Potentially... potent... Offense?

[Primus Porcus]

So we've now seen 3 weeks of this team and it APPEARS we've seen some things about this offense that we haven't seen here in a long time.

Now we already have multiple conversations about Wentz in multiple other threads, so I think for the sake of conversation I would like to avoid this becoming about him, instead I thought it be good to look at the offense as a whole, and if we're actually seeing the talent capable of being... dare I say.... explosive?

This tweet fired up something I had been 'thinking' lightly about, but it's enticed me to dig a little deeper.



So.... through arguably 6 quarters of effective game play... our offense has been as explosive, or more, than the teams believed to be the upper echelon of the league. For the last however many years, we've lacked the big play. The 'chunk yard' type. The type you see a team down by 20 execute so quickly, the game changes in a heartbeat.... or the play a team up by 9 can execute to put a team away.

We all have our own opinions on why this team isn't even MORE prolific, and they range from what I mentioned above, to Scott Turner, the O-line, and the defense as a whole... but I think we can realistically say... 3 games into the season... this offensive roster has the ability to be REALLY freakin good.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I think that is why this is one of the more frustrating seasons we've had in a long time as well. Last week's game should have featured more running, but this isn't hindsight. The Eagles D had a poor run defense, they had a strong pass defense, and we already had success running. It was a simple failure of playcalling. There are a LOT of quotes circulating this week that look like this:

"We ran the ball pretty good, we just have to stick with it," Washington tackle Charles Leno Jr. said after the loss to the Eagles. "But it's also not my job; I'm not the one calling plays. We've just got to be more efficient."

It is very telling when we see these quotes, and they are definitely showing up more often this week; understandably. I remain confident (sadly) that Scott Turner will not "figure it out" in any real way to get a Super Bowl. The reason lies in the four game win streak last year. Here is another excerpt from an article (actually the same one):

Last season, Washington was 2-6 at the bye week. During that time, the coaching staff decided to rededicate itself to the run game. Some of it was situational, as previous deficits forced more passes, but in the first eight games they averaged 25.6 runs and 118.1 rushing yards per game. In the next four, all wins, they averaged 37 and 137, respectively.

They don't mention what happened AFTER those four. Well, we abandoned the commitment to run, returned to the early season decision-making style and playcalling, and lost. That is the zebra that Scott Turner is, and no, he does not change his stripes.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I think that is why this is one of the more frustrating seasons we've had in a long time as well. Last week's game should have featured more running, but this isn't hindsight. The Eagles D had a poor run defense, they had a strong pass defense, and we already had success running. It was a simple failure of playcalling. There are a LOT of quotes circulating this week that look like this:

It is very telling when we see these quotes, and they are definitely showing up more often this week; understandably. I remain confident (sadly) that Scott Turner will not "figure it out" in any real way to get a Super Bowl. The reason lies in the four game win streak last year. Here is another excerpt from an article (actually the same one):

They don't mention what happened AFTER those four. Well, we abandoned the commitment to run, returned to the early season decision-making style and playcalling, and lost. That is the zebra that Scott Turner is, and no, he does not change his stripes.

It's the argument I've come back to on Turner. Flashes of brilliance followed by streaks of "i can't get out of my own way."

The offense is there... you can see it. It's like when you see the kid in class who runs a 'D' average put it all together on a project or assignment. You can see that it's there... we're just limited in how often it comes out.

I didn't mean to make this thread to just make another about 'who is at fault,' but more to be somewhat positive about the talent we do have. Explosive plays are out there... I think we can all agree on that... A LOT more than we've seen in years past.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

It's the argument I've come back to on Turner. Flashes of brilliance followed by streaks of "i can't get out of my own way."

The offense is there... you can see it. It's like when you see the kid in class who runs a 'D' average put it all together on a project or assignment. You can see that it's there... we're just limited in how often it comes out.

I didn't mean to make this thread to just make another about 'who is at fault,' but more to be somewhat positive about the talent we do have. Explosive plays are out there... I think we can all agree on that... A LOT more than we've seen in years past.

Let's do that then, sorry to derail it.

It's definitely true that the talent is there. I think Carson's arm strength has shown out too. If this WR corps can stay healthy, they look like they are pretty close to "as-advertised" which for those of us who remember the 2008 debacle WR draft, that is a true breath of fresh air! In skill positions, the offense looks more exciting than any we've seen potentially since RG3's first year when he and Albert formed such a prolific attack.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Let's do that then, sorry to derail it.

It's definitely true that the talent is there. I think Carson's arm strength has shown out too. If this WR corps can stay healthy, they look like they are pretty close to "as-advertised" which for those of us who remember the 2008 debacle WR draft, that is a true breath of fresh air! In skill positions, the offense looks more exciting than any we've seen potentially since RG3's first year when he and Albert formed such a prolific attack.

you didnt, i was more being critical of myself lol

I had about a 3 paragraph response blasting Turner and decided against it haha.

 

[burgold]

I think one of the things about Turner is he enjoys being clever too much. Simple examples are the overuse of shotgun formations in goal line situations and the overuse of Samuel as a multitool. Maybe he's doing these because he doesn't trust his line, but trick plays only work when they trick people. When they are expected they are easily defeated.

The other thing is, I think, the coaches decided they are terrified to use Antonio Gibson as a running back. So, the run game is almost entirely absent even when it's being effective like it was against the Eagles. The fix is easy though. Run the ball more, enough to keep defenses honest at least, and if you don't trust Gibson to do it then plug Williams in. Right now, the defensive pass rush never has to even consider stopping the run on their way to the QB every down.

 

[Lovin Cousins]

but trick plays only work when they trick people. When they are expected they are easily defeated.

That's a good point, that I hope he realizes.
After over-use of a trick play, it's no longer a trick play.
If you're going to run frequent trick plays, at least do a variety.
The 49ers have been successful with their version of their "Samuel Trick"
How do they do it with Deebo ?

 

[Boone]

It is impossible to have a conversation about the potential of the offense and exclude Wentz from it . The reason I say that is, regardless of whether one thinks Turner is a genius or clueless, if the QB cannot efficient execute plays as called, potential will remain just that. The WR, RB, and TEs are a high caliber bunch. But if the QB consistently can’t get the ball to them accurately, it doesn’t much matter.

It’s a problem that Turner seems to undervalue the run. It’s a bigger problem when the QB can’t complete 5 yd passes to wide open receivers.

 

[burgold]

It is impossible to have a conversation about the potential of the offense and exclude Wentz from it . The reason I say that is, regardless of whether one thinks Turner is a genius or clueless, if the QB cannot efficient execute plays as called, potential will remain just that. The WR, RB, and TEs are a high caliber bunch. But if the QB consistently can’t get the ball to them accurately, it doesn’t much matter.

It’s a problem that Turner seems to undervalue the run. It’s a bigger problem when the QB can’t complete 5 yd passes to wide open receivers.

I think you can say that several different ways.

You can't evaluate Turner if Wentz doesn't execute, but you can't evaluate Wentz if the o line doesn't execute, but you can't evaluate the o line if Wentz and the oline don't execute

 

[Lovin Cousins]

I think you can say that several different ways.

You can't evaluate Turner if Wentz doesn't execute, but you can't evaluate Wentz if the o line doesn't execute, but you can't evaluate the o line if Wentz and the oline don't execute

I disagree with the notion that everything must be working smoothly around a player, to properly evaluate him.
Scouts, GM's, etc are constantly evaluating college players, or even NFL players from other teams, as prospects, who are in a impotent environment.
They make draft choices, FA choices, and trade choices based on that.
Even in a bad environment, their football IQ allows them to see past that, and see what the player individually is doing in those circumstances.
It's not the ideal environment to evaluate, but you can still extract a lot of valuable information about a players' ability, even if he is on a unit that doesn't give him much support. It's almost like an innate skill, to filter out all the irrelevant matters, and zone in on aspects of the player.
Matter of fact, when a player is under duress, in many ways that's the best time to evaluate how he responds to those situations.
Because those situations will come up a lot for him in the NFL.

So the conclusion is, Wentz can still be evaluated to a large degree, despite any playcalling made for him.

 

[Boone]

It’s not the same argument though. The most basic requirement of any QB is to hit open receivers with easy completions. If you can’t do that consistently it doesn’t matter what talent you have or how good or bad the play call was. An appropriate analogy is placekicker who shanks kicks frequently. It doesn’t require anything else other than to do your only job in that scenario.

Not to hijack the thread, don’t want to do that. I just wanted to make the point you cannot really critique any offense and exclude the QB. He is a massively impactful factor.

 

[MikefromOH]

How much of these points/yards/etc is during garbage time?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I love the top 3 WR this team has. If this offense can get humming, who are you covering? You figure out how to cover all 3, then you get to deal with Logan Thomas. The run game is what is missing. I feel like they think Robinson will just make it all better. Maybe he does, but they have shown little in the way of wanting to control the ball through running it. But whether they run or pass and score we want a lot more. (Sorry, once I started that sentence, I couldn’t resist.) I think they need ball control whether it’s on the ground or through the air. The big plays are great, but the best offenses are the ones that are balanced. They can get 5 yds on 1st down. Get 8 on second. They can pick up the 3rd and 6. That’s what I want to see consistently. Then the big shots down field will be there. All the pieces are there, they just need to execute.

 

[Boone]

OL is the great un-equalizer though. Your QBs strong arm and potent weapons available are totally neutralized if you can't protect him. That's not putting all of the blame on the OL - but they were horrible on Sunday and if they don't fix it we'll get obliterated by that Dallas pass rush.

 

[burgold]

OL is the great un-equalizer though. Your QBs strong arm and potent weapons available are totally neutralized if you can't protect him. That's not putting all of the blame on the OL - but they were horrible on Sunday and if they don't fix it we'll get obliterated by that Dallas pass rush.

Right now, I expect Dallas' pass rush to have its way. They're really good at pressuring and it feels like our pass pro ceiling is below average. They need to be scheming lots of quick hitters, misdirection, etc. Better yet, we need snipers with tranquilizer darts. Have a really ugly feeling about what we're about to see.