Offensive Weapons... lets dig deeper

[Primus Porcus]

So Win4us has inspired me a little bit to do some more digging into our offensive weapons and see if in fact they're as limited as we believe, or if other factors are limiting them.

I found another situation where our 'other guys' created a play, but left a bigger play on the table. Take a look at this with me, i'll come back and share things on here as I find them, and let me know if you all are seeing the same thing.



This play resulted in a pretty good gain, but there was A LOT more out there.

Deandre Carter will come across the formation, it will be a play action fake to GIbson

McLaurin (bottom) runs an 'in' type route
Humphries (top) runs a corner route
Bates (top of LOS in 3 point stance) engages a block, releases and leaks into the flat and is WIDE OPEN, ultimately making the catch

Heinicke's first look is WIDE OPEN and he hits it. The top corner (looks like they're playing Cover 3) is sinking back but I think Humphries MAY have been able to get over the top of him and make an even bigger play. McLaurin is also WIDE OPEN in the middle of the field.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I'm going to keep digging into this over the next few games that i look at and see if it's obvious that the reads go from Short to Long. If that's the case, it would explain why there have been plays left out there (and I've heard from beat guys that they SEE separation). Again it comes back to limiting Heinicke's pre-snap reads and if he's been instructed to RUN THE PLAY AS DESIGNED as far as the progressions go... i'm speculating with that.

 

[Boone]

Only issue I have with this is, you're looking at a TV camera view of the entire field, not what the QB can see (or not see). Of course, that's all we have access to! I think we can all agree, if we had a QB who could make every throw, on time, accurately, with velocity, our talent might look significantly better. I think the flip side of that argument is that truly talented players shine regardless of surrounding cast. Who shines on this team's offense other than Gibson, McLaurin, and (when available) Logan Thomas? Sometimes, it's about chemistry as well. Thomas is a great example of that as the guy was essentially a nobody at Arizona, Buffalo, and Detroit before coming here and looking awesome (with shitty QBing btw).

I know that's not quite in line with what you are talking about - just some driveby comments so forgive me for that!

 

[Primus Porcus]

Only issue I have with this is, you're looking at a TV camera view of the entire field, not what the QB can see (or not see). Of course, that's all we have access to! I think we can all agree, if we had a QB who could make every throw, on time, accurately, with velocity, our talent might look significantly better. I think the flip side of that argument is that truly talented players shine regardless of surrounding cast. Who shines on this team's offense other than Gibson, McLaurin, and (when available) Logan Thomas? Sometimes, it's about chemistry as well. Thomas is a great example of that as the guy was essentially a nobody at Arizona, Buffalo, and Detroit before coming here and looking awesome (with shitty QBing btw).

this is actually the 'all 22' camera which has every player on the field in frame at all times.

On that play you can see Heinickes head never leaves Bates because he's so open. It's the first read, it's open, he took it... it's not on Heinicke, I think it's on scheme. I'm about to share another example about a missed opportunity that has nothing to do with Heinicke... it's the route combination.

 

[Boone]

No - I get that ST - but it's not the QB field level view which we can never get. What can Heinicke see - that's my point. It's fine to use terms like 'wide open', but it's very deceptive in terms of what the QB actually experiences. Just sayin'... And I know you're not being a harsh critic of Heinicke (who sometimes deserves harsh criticism), I'm only pointing out how difficult assessing it all is.

 

[Primus Porcus]

So pre-snap it's a pretty in tight formation... Humphries goes in motion, the LB follows so it's man to man coverage.

Heinicke gets to his drop back and i'm actually surprised Heinicke doesn't throw it to Humphries here. He's looking right at him , there's room, but he doesn't pull the trigger. The other thing to notice is Bates at the bottom. He's got an EASY touchdown IF this is a fly route. The safety over the top bit and was out of position.

Here is a couple steps later.. Heinicke see's Bates but doesn't throw the ball (and for good reason).

Here's the good reason.. The route tree called for an 'in' route. Heinicke identifies it and takes off running.

He ultimately gets down to the 35 yard line.

 

[Primus Porcus]

No - I get that ST - but it's not the QB field level view which we can never get. What can Heinicke see - that's my point. It's fine to use terms like 'wide open', but it's very deceptive in terms of what the QB actually experiences. Just sayin'... And I know you're not being a harsh critic of Heinicke (who sometimes deserves harsh criticism), I'm only pointing out how difficult assessing it all is.

absolutely. This whole exercise is to see how the 'weapons' create separation. Not the result of the play. To Win4us point I think the system slows the offense at times because guys ARE open but the system is missing them, not necessarily Heinicke.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Here is one that arm strength POSSIBLY limited this play. We want to watch the guy I circled as this develops.

The Defender is flat footed again. I went back and looked at all angles and I'm PRETTY SURE it's Dyami Brown... not 100%. The safety has no concern for the deep ball over his head

The WR runs RIGHT by this CB who is standing there looking at him. The FS hasnt moved to cover anything over his head

Heinicke still has the ball here. The WR has BLOWN past the DB and the Safety that was on the logo came DOWN to cover the curl (circled him in BLUE).

This is a throw Heinicke cannot make IMHO. Elite arms can. This ball could / should have come out when the WR was at about the 35 with enough air on it to let him run it down.

Again, someone NOT named Terry McLaurin creating separation. It's almost not fair to look at these plays because we kno Heinicke can't make that throw, but it's all out there. That said, if there's a stronger armed QB in there, the FS possibly plays this ball differently.

I will also say that Taylor made a good play on this rolling right and hitting Terry on a sideline route for a first down, so it's not like it was a failed play... just an observation.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Here's Dyami flashing again... I'm starting to see a trend with this kid

I circled the time so i can do an overhead shot at the same time to see that the Safety is WAY off and Dyami is open.. Heinicke's read is taking him to the left.. by the time he gets back across to Dyami he's covered.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Win4us

Hows this for separation

 

[Win4us]

That’s ridiculous openness…probably an incomplete too knowing this team.

It’s like who do you smack, Heineken or Turner? I’ve got a feeling you’ll find more than plenty of plays showing the #2’s & 3’s wide TF open, and the play still failed.

 

[Primus Porcus]

That’s ridiculous openness…probably an incomplete too knowing this team.

It’s like who do you smack, Heineken or Turner? I’ve got a feeling you’ll find more than plenty of plays showing the #2’s & 3’s wide TF open, and the play still failed.

Heinicke scrambled and threw to Logan Thomas, it was negated by a penalty

 

[Win4us]

I’m sure Turner/RR are looking for a running threat QB to keep the defenses guessing. But, seeing the downfield possibilities thru these pics I’m thinking a big arm would work best. Carson Strong has a cannon and would be ideal, Howell has a pretty good arm too.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I’m sure Turner/RR are looking for a running threat QB to keep the defenses guessing. But, seeing the downfield possibilities thru these pics I’m thinking a big arm would work best. Carson Strong has a cannon and would be ideal, Howell has a pretty good arm too.

I've seen a lot more from Dyami Brown than I expected... His speed is apparent. I agree I think a big arm is a major piece to this puzzle.

Malik Willis has a very live arm, but I still wonder about him... I'm intrigued, but i'm not sold.. yet. He's going to vault up the draft boards after the combine because his physical abilities are going to be exciting...

 

[Chris]

Willis is the only one I see in this draft class that excites me because he is the only one that I see that has the potential to be special. He could also be utilized in a wildcat scheme until ready. The rest of the top 5-6 strike me as jags. The question on Willis is just how far behind is he due to the competition he faced. His upside is tremendous though.

From what I saw at the Senior Bowl, Desmond Ridder was the best of the bunch in comparison to the rest. I only wish that Matt Coral had been able to participate.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Not one I liked to see here.... Terry Mclaurin is alone at the top of the screen and Taylor forced this to the middle of no mans land, almost got intercepted

 

[Primus Porcus]

Willis is the only one I see in this draft class that excites me because he is the only one that I see that has the potential to be special. He could also be utilized in a wildcat scheme until ready. The rest of the top 5-6 strike me as jags. The question on Willis is just how far behind is he due to the competition he faced. His upside is tremendous though.

From what I saw at the Senior Bowl, Desmond Ridder was the best of the bunch in comparison to the rest. I only wish that Matt Coral had been able to participate.

I threw it out there the other day, dont be surprised if we look back in 2 or 3 years and Ridder is the consensus 'best' QB to come out of this draft.

 

[Boone]

The concern with Dyami isn’t his speed which is outstanding. It’s his hands - which aren’t. Caught less than 50% in 2021. QB plays a role in that too but other targets didn’t struggle like he did.

 

[Primus Porcus]

The concern with Dyami isn’t his speed which is outstanding. It’s his hands - which aren’t. Caught less than 50% in 2021. QB plays a role in that too but other targets didn’t struggle like he did.

very true, there was one play on a crossing pattern that he might still be running had he caught that he just flat out swatted to the ground.

 

[Boone]

The speed alone makes him worth giving an extended chance though 😳