SkinnedAussie's home team in their play-offs.

[SkinnedAussie]

For anyone who follows Aussie Rules, the first weekend of play-offs (finals, as we call them) has been completed, and we are now down to 6 teams remaining.

My team, Collingwood, finished the regular season on top of the standings (we call it a ladder), and went in to September as the favorites to win the Grand Final (Super Bowl). We comfortably beat the Western Bulldogs 124 points to 62.
This now gives us a week off to rest up and prepare for what I hope to be the last two wins of the year.

 

[Boone]

Congrats

I know next to nothing about Aussie Football.

That being said... Go Magpies!!!

Maybe BGO needs to adopt a team...

 

[SkinnedAussie]

Crikey, it's even the right logo! The old one had the flags swapped.

After 22 weeks, we weren't the dominant team, but even after a loss in the last game, we still finished half a game ahead of 2nd (we get 4 points for a win, 2 points for a draw - no extra time in the regular season).

Two former Magpies have been vying for roster spots with NFL teams - Sav Rocca retains his spot at the Eagles, whereas Chris Bryan didn't make the cut with the Packers.

 

[SkinnedAussie]

BGO are more than welcome to adopt the most supported AFL team in the country. At last count, we had in excess of 50,000 paid members, which is enough to fill just over 50% of the largest stadium in the country - the MCG.

The colours are black and white. That's it, nothing else. However, we do have two styles of jumper (jersey) - white vertical stripes on a black background,

or black vertical stripes on a white background.

Walking off after a game earlier in the season.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Adoption is a good thing.

That is a lot of points and not sure if it's the norm. Good luck Collingwood!

 

[SkinnedAussie]

The way it works is you get 4 points for a win, 2 points for a draw, an 0 for a loss.

Collingwood finished the season with 17 wins, a draw, and 4 losses, for a total of 70 points. The team who finished 2nd, Geelong, were two points back on 68.

In the instance that teams are level on points, percentage then comes into play. In one of the very few instances were you can have a % of more than 100, AFL shines. It works like this: total points scored for divided by total points scored against multiplied by 100 (to 2 decimal places). Therefore, two teams could be level on points (2 wins, 2 losses - 8 points), but the team with the higher % is placed higher.

In finals (play-offs), points and % are a non factor. As we have a final 8, this is split in to two 'divisions'. 5th plays 8th; 6th plays 7th, then 1st plays 4th, and 2nd plays 3rd. The weekends results using the above: Fremantle (6) beat Hawthorn (7) - Hawthorn eliminated; Fremantle play next week. Sydney (5) beat Carlton (8) - Carlton out; Sydney play on. Collingwood (1) beat the Western Bulldogs (4) - Collingwood get a week off; WB play Sydney next week. St Kilda (3) beat Geelong (2) - St Kilda get the week off; Geelong play Fremantle next week.

Now, the loser of WB v Sydney is knocked out; the winner plays St Kilda. The winner advances to the Grand Final. The loser of Geelong v Fremantle is done; the winner plays Collingwood. The winner of that game advances to the Grand Final.

And you guys thought the NFL play-off system was hard to work out!

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

If the Redskins ever lose the legal battle over our name and logo, I'll lead the fight to have them become the Magpies!


Who's with me?!


Best of luck, SA! Keep us updated! (Even though I don't understand the sport either. I used to watch it once in a while late at night on ESPN. Seemed like it would be a really cool sport to follow if I understood it.)

 

[SkinnedAussie]

The Washington Magpies? I like the sound of that!

It took me about 10 years to finally get my head around the NFL, and Aussie Rules is a lot less cut and dried than the NFL, so I don't expect anyone to understand it by just a few quick glimpses on ESPN. Heck, we've got umpires that don't understand it, and they have control the game!

I'll update again after the next lot of games, and I'll know then who we play next.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

Heck, we've got umpires that don't understand it, and they have control the game!

So there are some similarities between Aussie Rules and the NFL.

 

[SkinnedAussie]

I realised the similarity between the two as soon as I wrote it!

I only usually just watch Redskins games (when we get them), but does the NFL also have umps/refs who think they are more important than the game and must ensure they have the spotlight?

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

I realised the similarity between the two as soon as I wrote it!

I only usually just watch Redskins games (when we get them), but does the NFL also have umps/refs who think they are more important than the game and must ensure they have the spotlight?

No, honestly. Though you'll hear me complain about officiating plenty through the season, NFL officials are actually very good, and very professional. Do they make mistakes, of course. Does it sometimes feel like the Cowboys get the benefit of the doubt on questionable calls? Yep, it does. But a lot of that perception is probably my own bias.

All in all, I'd have to say NFL officiating is the best among the major US pro sports. But there are weekends during which you will CERTAINLY see me disagreeing with myself.

 

[SkinnedAussie]

Our umpires are not professional (they all have day jobs) and the same three field umpires never work consecutive weeks together. This is where the major problem lies. They can never get any continuity, and as each umpire interprets different rules in different ways, it is the players, and the spectator, who are left scratching their heads.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

Our umpires are not professional (they all have day jobs) and the same three field umpires never work consecutive weeks together. This is where the major problem lies. They can never get any continuity, and as each umpire interprets different rules in different ways, it is the players, and the spectator, who are left scratching their heads.

Interesting.

NFL referees used to have regular jobs as well. Some still do, but it's far more rare now. The league decided that, to get the most professional performance out of it's officials, it had to PAY them like professionals.

As I'm sure you know, they also work as a crew, and that gives them the opportunity to work just like any other team of people. They understand what the other guy is going to do, what he's going to be watching for, and when he might need help.

The head of officiating for the league reviews every officials' performance every week. Occassionally there are penalties handed out for poor performance, such as what happened to highly-respected referee Ed Hochuli a couple years ago. The highest scoring officials for the season work the Super Bowl, so that's a nice incentive.

Now...and there will be some disagreement with this, but I also think instant replay is great. It's taken a number of years to refine it to the relatively efficient system it's become, but it's an effective tool that doesn't distract too much from the game. Although I'm not sure how well it would work with "judgement" or "interpretation" calls as you describe in Aussie Rules, but there might be something that could be done.

Frankly, I would have a hard time enjoying a sport that didn't have consistent officiating. It almost becomes like pro wrestling if the officials themselves don't agree on the rules.

(Speaking hypothetically, of course. I'm not saying that's how it is. I don't know. Just saying that's how it might seem if rule interpretations vary too much.)

 

[SkinnedAussie]

Instant replay won't work as there isn't the stop-start nature after every play like that in the NFL. However, there is talk that camera's will be attached to the goal posts as there have been more than usual mistakes from goal umpires (the blokes in the white coats!).

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

Instant replay won't work as there isn't the stop-start nature after every play like that in the NFL. However, there is talk that camera's will be attached to the goal posts as there have been more than usual mistakes from goal umpires (the blokes in the white coats!).

Man, I love those guys. So zoot-suit cool, and the way they signal a....goal?....(a "touchdown" is a "try," right?) is just bad ass.

It might be hard, given my limited understanding of the game, but can you give me an idea what types of judgement calls are being interpreted differently by different officials? The only thing I can really compare it to in my mind is baseball plate umpires having different strike zones. Of course there, hitters simply adjust their "eye" to what the plate ump is calling, and swing accordingly.

 

[SkinnedAussie]

There's the 'hands-in-the-back' rule, which mostly affects the forwards (goalkickers). A player oftens positions his opponent (defender) in front, and when the ball comes in high, the forward holds his ground with body strength. However, an umpire could be caught on the wrong angle and 'guess' that a hand was placed on the defenders back, and thus gives away a free kick to the defender. This is a very contentious rule as some umps allow a forearm to be used; some don't.

Another is the 'holding the ball' rule. A player, when tackled, must dispose of the ball in a correct manner - either by a kick or a legal handpass. A player cannot simply drop the ball on the ground. However, the player with the ball must also be given some time to be able to dispose of the ball. A player that is tackled the same time he gains possession isn't automatically holding the ball; but if he doesn't make any attempt to dispose of it, he can be penalised for holding the ball, or if disposal is incorrect, he can be penalised for dropping the ball or for incorrect disposal.

Now, some umpires allow a player to be turned a full 360 degrees before being penalised for holding, some will penalise him within seconds.

It is difficult to explain without visuals, especially if it's being explained to someone not familiar with the game, but I hope you can understand my explanation.

 

[SkinnedAussie]

Man, I love those guys. So zoot-suit cool, and the way they signal a....goal?....(a "touchdown" is a "try," right?) is just bad ass.

A goal is the same as a try, in scoring terms, and it's the same as a try.

A goal is worth 6 points, but unlike any other sport, you also get 'rewarded' for missing. A gaol is scored when the ball is kicked, without being touched, between the two biggest posts, but if the ball passes between a big post and a shorter post, you get 1 point, or a behind. You also get one point if the ball gets punched through the two big posts by an opponent, or your own teammate.

Therefore, a scoreline of 15.11 is made up of 15 goals (15 x 6) + 11 behinds, which = 101 points in total. The same total can be made up by 16 goals and 5 behinds (16.5.101), or 14 goals and 17 behinds (14.17.101).

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

Cool. The scoring makes sense. And so does the problem with the calls you're talking about. And in a way, it is similar to the strike zone issues in baseball I mentioned earlier. It's still the official making a different interpretation.

And don't even get me started on what's holding and what isn't. That's another frustration fans of the two sports apparently share.

From your description, I think your league would benefit from using an NFL-style model. Pay the officials enough that they can just work games, and study with senior officials/the league office when not working a game. Use crews instead of having them work with different guys every week. (If nothing else, this would allow the players to adjust to the tendencies of each crew; again, as baseball players do.)

And oversight/grading is always good. Especially when accompanied by rewards or penalties. I'm biased, but the NFL model works better than any sport I've seen here.

(Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go to a couple of other boards, and offer my solutions to other problems I don't understand. Brain surgery, rocket science, etc.)

 

[SkinnedAussie]

We, the spectators and paying public, have been crying out for years to make the umpires more professional, as in make umpiring their full time job, but the AFL hierarchy don't see it that way. They are happy to continue as is, even though the broadcast rights bought in a cool A$780million, to make the umps fully professional would cost too much!

When the next round of broadcasting rights are due (these ones expire at the end of 2012), they are expected to go for A$1billion. Surely, you would think the umpires would be made professional then? Also, you would think that games would be live in Australia? Friday nights are a 1hr delayed telecast, Sat afternoon is a 50min delayed telecast, Sat night is a 30min delayed telecast, with Sunday live. This is the free-to-air schedule, which about 65% of the nation depends on. If you want pay TV, the games they show are live, and pay TV also shows replays of all the games over from Mon to Weds, at various times.

 

[SkinnedAussie]

Now that this week's game are done and dusted, and two more teams have fallen out of the post-season race, I can advise that Collingwood will play Geelong next Friday night (Aust time). That would be very early Friday morning (3.30am?) for US viewers.

This game is the penultimate game of the year; much like the Conference Championship game, and will determine one of the Grand Finalists. The winner goes on; the loser is done.

The other game is between St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs. Again, the winner goes on to play in the GF; the loser starts planning for next year.

Geelong are the reigning premiers (champions), and have played in the last three Grand Finals, winning two. They have the runs on the board and know what it takes to win the big games. However, Collingwood have been THE best team all year, and with last week off, should be fresh and ready to take the next step after losing the the Preliminary Final the last three years, two of those to Geelong; by 5 points in 2007 in an absolute classic, then got smashed by 70+ last year.