• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

Orakpo coasting ?

Loss Vegas

Miles Monroe

The Owner's Favorite
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
5,754
Reaction score
150
Points
143
Location
Cape Coral Fl



From the morning clips:

Despite making the Pro Bowl in each of his first two seasons, Redskins outside linebacker Brian Orakpo admits that he was coasting a bit off of natural talent. In the last year, Orakpo says he has become much more a student of the game.
Not real pleased with this. Even if he has a career year, and gets long term contract, who's to say he won't start to coast again... I trust him as far as I can throw him.

Morning Clips
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
Well...sounds like he realized his natural talent was only going to take him so far, and he has to step his film-room game up. Good thing his natural talent level is high! I'd be interested in signing him long term, but not breaking the bank...
 

Jugband McGillicuddy

The Pro Bowler
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
3,198
Reaction score
0
Points
66
Location
Cumberland, MD

Army Marshall

I've taken some heat the last couple years for calling him on this. The standard response was, "Well, he always gets doubled." And sometimes he does. But he doesn't have a great move set. With the ability he has, if he had Kerrigan's moves, he'd be a perennial all-pro.
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
I've taken some heat the last couple years for calling him on this. The standard response was, "Well, he always gets doubled." And sometimes he does. But he doesn't have a great move set. With the ability he has, if he had Kerrigan's moves, he'd be a perennial all-pro.
Kerrigan has moves? Must have missed him using them last season. Oh right, because he was getting consistently shut down because Orakpo wasn't on the other side, generating pressure!

Kerrigan is a motor guy, he doesn't have a ton of moves either. While I agree that Rak could use some new techniques, he does get doubled often.
 

tshile

Guest
It's nice to see that those of us that were being critical of him have some support to back it up.

As for his future - this sort of thing seems to be common among athletes at the pro level. I certainly give him props for recognizing it and (hopefully) doing something about it.

It does nothing to change my mind about resigning him. He's going to demand top dollar and someone is going to be willing to give it to him. If he doesn't have a significantly improved year (not statistically, impact wise) then I can't justify a big contract for him.

First step is learning how to stop the runs o teams don't feel comfortable running straight at him. Second step is figuring out how to get past the linesmen, you know, the whole 'one move' issue.
 

Burgundy Burner

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
24,102
Reaction score
365
Points
1,113
Location
Memphis, TN

Virginia

Rob Jackson has out-played Rak over the last couple of years. Sign RJ long term (yeah, the drug thing hurts, but he is not a junkie and will atone for his momentary lapse in judgment) and see what we can get for Rak on the open market.

My $0.02.
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
Here's a great statistical breakdown of what Orakpo brings to the table:

http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredsk...e-the-loss-of-brian-orakpo-and-adam-carriker/

Now I know it seems odd since he went to the Pro Bowl his first two seasons, but 2011 was Brian Orakpo's best year. He had a combined 59 sacks, hits and pressures last season, which was not only a career high, but good enough for 10th in the league among all 3-4 rush linebackers and 4-3 defensive ends. While 10th is obviously very good, keep in mind that just two of the guys ahead of him (Trent Cole and Aldon Smith) had fewer pass rush snaps. Due to the fact that the Washington Redskins were down late in most games, teams stopped throwing against them a number of times in the 4th quarter. In addition in the scheme that Orakpo is in he has more coverage responsibilities than most rush linebackers (and of course 4-3 defensive ends). Orakpo rushed the quarterback just 74% of the time (among passing snaps) last year, well below the 85%+ that guys like DeMarcus Ware, Tamba Hali, and Cameron Wake rushed the quarterback. Take for instance DeMarcus Ware who had 20 sacks last season. In 450 rushes, he combined for 71 pressures/hits/sacks, or one every 6.33 pass rushes. Brian Orakpo had 59 combined pressures/hits/sacks in 383 pass rushes, which breaks down to one in every 6.49 snaps.

Another interesting stat comparison is looking at Brian Orakpo's numbers versus two defensive ends, Terrell Suggs and Jason Pierre-Paul, who are widely considered among the best in the league. Take Suggs for instance, who had 14 sacks last season. He obviously had a far better year than Orakpo right? Well Suggs had 100 additional pass rushes (483) to Orakpo, but finished with two fewer (57) combined hits/pressures/sacks. Now even if you normalized the snap count and gave Orakpo 483 rushes he would have only ended up with roughly 12.5 sacks, but his combined total would jump from 59 to 74 (which would have been good for 3rd best in the league among ends and rush linebackers). Sure Suggs ends up with more sacks, but is an extra sack and a half worth all the extra pressures and hits Orakpo would have brought to the table?

Believe it or not the split between Jason Pierre-Paul and Orakpo is even worse. Pierre-Paul may have had 16 sacks, but he only had 56 combined pressures, in 558 pass rush snaps (175 more than Orakpo). Given the same snap count Orakpo would have been on pace for 14.5 sacks and 86 combined pressures, a full 30 more than what Pierre-Paul produced. Now of course guys like Pierre-Paul and Suggs were better at getting sacks, which is a valuable commodity, but it seems clear that Orakpo was perhaps a bit more of an impact player than many give him credit for, making him a major void that will need to be filled on the Redskins defense.
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
Rob Jackson has out-played Rak over the last couple of years. Sign RJ long term (yeah, the drug thing hurts, but he is not a junkie and will atone for his momentary lapse in judgment) and see what we can get for Rak on the open market.

My $0.02.
This is just plain false. RJax had some big plays for us, but also disappeared for long stretches.
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
It's nice to see that those of us that were being critical of him have some support to back it up.
Some - not much. He was very good in 2011, as the stats above show. He could have been a lot better if not for being a two-trick pony, or studying more film. But he was still very good, the second-best defender on the team.

First step is learning how to stop the runs o teams don't feel comfortable running straight at him. Second step is figuring out how to get past the linesmen, you know, the whole 'one move' issue.
Stopping the run is not his strong suit (pass-rusher is), but he's not below average or a liability or anything. If we had a real NT, I think his run-defending would become a whole lot better.
 

tshile

Guest
Some - not much. He was very good in 2011, as the stats above show. He could have been a lot better if not for being a two-trick pony, or studying more film. But he was still very good, the second-best defender on the team.



Stopping the run is not his strong suit (pass-rusher is), but he's not below average or a liability or anything. If we had a real NT, I think his run-defending would become a whole lot better.
You and I have butted heads on this topic a few times. I know where you stand, you know where I stand. For me it's not about wanting him on the team or not, it's about paying top dollar for him. If he plays significantly better - fine. If he decides to accept a lesser contract - fine. Anything else and I'd just assume trade him before the deadline, otherwise let him go under perform somewhere else :)

But that's just my opinion on it. I'm not the one making the decisions, and this decision isn't going to change my opinions of Shanahan and Allen at this point.
 

Burgundy Burner

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
24,102
Reaction score
365
Points
1,113
Location
Memphis, TN

Virginia

I appreciate that research. I wish there was a way to break it down between the better teams and garbage teams. I'm hoping that his presence will take some of the pressure off Kerrigan. Kerrigan is a talented workhorse, but he seemed winded toward the end of some games and that is understandable.

If he lives up to his own hype for this season, I will eat the crow. If not, then it will be back to business as usual. I wonder if he put on about twenty pounds of muscle and moved to the line would help - help him and the team.
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
You and I have butted heads on this topic a few times. I know where you stand, you know where I stand. For me it's not about wanting him on the team or not, it's about paying top dollar for him. If he plays significantly better - fine. If he decides to accept a lesser contract - fine. Anything else and I'd just assume trade him before the deadline, otherwise let him go under perform somewhere else :)

But that's just my opinion on it. I'm not the one making the decisions, and this decision isn't going to change my opinions of Shanahan and Allen at this point.
I agree...I'm not sure I want to pay him top-dollar either (unless he goes bananas this year). He will command top-dollar on the FA market. Although, next year we'll have a buttload of cap room, so maybe they will re-sign him no matter the cost? I don't know.
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
I appreciate that research. I wish there was a way to break it down between the better teams and garbage teams. I'm hoping that his presence will take some of the pressure off Kerrigan. Kerrigan is a talented workhorse, but he seemed winded toward the end of some games and that is understandable.

If he lives up to his own hype for this season, I will eat the crow. If not, then it will be back to business as usual. I wonder if he put on about twenty pounds of muscle and moved to the line would help - help him and the team.
I love Kerrigan, I really do. I own his jersey, and to me, he is the epitome of what a professional football player should be. He gives 1000% on every down, even in the 4th quarter, down by several TDs. All that being said, in my opinion he is not a franchise defender - a guy you can stick on a terrible team and makes everyone around him better. I believe Rak to be that guy. Just my opinion though - if he sucks it up this year, I'll be the one eating the crow.
 

tshile

Guest
I agree...I'm not sure I want to pay him top-dollar either (unless he goes bananas this year). He will command top-dollar on the FA market. Although, next year we'll have a buttload of cap room, so maybe they will re-sign him no matter the cost? I don't know.
Having Griffin may make it easier to negotiate with Orakpo. If the team is a regular playoff team with potential.

In general I'd just assume the team not make bad contracts (in my opinion) regardless of cap room.
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,949
Reaction score
530
Points
1,143

Florida State

For once, I would love to see this team trade a player with value (or perceived value) prior to signing him to a multi-million dollar deal. Brian Orakpo is a quality guy...I say trade him as soon as a team becomes desperate enough for a 4-3 DE! He is out of his element on this team, R-Jax can cover so much better than he can! We need our rush to come from the middle of the DL. If we are going to pay top dollar for anyone, it should be someone to replace Adam Carriker or a true NT (unfortunately, there are only about 4 of them in the league).
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Private conversations
Help Users
As we enjoy today's conversations, let's remember our dear friend 'Docsandy', Sandy Zier-Teitler, who would dearly love to be here with us today! We love and miss you Sandy ❤
    Top