Random Commanders Thoughts

[McD5]

You came in after 3 people said they would leave if the team changed their name and called them liars. You said that we wouldn't leave and your "reasons" behind it have nothing to do with why I root for the team. I have lived through 14-2, 3 super bowl wins, multiple hall of fame players, and a trip to Canton. You don't know anything about why I or anyone would stay or leave unless you listen.

I haven't called anyone a liar. I don't believe I've ever typed that word on this site.

People are emotional and dramatic. People say things out of frustration that don't always come to fruition.

If Seattle changes their name tomorrow, very few will care. People will still fight for tickets.

Winning football>>all the other noise.

 

[MikeSr619]

I haven't called anyone a liar. I don't believe I've ever typed that word on this site.

People are emotional and dramatic. People say things out of frustration that don't always come to fruition.

If Seattle changes their name tomorrow, very few will care. People will still fight for tickets.

Winning football>>all the other noise.

We say we would leave. You say we won't. We repeat and so do you. You are saying you dont believe what we say. You can dance around that word all you want but your implications and constant need to stand by a stance you dont have any solid evidence on is just you calling people a liar when they say what they would do.

This isnt Seattle..this isnt New England...this isnt Indy...this isnt any other city. This is DC and we are different from any other city and any other fanbase like they are from each other.

Also, dramatic and emotional? Mike, when people lay out logical reasons why they would do it and you come in and say "NO, they won't. I bet on it" aren't you being the dramatic one instead of just listening to what they have to say? Pretty rude of you to call people out as liars, then call them dramatic and emotional simply because you don't like what they've said.

 

[ntotoro]

I think if the Seattle Seahawks suddenly changed their name tomorrow to the Seattle Warriors.....that the stands would still be packed this season. TV ratings wouldn't suffer a bit.

People want to watch winning football.

Seattle-area fans are pretty big bandwagoners. You could call them the Seattle AnalLumps and they'd have fans as long as they won games. The Seahawks name doesn't have the same feelings generation-to-generation as the Washington Redskins.

Nick

 

[Om]

Here's a thought ... we could wait until something actually happens and then argue passionately about how it makes us feel.

Honestly, I have no idea sitting here today how I'd feel about a name change if it actually came to pass one day. So much would depend on the changed circumstances ... on the why it finally happened. It'd be one thing if forced on the team by, say, the NFL being afraid of losing sponsorship. But I've been saying for 20 years that if there were real, tangible, unbiased polling data from the actual Native American population indicating that some strong majority believed the name offensive and a slur and wanted it changed ... I'd like to think I'd not be alone in thinking it would be the right thing.

Absent such a thing ... hail to the Redskins.

 

[Boone]

I am not arguing the stadium would be empty. There are always people interested in going to NFL games - any NFL games. But I don't believe I'm unique - I think a lot of lifetime fans would say 'that's the final straw'. I don't have to wait for it to happen. And the reason for a name change would have no impact for me. For me the bottom line has always been that the team name was never meant to be an epithet, and has no significant societal history of being used as a racial epithet. I don't even care if someone manages to convince a majority that it's an epithet - it doesn't make it an epithet

No other franchise is so enmeshed in approaching a century of history and tradition directly associated with the team name like the Redskins are. Folks are free to do whatever they like if it happens, but I know what I will do.


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[McD5]

Seattle-area fans are pretty big bandwagoners. You could call them the Seattle AnalLumps and they'd have fans as long as they won games. The Seahawks name doesn't have the same feelings generation-to-generation as the Washington Redskins.

Nick

That's a good point. Every fan base is different.

But if the Patriots changed their name to the Warriors tomorrow, I still believe people would sit outside in the snow to watch Tom Brady.

 

[McD5]

I am not arguing the stadium would be empty. There are always people interested in going to NFL games - any NFL games. But I don't believe I'm unique - I think a lot of lifetime fans would say 'that's the final straw'. I don't have to wait for it to happen. And the reason for a name change would have no impact for me. For me the bottom line has always been that the team name was never meant to be an epithet, and has no significant societal history of being used as a racial epithet. I don't even care if someone manages to convince a majority that it's an epithet - it doesn't make it an epithet

No other franchise is so enmeshed in approaching a century of history and tradition directly associated with the team name like the Redskins are. Folks are free to do whatever they like if it happens, but I know what I will do.


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These are also good points. Very valid. I have a question though...

Would you be less inclined to leave the team if we had just gone 14-2, dominated the league and won the Superbowl? And you believed we might win it again the next year too?

 

[Boone]

No - it would make no difference to me. I may not be a typical fan - in fact I've never been a typical anything


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[Om]

Boone, I'm not sure we have to worry about anyone convincing Native Americans that they should be offended. I was talking about the possibility that Native Americans in overwhelming numbers were to express the feeling that they are, and have been all along.

But again, until and unless this actually comes to pass, I'm going to continue to believe what I've always believed---that the name is not and never was intended as a slur by the organization, the league, or its millions of supporters over the years. And, more importantly, that the only reason we're even having this conversation is due to the tireless efforts of a zealous minority comprised of a very small percentage of Native Americans, and an ever-growing legion of non-Native Americans glomming onto a cause for whatever personal reasons/agendas they each bring to the table.

I'm just willing to consider the possibility, however small, that I've been wrong all along though.

 

[McD5]

No - it would make no difference to me. I may not be a typical fan - in fact I've never been a typical anything


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Well, that's why we like you. But I don't think that's typical. And I do believe that many would find a name change less painful if we were true contenders most years.

 

[MikeSr619]

No - it would make no difference to me. I may not be a typical fan - in fact I've never been a typical anything


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exactly what we have all been saying. Glad he heard it =)

 

[Chris]

Honestly, I have no idea sitting here today how I'd feel about a name change if it actually came to pass one day. So much would depend on the changed circumstances ... on the why it finally happened. It'd be one thing if forced on the team by, say, the NFL being afraid of losing sponsorship.

Interesting point. For anyone who would leave the team but remain an NFL fan, would this be a game changer for you?

 

[Ax]

It's changing, and very few, if any will actually leave.

People always say statements like that. "I'll move to Canada if so and so is elected. I'll leave South Carolina if they ever take down the flag."

Bullshit. No one ever leaves.

I have read this, and all of your following posts, concerning this subject. It's not worth getting banned over, so I'll limit myself to just a few notes.

First and foremost, Om is right. Nothing has happened yet.
Shi no and Om are both right. If common sense rules the day, nothing will.
Mike is right. Dance around it all want to McD, but you called me, and others, lying, emotional, bullshit artists.
Boone is right. Principal trumps everything for some of us.
Your apples to asteroids comparison of some team voluntarily changing their name, versus us being forced to by PC ****wads is, let me be nice, inapplicable.

Worry about what you might do all you want.
But don't ****ing tell me what I will, or won't.

Purty please.

 

[hail2skins]

I hope they don't change the name.....when I hear "Redskins" I only think of football and not Native Americans......but if they did, I'd still be a fan. The only thing that would cause me to cease being an NFL fan is if the team relocated from the Washington area. And I don't think I could easily get back into it if Washington got another team if that happened.

 

[Snydershrugged]

I'll leave - and you'll know it because this site will either cease to exist or one of the other owners can carry on. If the Redskins cave to bullshit pc pressure I'm done.

I'm not sure how you are so emphatic it will change as the owner has been equally emphatic it won't?



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I will not only leave the team, I will leave the league. NFL isn't good enough for me to watch anymore sans my one loyalty to it.

 

[fansince62]

I haven't called anyone a liar. I don't believe I've ever typed that word on this site.

People are emotional and dramatic. People say things out of frustration that don't always come to fruition.

If Seattle changes their name tomorrow, very few will care. People will still fight for tickets.

Winning football>>all the other noise.

no...many people don't follow the herd. no kidding! why, some even act on principle! some of them actually invested a major part of their lives defending those principles.

yea...you're right. there's no room for principle these days.

there's a much larger backdrop to all of this.

 

[Goaldeje]

I think McD is right, overall. He is almost certainly wrong about those on this site. We are, after all obsessed. But by and large I think there will be gnashing of teeth and general unhappiness for a while; that will fade and mostly disappear within 5 years of the name being changed for most people.

And I think he is right that the name will change as well. Probably inevitable at this point, and it will probably happen relatively soon. Not because of the ruling yesterday, at least not directly. The ruling will galvanize those opposed to the name and eventually they will realize the only way to make their case to the NFL is NOT through morality (duh) or a sense of fairness or whatever nebulous sense of right and wrong they want to employ; eventually they will realize that by boycotting FedEx and causing them financial damage, they can make much more of an impact than anything else. At some point, that kind of pressure will make a difference to the NFL and/or Snyder and the wheels will turn that way.

Not if, but when at this point.

If this is too political, please feel free to delete. Those who are in favor of the name change have to be emboldened by the winds of change sweeping through the nation at this point in history. Their time is now, as it were.

 

[CounterTrey]

Considering they can't muster more than about 100 people (tops) to one of these protest rallies they plan months in advance at the stadium, I'd say it's pretty unlikely that these forces will be able to flex any financial muscle to put pressure on the NFL or its sponsors. There are a lot of people willing to spout off and make noise but actually organizing enough of a boycott to do financial harm? Not buying it.

Count me as another "bullshitter".

 

[Ax]

Currently, there are not enough of them to affect the team, or the NFL, financially.

And those who stand on principal, will not accept anything less than being, Redskins. I know I don't care much about Washington. I'd prefer us to remain the Washington Redskins. But I'd have no issue with the Virginia/Mid Atlantic/Richmond/etc.. Redskins.

 

[fansince62]

I am not arguing the stadium would be empty. There are always people interested in going to NFL games - any NFL games. But I don't believe I'm unique - I think a lot of lifetime fans would say 'that's the final straw'. I don't have to wait for it to happen. And the reason for a name change would have no impact for me. For me the bottom line has always been that the team name was never meant to be an epithet, and has no significant societal history of being used as a racial epithet. I don't even care if someone manages to convince a majority that it's an epithet - it doesn't make it an epithet

No other franchise is so enmeshed in approaching a century of history and tradition directly associated with the team name like the Redskins are. Folks are free to do whatever they like if it happens, but I know what I will do.


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you're exactly right Boone.

All these povs have been hashed and rehashed in BGO spaces before.

what I do know is this...trivial as this may seem except in some Alinksy'ite quarters, the slow frog boil goes on long enough you wake up one day and ..hey...you have precious few rights, you are controlled by an elite, you have no foundation and no future.