Texas city revives paddling as it takes a swat at misbehavior

[Sarge]

Heh, heh, heh. Bring it on

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/15/AR2010041505964.html

TEMPLE, TEX. -- In an era when students talk back to teachers, skip class and wear ever-more-risque clothing to school, one central Texas city has hit upon a deceptively simple solution: Bring back the paddle.

 

[Alaskan]

This should get the "My child can do no wrong" crowd all riled up.

 

[Skinsfan1311]

As someone who has had his ass paddled more than a couple of times, (courtesy of a couple of nuns at St. Pius X elementary school), I have no problem with that.

 

[Boone]

You may be surprised by this, but I'll be damned if I want some barely qualified teacher or principal deciding if or when to 'paddle' my child. Both my kids are teenagers, but if either of them ever needed some kind of corporal punishment, I sure as hell wouldn't want someone I barely know determining that and dishing it out.

I have no problem with any educator holding kids, including mine, totally accountable. But you wouldn't be laying your hands on my kids, not more than once anyway I'm not 'sensitive' or 'tender-hearted'. I just feel it's my decision to make, not anyone elses, to make.

 

[Elephant]

You may be surprised by this, but I'll be damned if I want some barely qualified teacher or principal deciding if or when to 'paddle' my child. Both my kids are teenagers, but if either of them ever needed some kind of corporal punishment, I sure as hell wouldn't want someone I barely know determining that and dishing it out.

I have no problem with any educator holding kids, including mine, totally accountable. But you wouldn't be laying your hands on my kids, not more than once anyway I'm not 'sensitive' or 'tender-hearted'. I just feel it's my decision to make, not anyone elses, to make.

I gotta agree with Boone that I would not want just anyone I didn't know touching my kid, but I also have to ask why you don't know the teachers or principal? I am not judging you here Boone, but I ask why you don't know those involved in your children's education? I would like to think I would take the time to meet with them and get to know them. It would be at this point I would feel comfortable with a paddle to my child's ass if I felt comfortable knowing the individual doing the paddling is using tact.

 

[Boone]

I meant what I said. I don't 'know' them. I've met them. I've chatted with them. I've even had some fairly involved discussions with them. But I don't know them. Just as I've found out that there are teachers whose public face doesn't match what they may say or do in the classroom, when it's no one but them and the children they are responsible watching, I wouldn't be comfortable giving that authority to someone that I'm not related to.

Seriously - this is really one of those 'lightning rod' topics that is a lot more about pigeon-holing people based on where they land on the the issue than it is about a real issue. No one ever laid a hand on me as a kid in school, nor any of my classmates. Yet my teachers, almost without exception over 12 years of public school, were never anything but in total control. I think that tells us that things like paddling, spanking, or otherwise laying hands on students aren't generally necessary.

And if the argument is going to turn into 'yeah, but times are different, kids aren't like they used to be, their parents don't discipline them, etc..etc...' my response to that is, yeah? Well maybe the teachers clamoring for this kind of authority aren't what they used to be either? Because if you can't control or gain the respect of students under your watch without the threat of physical intervention, sorry, but you're not very effective.

I just don't believe anyone has the right to lay hands on my kids. I would never sanction or tolerate it, sorry

 

[Elephant]

No pigeon holing here, just asking and I respect your feelings. In my experience, I had a shop teacher who would come by and slap me in the back of the head, not hard, just enough to wake me up. Sometimes I was acting up and sometimes he would surprise me with it, explaining that it was for the next time I acted up. But he was a genuine man from a long ago, gone era. I respected him more than most of my teachers. If a teacher today did anything remotely close to this they would be sued in a heart beat.

On the other hand, I agree with your assessment about teachers who are in a classroom who aren't worth a ****! I am tutoring a friend's son in American government right now and I have been trying to set up an appointment to sit down with his teacher for 2 months to no avail. That tells me this woman doesn't give a **** about this child and I would not want anyone like her having that authority you spoke of.

I guess this issue simply exposes my belief in corporal punishment. However you make a valid point as to who is to deliver said punishment. Hell, as I am writing this, I am watching a police officer beat some one with a baton for no apparent reason on TV.

 

[Boone]

The 'pigeon-holing' comment wasn't directed at anyone in this thread, just an observation that I think many want to make this kind of controversial topic about 2 sides when the reality is, it's controversial for a reason - there are a lot of ways to look at it.

I don't have a problem with physicality in the proper context. I spanked my kids when they were younger, although sparingly. I question how effective it ultimately is, and I have also noticed, even personally, that adults generally resort to getting physical when they themselves are emotionally charged, angry, or frustrated. That's a poor reason to resort to it in general. Not saying it's always unjustifiable, just that many times it's hardly a well-reasoned or 'rationale' decision, but more of a reaction. With that in mind, I have enough reservations when I'm doing it to my own kid - I don't trust others to make those decisions.

 

[Blondie]

As an educator and administrator, I deem this thread a "READ ONLY" for me.

 

[Pravda]

I wonder if this was prepared by the Board of Ed more as a means of deterrence than of actual intention to follow through. Obviously, the efficacy of doing that would go by the wayside the first time the Board didn't follow the new policy.

 

[Henry]

I gotta agree with Boone that I would not want just anyone I didn't know touching my kid, but I also have to ask why you don't know the teachers or principal? I am not judging you here Boone, but I ask why you don't know those involved in your children's education? I would like to think I would take the time to meet with them and get to know them. It would be at this point I would feel comfortable with a paddle to my child's ass if I felt comfortable knowing the individual doing the paddling is using tact.

Well, you could very well know your principal and think he/she is a complete idiot. I can tell you from first hand experience this is the case as often as it isn't.

There is one principal I can think of in particular that would have been strangled by my wife if she had so much as laid a finger on my son.

Two actually, now that I think about it.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Well Boone, here's the problem. You are a fine parent, raised your kids right, and they probably are both well behaved. Unfortunately, most parents these days suck big time. Just go to the mall, or anywhere where people have their kids in public, and you'll see horrible parenting.

I'm not arguing for either side - but what is the solution? Kids are horrible these days, way worse than we ever were.

 

[Boone]

Maybe. Not sure that's an argument for educational staff whacking on them though. There are problems. I'm just challenging this as 'the solution'.

 

[Elephant]

Well, you could very well know your principal and think he/she is a complete idiot. I can tell you from first hand experience this is the case as often as it isn't.

There is one principal I can think of in particular that would have been strangled by my wife if she had so much as laid a finger on my son.

Two actually, now that I think about it.

Which bodes well for the argument Boone raises. Who is properly qualified to adequately administer the paddle? Like I wrote earlier, I was watching a clip of an out of control cop swinging away at a man who had followed his commands. The cop told him to get down, so the man got down on his knees. The cop told him to get down again after he had dropped to his knees so the man looked at him with a little confusion. The cop then whipped the man incessantly with his baton as the man's brother and sister in law watched on pleading with the cop to tell the man exactly what the cop wanted their brother to do.

It was just more proof that some who are charged with enforcing our laws and in this case of schools enforcing these types of punishments are not qualified, especially if it is in anger that they use these methods of punishment.

I was hearkening back to my days as kid when I would get smacked in the back of my head by a beloved (and I mean that) teacher or the neighbors would spank me when I got out of hand while my mom was at work when I got out of control. I still think that many kids these days need to be paddled. Sitting at my desk earlier enjoying the windows open I hear someone out the window saying, "F*** that MF'er!" I looked out the window and saw a young girl who couldn't have been more than 12 years old.

 

[Alaskan]

Recently I was at JC Penney’s waiting for my wife to pick up a catalog order. The escalator was out and there was a 50 something guy working on it. He got it fixed and put his tools away. Then a kid, 9 or 10 started playing around the escalator, putting things on the hand rail and letting them ride up. The kids mother was about 30 feet away, paying for some purchases and wasn’t paying attention. The man told the kid that the escalator wasn’t a toy and he shouldn’t be playing with it, He didn’t scream or swear but he did speak in an authoritative voice. The mother then woke up and sprang into action. She told the man not to speak to her son in that tone of voice, etc. He replied that the escalator wasn’t a toy and he shouldn’t be playing on or around it and she should pay more attention to what he was doing. It got pretty testy as both the man and woman escalated their tone before they both backed off.

At that age kids are sponges, and the lesson the kid learned is that he can do whatever he wants and that no one can say anything to him. He will (if he hasn’t already) transferred that lack of respect to teachers, cops and any other adult authority figure he comes into contact with and eventually to his mother herself. The ironic thing of course is if the kid had fallen down the escalator, the woman would be rushing to a lawyer and somehow making it JC Penney’s fault.


That kid, then ends up in your kid’s class and is so disruptive that he not only doesn’t learn anything, but he also prevents the 30 other kids in class from learning anything.

There were excellent teachers in my kid’s elementary school that couldn’t wait to retire because the kids were simply out of control and the parents wouldn’t do anything and the teachers hands were completely tied. We live in a solidly middle class area. I can only imagine what the inner-city schools are like.

You can say that the teachers should be able to control the class, but that’s pretty hard to do when the parents have taught their kids to disrespect authority figures and that they can do no wrong. A teacher on another message board told the story about calling a parent because the kid had told him to F..K off. The parent told the teacher to F—K off too. There is no way that teacher is going to be able to earn the respect of that kid given the lessons he is being taught at home.

 

[Boone]

That may all be entirely true Alaskan. It may still not justify empowering teachers to lay hands on other peoples kids. Sorry - we can agree to disagree. I'm not accountable for other people's parenting, the quality of their kids, or what to do about the challenges other screwed up parents create. I'm accountable to my kids and I'm not going to tolerate someone physically 'disciplining' them. Then again, my kids are well-behaved, respectful, straight A students, so I don't have to. I guess where I'd really argue with what you're hinting at is whether corporal punishment, with the kind of kids you are describing, is really going to be effective. I suspect not.

 

[Goaldeje]

That may all be entirely true Alaskan. It may still not justify empowering teachers to lay hands on other peoples kids. Sorry - we can agree to disagree. I'm not accountable for other people's parenting, the quality of their kids, or what to do about the challenges other screwed up parents create. I'm accountable to my kids and I'm not going to tolerate someone physically 'disciplining' them. Then again, my kids are well-behaved, respectful, straight A students, so I don't have to. I guess where I'd really argue with what you're hinting at is whether corporal punishment, with the kind of kids you are describing, is really going to be effective. I suspect not.

You know, I used to be on the other side of this argument, but I now suspect you are correct. The problem is not the kids, it's the parents. Paddling the kids really isn't going to improve anything, at least for most of these kids. Especially when the parents whine and bitch that someone disciplined their kids without their permission... that just serves to reinforce the kids' attitudes.

Kind of a no-win situation... unless the state would allow the teachers to paddle the parents?

 

[Alaskan]

That may all be entirely true Alaskan. It may still not justify empowering teachers to lay hands on other peoples kids. Sorry - we can agree to disagree. I'm not accountable for other people's parenting, the quality of their kids, or what to do about the challenges other screwed up parents create. I'm accountable to my kids and I'm not going to tolerate someone physically 'disciplining' them. Then again, my kids are well-behaved, respectful, straight A students, so I don't have to. I guess where I'd really argue with what you're hinting at is whether corporal punishment, with the kind of kids you are describing, is really going to be effective. I suspect not.

I understand what you are saying and I’m not sure what the solution is. Back when I was growing up, adults were automatically given respect and if an adult complained about my behavior, my dad would take the complaint seriously and it was my responsibility to explain myself and my dad had pretty good BS radar.

The behavior of the few ends hurting all the kids who are trying to get educated so that they can compete in a very competitive world. Maybe, the school need to set up special classes for the trouble makers, run by former drill sergeants where the objective is not to educate them but simply to segregate the trouble makers from those that want to learn and to keep them under control. Sure you are in effect simply throwing those kids away but that’s better than hurting the opportunities for the majority of kids that want to learn.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Kind of a no-win situation... unless the state would allow the teachers to paddle the parents?

Ha, there's the solution!!

 

[Henry]

Welcome to Texas:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehgfdZeigFI[/media]