Ron Jaworski: Q&A on RGIII

[China]

You forgot at least Steve Young and Brian Griese. Just sayin'.

And Jay Schroeder.

 

[Fear The Spear]

So you don't think his coaching mattered when he was Offensive Coordinator of the SF 49ers building up Steve Young from '92 to '94 when they won the Superbowl? Steve Young does.



Link

That quote only compliments Shanahan's play-calling, and does not address him as a QB developer. Would have been a perfect chance for Young to credit Shanahan for his personal development, but I don't see how he did so.

 

[servumtuum]

Let's take a look.
His history includes coaching the following starting QB's :

John Elway
Bill Musgrave
Bubby Brister
Chris Miller
Gus Frerotte
Steve Buerlein
Danny Kanell
Jarius Jackson
Jake Plummer
Jay Cutler
Donovan McNabb
Rex Grossman
John Beck

The QB's in that list who were successful - it had little or nothing to do with Shanahan's coaching.
The rest of them were either mediocre, or less than mediocre.
Thus, I see no evidence of him actually developing a QB into something much better than he already was.
Who do you say he developed into greatness ?

Fear, you apparently forgot a QB from when Shanahan was OC for the 49ers.

Steve Young.

A perspective on Shanahan and mobile QBs from John Gruden.

Gruden believes Griffin will succeed under Redskins coach Mike Shanahan because of Shanahan's track record with mobile quarterbacks.

"Some of the best tape that I've ever studied was Mike Shanahan and John Elway in Denver," Gruden said. "The back-to-back Super Bowl championship teams, they took advantage of John Elway’s mobility. A lot of people forget just how extraordinary Elway was handing the ball off to Terrell Davis, and those naked bootlegs off of those stretch plays were devastating.

"What Mike did in San Francisco with Steve Young, another mobile quarterback, those were as good of offensive tapes as I've ever seen. I think when you get Robert Griffin, one of the most explosive quarterbacks to ever play the position, in a Mike Shanahan-type system, the possibilities are very exciting, I think, with Mike Shanahan's imagination."

Link: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/tag/_/name/steve-young

 

[Fear The Spear]

Fear, you apparently forgot a QB from when Shanahan was OC for the 49ers.

Steve Young.

A perspective on Shanahan and mobile QBs from John Gruden.

Link: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/tag/_/name/steve-young

Problem with that assessment or comparison, is if we're judging the QB based on the OC at the given time, is that Kyle Shanahan is the offensive coordinator in this situation, not Mike

 

[Neophyte]

Geez Fear, if you aren't careful you will make Ryman look downright chipper.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Yea, it might be interesting for Ry and I to have a beer some time

 

[servumtuum]

Problem with that assessment or comparison, is if we're judging the QB based on the OC at the given time, is that Kyle Shanahan is the offensive coordinator in this situation, not Mike

Uh, no, Fear. You stated it as follows.


"The QB's in that list who were successful - it had little or nothing to do with Shanahan's coaching."

This assertion did not specify a particular coaching position and I introduced Gruden's assessment as a that of someone with coaching experience offering a different opinion on Mike Shanahan's effect on Elway and Young in his involvement with them. The position he held at the time is essentially irrelevant to the effect-in fact, it's likely as OC his effect on Young could arguably be said to be greater than any other coaching level with the possible exception of QB coach.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Let's take a look.
His history includes coaching the following starting QB's :

John Elway
Bill Musgrave
Bubby Brister
Chris Miller
Gus Frerotte
Steve Buerlein
Danny Kanell
Jarius Jackson
Jake Plummer
Jay Cutler
Donovan McNabb
Rex Grossman
John Beck

The QB's in that list who were successful - it had little or nothing to do with Shanahan's coaching.
The rest of them were either mediocre, or less than mediocre.
Thus, I see no evidence of him actually developing a QB into something much better than he already was.
Who do you say he developed into greatness ?

Well, you're right about a few of these QBs, but you're wrong about a few of them also. Jay Cutler, Jake Plummer, & Brian Griese (didn't make your list) all had their best statistical seasons by far under the tutelage of Shanahan. You know, the primary STARTING QBs for Shanahan's Broncos.

Its been pointed out by several people already, but you also left Steve Young off the list.

People always say Elway was good before Mike got there. Well, how many superbowl wins did Elway have before Shanahan? People often think that Shanahan just showed up and the Broncos won two superbowls - no, he was there two years before winning the first superbowl. Two years of installing his system and yes, coaching his quarterback.

Danny Kanell, Chris Miller, Gus Frerotte - you're cherry-picking here. 12 starts among the three of them for Shanahan. And Chris Miller? Really? He came back from 4 years out of the league to attempt a comeback with the Broncos after having like 77 concussions in one game. Come on, man - you gotta do better than that.

Donovan McNabb wanted no part of any development, and let his ego get in the way of any improvement. If he'd been willing to be coached, he could have done well here. I'll give you Grossman & Beck.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Geez Fear, if you aren't careful you will make Ryman look downright chipper.

This goes beyond Ryman's cheery disposition - even Ryman doesn't question Shanahan's pedigree as a QB coach (I don't believe). This is only the second time I've ever heard it happen, actually. The first time? Bitter Betty Donovan McNabb crying in his spilled milk.

 

[CounterTrey]

Well that and Cowboy fans Lanky, I hear it from them all the time. Had one tell me the other day he was thrilled we drafted Cousins along with Griffin as he thinks Shanahan will ruin him. I literally busted out laughing at him. Forget what he did with Young and Elway, what he did with Plummer and Griese (pro bowlers under him) was nothing short of miraculous and it's patently absurd to say he had nothing to do with development of any of those quarterbacks on that list.

Oh and as bad as McNabb was at times he was having one of the best seasons ever for a Quarterback in a Skins uniform when it comes to the long ball. They were leading the league in plays over 40yds IIRC.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Well that and Cowboy fans Lanky, I hear it from them all the time. Had one tell me the other day he was thrilled we drafted Cousins along with Griffin as he thinks Shanahan will ruin him. I literally busted out laughing at him. Forget what he did with Young and Elway, what he did with Plummer and Griese (pro bowlers under him) was nothing short of miraculous and it's patently absurd to say he had nothing to do with development of any of those quarterbacks on that list.

Oh and as bad as McNabb was at times he was having one of the best seasons ever for a Quarterback in a Skins uniform when it comes to the long ball. They were leading the league in plays over 40yds IIRC.

Yep, and he was on pace for the best yardage total of his career when he was benched.

 

[Neophyte]

Yep, and he was on pace for the best yardage total of his career when he was benched.

Yep, and he had his lowest completion percentage since 2006 and the most INT's in one year in his career.

Oh...and he wasn't winning.

 

[Elephant]

Yep, and he had his lowest completion percentage since 2006 and the most INT's in one year in his career.

Oh...and he wasn't winning.

We werent winning because of the switch to the 3-4!
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[CounterTrey]

We werent winning because of the switch to the 3-4!
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

Ziiing!

 

[servumtuum]

Wow.

The snark weigheth heavily this mornin'.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Yep, and he had his lowest completion percentage since 2006 and the most INT's in one year in his career.

Oh...and he wasn't winning.

Wait, so what is your point? You agree with Fear that Shanahan is not a good QBs guy?

 

[Neophyte]

Wait, so what is your point? You agree with Fear that Shanahan is not a good QBs guy?

Nope, I agree with nearly everyone else who thinks we didn't have a good QB. The "QB guy" is only as good as the physical talent he has to work with, IMHO.