Random WFT Thoughts

One of many experimental iterations ...

Henry

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I got notified that he quoted me... now my interest is peaked
He just gave a more expansive statement on his skepticism :)
I'm usually better at editing myself ahead of time. It's an effort to not be too negative about this team these days. :)

ST, I specifically quoted your bit about optimism in the organization and noted that happens every time there's a new coach ... or something. Not really important.

I am going to make more of an effort to shut up and hope for the best.
 

Boone

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Marine Corps Virginia

I'm usually better at editing myself ahead of time. It's an effort to not be too negative about this team these days. :)

ST, I specifically quoted your bit about optimism in the organization and noted that happens every time there's a new coach ... or something. Not really important.

I am going to make more of an effort to shut up and hope for the best.
I thought your original post was dead-on. We've been through the ‘new regime' ‘cycle of optimism' before.


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SilentThreat

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I'm usually better at editing myself ahead of time. It's an effort to not be too negative about this team these days. :)

ST, I specifically quoted your bit about optimism in the organization and noted that happens every time there's a new coach ... or something. Not really important.

I am going to make more of an effort to shut up and hope for the best.
I get it, but what more do we have to hope for? We want it done differently than it was before. The first step of doing it different.... understanding that what we have been doing has not been working. We have taken that first step. We have taken that first step in the past as well, and the events that happened after that.... well that ultimately brought us back to where we are now, well where we were.

Now there is a building level of excitement, if for no other reasons, we have a chance to take those steps once again. Dan has acknowledged that Bruce was not the right guy. Something we all questioned was even possible. Does that mean we will turn a corner? Not directly no. It simply means that Dan understands what we had in the building... wasnt working. That itself is worth excitement and optimism, likely a cautious level... which I think most of the folks on this board who are excited are feeling.... cautious optimism.

This franchise is at an intersection.... if it stays straight, it will continue along the same plane of years past, minor deviations. If it finally takes a turn... there is an opportunity here to be something really special. No. 2 pick. No (current) QB controversy. Rookie WR that may be the best offensive weapon we have drafted since we won the SB. We ended the season with 5 starting caliber O-lineman under our control. No 'need' at RB.

A new starter at TE and this team could contend for the division next season, simply with an 'upgraded' defensive philosophy, and a new offensive scheme. 3 years from now, we COULD be in a very enviable situation.


We could also remain down that same path... because we ultimately have the same 'person' driving the car... .but if... just IF that guy finally understands that this road were on takes us nowhere good, and he decides to turn.... there is a lot to be excited about. I keep my hope in the idea that everyone has a limit before they look back and see how wrong they've been.
 

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The difference this time is a Joe Gibbs or Mike Shanahan is not expected to 'get along with' and 'collaborate' with the Vinny Cerratos and Bruce Allens of the world, who from the time the hirings did their best to undermine the coaches' authority especially in regards to being in the War Room on draft day and suggesting moves to Snyder.

That to me is why it was so important to get Eric Schaffer out of the building. Snyder had a long-standing relationship with Schaffer which gave him a potential platform to provide feedback to Dan on how he thought Rivera was doing with the team.

And that is something we don't need.

Snyder's only friends from 'old times' now are outside of Redskins Park - Clinton Portis, Moss and Chris Cooley.
 

Henry

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Well, without writing a dissertation about this I will just say I think you both may be overstating the importance of Bruce Allen. I don't think he was ever that much in charge of anything. Like Vinnie, he was a buffer and a sounding board for Snyder, the guy who carried out the team's dirty work. I don't think that either of those guys were ever in charge of much else.

'Snyder has learned his lesson this time' is now seven coaches old. I don't think he's learned a damn thing, other than the fans hated Bruce Allen so he had to go. Snyder has always known how to placate the fans after a bad run. It's what he's best at. For me, optimism will show up if this team ever wins some games.
 

MikefromOH

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I don't know if I believe that Allen had "no power" especially after seeing how he personally fired/ran out. Allen had a lot of bad decisions he was personally responsible for.
 

SilentThreat

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Well, without writing a dissertation about this I will just say I think you both may be overstating the importance of Bruce Allen. I don't think he was ever that much in charge of anything. Like Vinnie, he was a buffer and a sounding board for Snyder, the guy who carried out the team's dirty work. I don't think that either of those guys were ever in charge of much else.

'Snyder has learned his lesson this time' is now seven coaches old. I don't think he's learned a damn thing, other than the fans hated Bruce Allen so he had to go. Snyder has always known how to placate the fans after a bad run. It's what he's best at. For me, optimism will show up if this team ever wins some games.


I rationally cannot come up with anything that would prove my point.... so part of me is in this spectrum....

the fan in me is not supposed to be rational... i have to hold out hope that we find a way to be a winning franchise again...
 

Henry

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I rationally cannot come up with anything that would prove my point.... so part of me is in this spectrum....

the fan in me is not supposed to be rational... i have to hold out hope that we find a way to be a winning franchise again...
I totally understand, which is why I had decided to shut up. 🙂
 

Bulldog

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Bruce Allen conducted the Cousins negotiations fiasco, made the trade for Alex Smith while the coach learned of it afterward, and he determined the course and tenor in dealing with Trent Williams this past season.

He was an integral part of the dysfunction.

Let's not minimize that and make it seem as if these things just happened in a vacuum.

It's also a fact a number of teams refused to deal with Allen specifically.
 

Henry

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Bruce Allen conducted the Cousins negotiations fiasco, made the trade for Alex Smith while the coach learned of it afterward, and he determined the course and tenor in dealing with Trent Williams this past season.

He was an integral part of the dysfunction.
Yes, he was a PART of the disfunction. The lower ranking part. Do you honestly think any of those moves were made in a vacuum?

Let's not minimize that and make it seem as if these things just happened in a vacuum.
Exactly what I'm saying.
 

fansince62

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Yes, he was a PART of the disfunction. The lower ranking part. Do you honestly think any of those moves were made in a vacuum?



Exactly what I'm saying.
I agree. DS owns the franchise. He could have stepped in at any time. Complicity through silence or orchestrated? Don't know. Either way, DS' MO has been consistent: he prefers "yes people". The evidence is pretty clear he is not blessed wirth leadership skills...much less any sort of charismatic presence that sometimes overcomes personal liabilities.
 

DieselPwr44

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Most likely, it will take a 10-15 yr Patriot like run before fans look at Snyder with any smidgen of positivity.

He's earned every bit of that jaundice.
 

Bulldog

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Snyder didn't come up with the Smith trade.

Snyder didn't make the call to sign Paul Richardson or Josh Norman.

He did what many of us asked him to do after the Zorn fiasco, namely bring in people with football experience and let them make the deals.

Prior to the drafting of Haskins I don't think Snyder made moves on his own for some time.

His sin was not properly evaluating Allen and recognizing what Allen's actions and FU to the media and fans was doing to the franchise brand.
 

MikefromOH

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Alex Smith was a damn good deal. We were 6-2 when he got hurt.
 

Henry

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Snyder didn't come up with the Smith trade.

Snyder didn't make the call to sign Paul Richardson or Josh Norman.

He did what many of us asked him to do after the Zorn fiasco, namely bring in people with football experience and let them make the deals.
And you know this because Dan Snyder said so? Snyder never claimed THAT before, has he? Certainly not when he hired Schottenheimer (oh wait, he did) or when he hired Gibbs (oh wait, he did), or Shanahan (wait ... yup, he did). Now we find out he was behind the Haskins move, and you think that's the ONLY time he did that during the Gruden Era? Personally, I doubt it. Very much.

I think he may have tried the stay-out-of-things route when McLovin was here. Of course, McLovin got mysteriously run out of town after two years and two winning seasons ... the only back-to-back winning seasons of the past 20 years, by the way.

So yeah, after 20 years, seven coaches, four or five personnel guys, I do come to the conclusion that Snyder can't stay out of it. Oh, he might keep away for the next year or two, but he'll be back. If history is any indication, he'll be back.
 

ntotoro

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McLovin and LaFemina were both basically run out of town by Brucie. LaFemina, because he apparently told Snyder "You've gotta' dump this clown Bruce" and McLovin because the fans were giving him all the glory and Brucie had none.

That said... McLovin had plenty of stinkers in his drafts and we can't ignore that.
 

Bulldog

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No, what I am saying is Bruce Allen convinced Snyder to make some very questionable moves and it has to be recognized that Allen himself became a league pariah due to his dealings with his peers. That is on him.

When Allen was hired as GM he was endorsed by Mike Shanahan and on the surface to Snyder looked to be an experienced executive, having served in roles in Oakland and Tampa Bay.

And let's not kid ourselves many people here in DC approved of the Shanahan/Allen marriage at the time and granted that Snyder finally was hiring people with a track record after booting Cerrato.

Again, Snyder deserves criticism for allowing Allen over time to make moves and take stances that were against the best interests of the franchise.

How he handled Cousins and then Trent Williams showed Allen was petty and obsessive.

What I am saying now is if we are in 2022 with Rivera and we don't like the results we can blame Snyder but if are approving of the move now we have to take the blame ourselves as well.
 

MikefromOH

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These stupid rumors about "If Bellichek came here" are just proof that the offseason is ridiculous at times
 

Henry

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No, what I am saying is Bruce Allen convinced Snyder to make some very questionable moves and it has to be recognized that Allen himself became a league pariah due to his dealings with his peers. That is on him.

When Allen was hired as GM he was endorsed by Mike Shanahan and on the surface to Snyder looked to be an experienced executive, having served in roles in Oakland and Tampa Bay.
I could be remembering this wrong because I'm old and tired, but I seem to remember Allen being brought in largely as a guy to rubber stamp Shanahan's decisions. After Shanahan got run out of town for losing the Snyder tug-of-war with RG3, Allen got promoted to 'real' GM. And I seem to remember a lot of us not being totally thrilled with that.

And let's not kid ourselves many people here in DC approved of the Shanahan/Allen marriage at the time and granted that Snyder finally was hiring people with a track record after booting Cerrato.
Allen's track record was pretty well established by the time he got here. His tenure in Tampa was fairly disastrous, but the thinking was that Shanahan was the one making the moves so it was ok.

Again, Snyder deserves criticism for allowing Allen over time to make moves and take stances that were against the best interests of the franchise.

How he handled Cousins and then Trent Williams showed Allen was petty and obsessive.
I don't know Snyder personally, but after watching him and his organization over the past twenty years I get the impression he likes an inner circle that makes him feel comfortable and tells him what he wants to hear. He doesn't seem to be the type that likes being challenged, or told he's done something wrong. That might explain why it took him five extra years to realize Allen was, at best, useless. It's probably why Allen won out against McLovin. Seeing as the Redskins have not yet hired a new GM, I don't know that we can say Snyder has changed at all. Maybe he'll hire a guy who will not be afraid to say 'no,' emphatically, to him as needed. I tend to highly doubt it.

Rivera seems like he might be a guy like that. It will be interesting to watch. We know what happened to Shanahan and Schottenheimer.
 

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