Random Commanders Thoughts

[MikefromOH]

great super bowl, but I never get all the love for Doug. I always just thought he was a mediocre QB who had a great game behind an amazing cast.

 

[Win4us]

Not counting Trent’s fiasco when was the last time we had a player hold out strictly for $

I’m thinking it was Wilkinson but most likely mistaken

 

[Elephant]

Man - it never gets old watching the Doug Williams Super Bowl!

Also, glad for Skins not to be on this list. Baahaha, I hope the Dak issue draaaaaags on and becomes a major distraction!

I heard the other day that they are making a biopic about him. It will be interesting if it is a Hallmark type of biopic, or a quality Hollywood production.

I hope they do it right.

 

[Elephant]

great super bowl, but I never get all the love for Doug. I always just thought he was a mediocre QB who had a great game behind an amazing cast.

Just saw his Football Life production on NFLN, he was a damned good QB, especially his early years in Tampa, then absolutely dominating in the USFL when he left the NFL because Tampa would not even pay him in the top of his own team regarding salary. I think they said that 3/4 of the team was making more than him, even the backup QB when he had just barely missed out on taking Tampa to their 1st Super Bowl just a year removed from starting out 0-26 as a franchise. By the time we'd signed him, the toll of years of taking a beating had caught up with him.

 

[fansince62]

DW has always struck me as fundamentally a good man.

Once the team name is changed he will be among many of the memories I will miss when I bail.

 

[MikefromOH]

Just saw his Football Life production on NFLN, he was a damned good QB, especially his early years in Tampa, then absolutely dominating in the USFL when he left the NFL because Tampa would not even pay him in the top of his own team regarding salary. I think they said that 3/4 of the team was making more than him, even the backup QB when he had just barely missed out on taking Tampa to their 1st Super Bowl just a year removed from starting out 0-26 as a franchise. By the time we'd signed him, the toll of years of taking a beating had caught up with him.

I am not talking money, I am talking wins and stats. He was mediocre at best.

Williams retired with a 5–9 record as Redskins starter (8–9, counting playoffs) and a 38–42–1 record as a regular season starter (42–45–1, including 7 playoff starts). He had 100 passing touchdowns, and 15 rushing touchdowns, in 88 NFL games.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Talk of trading Ryan Anderson heated up a bit on social media today due to an article from Ben Standig. It's just speculation and nothing more.

 

[MikefromOH]

I read that, too. I don't really know who that person is or how he has inside info.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Ben has worked for the WaPo, NBCW, and now works for The Athletic. He's probably the best overall insider for Redskins, Wizards, and Georgetown Sports. He has really been spot on in the last three or four years.

This article says there is a chance and teams have inquired, but it also states that it is not overly likely.

 

[Elephant]

I am not talking money, I am talking wins and stats. He was mediocre at best.

Mike, when he played for Tampa, he was very good...much better than mediocre. He took one of the worst teams ever to a couple of plays away from the Super Bowl in just his first year with the Bucs, winning his division 3 out of 5 times he was the QB with Tampa, and barely losing out to Detroit in a close season finale, one of the years he didn't win the division.

I only mentioned the money as the reason he left the Bucs. They wouldn't pay one of the top QB's in the league at the time, and he was considered by many as one of the best in the league at the time, because he was black. If they'd respected him, he'd have played for them for many more years. Instead...he wasted his talent with the USFL.

You can have your opinion, but if you watch the documentary on him, there are many pundits, Joe Gibbs included, who do not agree with your assessment.

 

[MikefromOH]

Mike, when he played for Tampa, he was very good...much better than mediocre. He took one of the worst teams ever to a couple of plays away from the Super Bowl in just his first year with the Bucs, winning his division 3 out of 5 times he was the QB with Tampa, and barely losing out to Detroit in a close season finale, one of the years he didn't win the division.

I only mentioned the money as the reason he left the Bucs. They wouldn't pay one of the top QB's in the league at the time, and he was considered by many as one of the best in the league at the time, because he was black. If they'd respected him, he'd have played for them for many more years. Instead...he wasted his talent with the USFL.

You can have your opinion, but if you watch the documentary on him, there are many pundits, Joe Gibbs included, who do not agree with your assessment.

Brian, I dont think he was. He had a decent year of 3500 yards, but that was just one year.

He had one decent season with the Redskins and then ended up folding up shop and leaving not long after because he just wasn't that good.

I do have my opinion. And you have yours. It doesn't make you right any more than it makes me right.

 

[Boone]

I have seen your posts on Doug Williams before Mike and honestly it has always seemed like you don't like him. The last time it was 'What does he do and why does he get all the fan worship?'. Of course you have the right to your opinion - but I'd like to know what you are basing it on?

Williams had arguably the greatest passing performance in Super Bowl history and won one for us that we well might have lost short his epic role. That alone earns him a spot as Redskins royalty. As for the 'he wasn't that good'... he took over for Schroeder in 1987 and was a huge part of the Redskins 4 game playoff run that season culminating with the Super Bowl. Of the 4 total seasons he played for us, in 3 of them (including the Super Bowl season) he averaged only 3 games per season. In other words, he barely played. Some of those performances were great and some weren't so great. My point is, it's a pretty small sample size in DC. Only in 1988 after his incredible SB performance did he play significant games (10 starts). He took a career beating in Tampa and his knees and hips were shot. They almost took him out of the Super Bowl because he was having major knee issues.

I liken Williams to Mark Brunell in some ways. Not that Brunell ever had that kind of glory (although the MNF miracle win against Dallas is up there for me). But Brunell was a very talented QB whose first 10 years were pretty electric and who was on the downside of his career by the time he became a Redskin. But in their prime, both QBs were better than okay or 'pretty good'. One thing that doesn't get mentioned about either guy - and that's their leadership skills. Both Williams and Brunell were the type of on-the-field leaders who, when they took the field, guys immediately started playing better for. There wasn't ever a question about who was in charge of their huddles. I think that is why Gibbs really liked both guys. I don't know but I am guessing your take on Williams may colored by mostly seeing him (or maybe ONLY seeing him) in his last few seasons.

Just my opinion though.

 

[MikefromOH]

I am basing it on stats and his glorified super bowl win that could have been won by anyone in that situation. Stan probably could have done the same thing if Doug never came back in. Your stats just help prove my point; he didn't do all that much to get the fan worship he gets.

Brunell doesnt get any love from me, either. I am not anti-Doug because of any reason but his stats and play were mediocre at best. My dislike for him NOW is because I can't figure out how he even got to the position he has considering his resume doesn't show he deserved it.

You and Brian both bring up Gibbs liking him. Let me ask you this: Can you name anyone that Joe Gibbs has ever spoken poorly of? The nicest man in the history of men who even smiles when talking about all the pain that has happened in his family; has he ever spoken ill of anyone?

 

[Elephant]

You and Brian both bring up Gibbs liking him. Let me ask you this: Can you name anyone that Joe Gibbs has ever spoken poorly of? The nicest man in the history of men who even smiles when talking about all the pain that has happened in his family; has he ever spoken ill of anyone?

It wasn't just Gibbs, Mike. Coming out of college he was the first QB taken in that draft, in round 1. In his 1st 5 seasons in the NFL he took the worst team in the history of the NFL to an NFC Championship and the playoffs in 3 of those 5 years, barely missing in one season when there were less teams in the playoffs.

You mentioned stats, but ignore the fact that no one was throwing for that kind of yardage back then...you cannot compare his stats from the late 70's to today's standards. It's a much different game.

As for opinions, I don't anyone but you who thinks Doug Williams was over rated. He may not be Hall of Fame material, but "mediocre at best" is not a description I have heard from anyone but you. There is a large body of pundits, from all over the spectrum, who clearly state Doug Williams was a damned good QB for the Buccaneers, and for one post-season in Washington was great. Never better than mediocre? Sorry man...mediocre QB's don't accomplish what Doug Williams did in his career.

I'm just gonna leave it there, because you won't ever change your mind on this, so I won't keep trying.

 

[MikefromOH]

Well, Brian, you quoted him and stated him. He had 16K yards in his entire career. If that impresses you, cool. It doesn't me.

I am perfectly OK with being one of the only people to step in and state it. He was mediocre at best.

He didnt start an entire season with us at all. We should make a movie about Mark Rypien then if we are going to do something for mediocre QBs who had one great season and then disappeared.

 

[Elephant]

Well, Brian, you quoted him and stated him. He had 16K yards in his entire career. If that impresses you, cool. It doesn't me.

I am perfectly OK with being one of the only people to step in and state it. He was mediocre at best.

He didnt start an entire season with us at all. We should make a movie about Mark Rypien then if we are going to do something for mediocre QBs who had one great season and then disappeared.

 

[Boone]

You and Brian both bring up Gibbs liking him. Let me ask you this: Can you name anyone that Joe Gibbs has ever spoken poorly of? The nicest man in the history of men who even smiles when talking about all the pain that has happened in his family; has he ever spoken ill of anyone?

Perhaps I should've used the word 'trusted'. Gibbs didn't trust Patrick Ramsey, nor should he have. At the first opportunity, he put the vet he DID trust in there. Same thing with Williams. You are free to diminish both guys... I just find the argument weird, especially for you who normally is ready to vehemently defend Redskins players you like.

And the part about 'anyone' being able to step in and do what Williams did in that Super Bowl? That is a pretty outlandish statement Mike. He set a Super Bowl record for God's sake.

Not worth arguing about though.

 

[MikefromOH]

Trust, OK. I can agree with that. Gibbs did like vets though which is why he went with Brunell so long.

Timmy Smith set a record that game, too. Outside of that one long bomb in the 1st quarter by Elway, we dominated them and it was never close.

He is the only player that comes to my mind that is admired and put on this pedestal so high yet did so little. Can you imagine if we did this for Ernest Byner? Pretty much the same story. Best years on a different team...comes here and gets a ring on an amazing team...disappears soon after.

 

[SilentThreat]

I think the overall point here to keep in perspective, is that Doug Williams is not, and will never be viewed as, one of the greatest of all time. Neither will Rypien. That's what made Gibbs so special. He knew what his guy could do, and he used that to the best of their abilities. Rypien was really good at a deep ball, and we had the team in 91 for all of that to come together. That TEAM is arguably the best team to ever win a SB, and Rypien will NEVER be considered as a top 10 QB with a ring.

Like Mike, I've never viewed Williams as elite, or even much higher than Rypien when referencing the type of QB he was. He will go down as a Redskins legend because of 1 quarter in the biggest stage there is. It's something I will always be proud of... but he was never viewed as the top QB in the league... he wasn't even the clear cut starter on the team that won the SB. This is not taking anything away from his accomplishment, but understanding what that accomplishment is... was a good QB who had the greatest single quarter as a QB in the Superbowl. He's above Trent Dilfer as a SB winner, but he's clearly not on the same level of Brady, Brees, Mahomes, Young, Montana, Manning (Peyton), Bradshaw, Rodgers, Aikman (bleh), Simms (also bleh)....

I wouldn't even put him above Elway, who he beat in that game, or Kurt Warner.


I'm not hating on the guy, just trying to be realistic about who he was as a QB. He will ALWAYS be a major piece of my fandom for my favorite team in the world... but he's Howie Kendrick. He had one of the biggest moments in the history of my favorite team.... but he's never going to be, nor should he, considered one of the best in the league... heck, he's not even the best on player on the team.

 

[Boone]

You guys are doing the 'straw man' thing here Not a single person here has described Williams as a greatest of all time QB or anything close to that. But he's also not 'just a guy'. He took a couple of terrible TB teams and made them competitive. That doesn't make him a great QB, and I haven't seen anyone claim that. Rypien was a much better QB as he was a much more accurate passer throughout his career and threw fewer interceptions (although he did have to overcome his propensity to fumble the ball).

Williams is rightfully respected for obvious reasons. He almost single-handedly gave Tampa Bay their first significant success as a franchise, he was one of a handful of early African American QBs (along with Warren Moon) who showed you could win with them under center, and that they could be every bit the QB and leader as their white counterparts, and he had 'the game'. And Mike - I don't think you've ever been more wrong about anything than when you imply that Denver wasn't going to win that game regardless of who the QB was. The Redskins were hapless before Williams went on his 2nd quarter tear. Denver scored quickly on a long TD pass and forced a 3 and out. They drove it down to the 6 yard line before the Redskins stopped them and had to settle for a field goal. They forced another Redskins punt. And they would have scored a 3rd time in the first quarter as they were deep in Redskins territory before a great 18 yard sack by Alvin Walton.

Then Williams put up 35 points on them in that miraculous 2nd quarter. Of course he didn't do it alone. But that quarter effectively ended the game. Absolutely the greatest quarter of QB play ever imho. We have no idea what transpires if he doesn't crush the Broncos spirit in that 2nd quarter.