in the 90's and early 2000s with Shanahan. So making him more comfortable might just have to be giving him some youth and speed to help him adjust while adjusting to him at the same time.

I do want the Oline upgraded, but the ZBS olinemen aren't always the top rated guys you see making the rounds. I think many of them are developed, check that I hope many of them are developed. Jamal Brown was a back breaker of an acquisition, its killed us over there on the right side since Jansen got hurt for the final time. This is the summer where he has to put up or shut up, I don't know where the cap is in regards to Brown, but if he isn't 110% this year I see him getting cut, especially with our cap restrictions.

So failure? Not yet. There is still a lot of time left in the offseason for an interior lineman to hit the streets because of a draftpick or reorg. Maybe they see someone in the draft they feel they can plug in. At first I wasn't happy that now we compete with the Raiders and the Texans for our type of players on the Oline but the flip side of that is that there will be more of an exchange of ZBS players as more teams adopt it.

I think its way to early to adopt a "we failed attitude". Just because we didn't get all the first day guys doesn't mean there isn't a solid plan in place. Too early to declare a win or lose, and I'm happy to shed the old "We won the offseason!!" mentality.
 

Henry

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We'll know how good or bad this offseason has been once the actual season is over.

Last offseason was a surprisingly good one. Let's hope this one is too.
 

Lanky Livingston

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Ryman posted a negative thread? I am SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I tell you.

Garçon & Morgan might be "young never weres" but they are young. That is the important thing. I've read several scouting evaluations of Garçon, and they have all been brimming about how good he is getting, and the type of pro he is. Yes, he has some drops, but so does Santana. The important thing to note about Garçon is his ability to get YACs - very important in the WCO. Theoretically we will now have a QB worth half a damn in getting him the ball, and we should see INSTANT improvement in our offense.

And as others have mentioned, we're not even 72 hours into the FA period; its a bit premature to judge these moves.
 

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Awesome sig, LL. Merçi. :)
 

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this points to the weakness inherent in the model of depending upon free agency to fill almost all of your needs.

both Garcon and Josh Morgan were #6 round draft picks in 2008 that the Redskins passed on taking and instead ended up with Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas.

Missing in the draft means having to depend upon free agency.

I think given the recent cap issues the current Redskins management has done a decent job in opening free agency by acquiring a wide receiver in Garcon that his own former GM Bill Polian indicated is ideally suited to the type of offense the Redskins are running.

He is clearly faster and a better deep threat than anyone else we have on the roster. At 25 he has room for growth but did start in a Super Bowl in 2009. He also seems to have the right attributes of good character and work ethic, which after the past 10 years in Washington is a VERY important factor to consider when invested dollars given the Haynesworth, McNabb, Deion Sanders and Jeff George moves in the past.

I keep reading he is small. He isn't small. He is a 6'1 and 210 receiver with speed, good balance and durability. You don't have to be 6'4 and 225 to be an effective receiver in the NFL. People need to get over the measurables they have pre-set for success and look around and see that there are players that don't fit that 'ideal' that perform at the highest levels.

Just look at Drew Brees who was supposed to be too short to see over the line and mark the entire field in the pocket.

Josh Morgan is a decent bet on a short deal. He is 6'1 and 215 and missed most of last season, but in the year before posted a 15.9 yard per catch average on 50 plus catches on a team that was under .500 at the time.

Not a bad bet at all.

I agree that NOW that the team has Garcon and Morgan in the fold it is time to move on and consider the OL and CB.

Another season of DHall as the 'cover' corner and a third corner of the Kevin Barnes/Philip Buchanon mold is simply not a palatable option.

The problem on the OL is the team made a big mistake in committing millions in bonus dollars to Jammal Brown and Chris Chester so there are limited dollars to go after additional starters here in a market where OL are being chased in each case by multiple teams.

I think we need to cut Jammal Brown on after June 1. I guess we are stuck with Chester for the next couple of seasons and he is not awful. But he is not a real asset either. He is a very average player and we should have taken a cue from the Ravens when they refused to make a multi-year commitment to him.

I would also like to see the Redskins use that #3 pick and one of the #4 picks in a deep draft for OL to grab 2 younger players to develop who have greater upside than Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt, who may still be part of the equation but seem to be further away from settling in as regulars.

Overall, though, I will give the Redskins a B for free agency at this point.

They got the receivers they needed who have put up some very good numbers at a younger age in the NFL.

We simply can't keep depending upon injured players from the Kellys to the Hankersons to get healthy and make us a productive offense.

If Hankerson comes back and is an impact player, great. There is room for him to be the #2 and Morgan can be the #3.

I still think we need to clean house on the older vets, starting with Moss and Stallworth.

Some of the younger players like Austin and Banks are limited and don't seem to be the type of players that will be around when this team is ready to contend.
 

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Right now you can't say the guys we signed won't be good. Garcon almost had a 1K yrds with Painter and Collins as the QB. Imagine what he can do with RG3? Morgan had a dysfunctional Smith as QB. What will he do with RG3?

Our FO has gotten a couple guys that can grow and develop with RG3. I like the what we have done. Imagine the chemistry these guys can develop.

If RG3 is as good as advertized then we will see a different offense and our WR's will be better as well.

Carriker...I like this guy. He is a blue collar guy that does his job. He doesn't show the numbers, but his job is to tie up OL so the LB's can. With Carriker and a healthy Jarvis Jenkins we will have a very good DL rotation.
 

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Before last season, Morgan had very respectable 15.9 and 14.6 yards per catch averages on a SF team that was running a lot of short and intermediate stuff before Harbaugh arrived.

The Alex Smith we saw last year was not the same player we saw in 2008 and 2009.
 

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well, you are correct - and part of that is we carried far too many players listed as wide receivers who don't actually play the position.

Brandon Banks and Terrence Austin are special teams returners. They are not legitimate NFL receivers.

Others such as Armstrong and Stallworth IMO are waiver wire quality performers a team can pick up DURING the season when there are injuries.

So, if you take out Moss as a trade or release option that leaves IMO Gaffney, Hankerson and Paul as receivers to be added to Garcon and Morgan for 2012.

That's 5 receivers with the opportunity to bring in an additional draft pick or veteran down the line in second tier free agency later on in the Spring.
 

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Lost in all this is that last year's WR draft picks, in particular Hankerson, and also Paul and Robinson, could turn out to be solid pros. Maybe more than solid. The Skins WR corps suddenly looks a lot different if Hank turns out to be a legit #1...and even more so is one of the two others a competent 3 or 4.

Add to that Garçon and Morgan, and a legit QB throwing to them, that's a group I might not feel too bad about going to war with.

*

Edit: Got delayed in post this....I see brother Bulldog didn't. :)
 

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