OF: Hall to the Redskins

[Om]

August 27, 2010

With Russ Grimm's recent induction into the Hall of Fame, the number of Washington Redskins in the Hall from the Joe Gibbs glory years rose to five—Gibbs, John Riggins, Darrell Green, Art Monk and now Grimm.

It has long been an article of faith among Redskins fans that the Hall was somehow biased against those teams; that they were under-represented. Theories as to why include that the blue-collar Redskins weren’t “flashy” enough, and that the individual players weren't of self-promoting type who get their names into the news by any means necessary.

Redskins fans have long believed—I can say this because I count myself among them—that the Glory Years Redskins teams have been under-represented, at least as compared to the teams one automatically thinks of when discussing the Hall of Fame.

I thought I might put the theory to the test...

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[Neophyte]

Nicely done, Om. I have wondered about some of these things and meant to do something similar. I can take it off the "to do" list now.

Some great names on that list that I have not heard a while.

Two questions...You have Jacoby at RT. Did you treat this like the Pro Bowl where they play guys out of position rather than force a choice of the very best at a given single spot?

And no mention of Manley? I know he had some serious off field issues but he has on field numbers every bit as good as some of the DE's already enshrined today.

 

[Om]

Jake player right tackle in the latter part of his career opposite Jim Lachey. I'd take a veteran Jake at RT over just about any I can think of ... Jon Jansen had a few solid years there, but was never more than "pretty damn good" in my eyes. Even in his RT days Jake was still a monster.

I took Mann over Manley because Dexter was one-dimensional. Great pass rusher (if a little undisciplined), but just a guy against the run. Mann did it all, for a much longer time, and was a great locker room guy and on-field leader as well.

So there.

 

[Neophyte]

I had actually forgotten Jacoby played the right side. Don't ask me how but I did. Makes sense.

I won't quibble about your choices for the team and leaving Manley off there. I don't know anything about Brito so can't fault him. My beef with not mentioning Manley was actually from further up in the article where you mentioned several from the Gibbs teams who you thought had a chance at possible induction. I think Manley derserves at least as much consideration as Theismann. Frankly, I think Butz, Mann and Manley all deserve some consideration and are likely hurt by that very fact (the same problem I think the Hogs have too).

And I would argue that Manley did play the run well, he was just known for rushing the passer. I still remember the week Parcells said the Giants were going to run at Manley to stop his pass rush because he couldn't defend the run well and he spent the whole game stoning Giants running backs while taunting the Giants sidelines (at least I think it was the Giants).

 

[Om]

I can see including Manley on the "could be future candidates" list. His exclusion wasn't intentional or indicative of my feelings on that. Just conserving word count.

Manley had a great three-year run between 1984 and 1986 where he got 13.5, 15 and 18.5 sacks, respectively. In his other five years in DC for which the NFL kept sack stats, he averaged 8.8. NFL.com didn't keep tackle statistics until after Manley retired, so it's going to be hard to quantify how well he played the run.

I respect your recollection---mine is that Dexter tended to overrun plays in his zeal to get after the QB and Petitbon often had to protect his gap(s) by keeping a LB on his shoulder.

Truth is I hate arguing against the inclusion of this guy to the Hall. He was a dominating pass rusher for a period of great success for the team and was a key part in helping the Redskins win the 1987 SB. I just don't think his 97.5 careere sacks and 1 Pro Bowl (2 All Pro, interestingly), are going to be enough to get the voters real juiced up.

Add to that the off-field issues and I just don't see it happening.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Neophyte]

Oh, I agree. I don't see him getting in. I just get frustrated that he doesn't get more attention. His numbers are every bit as good as Howey Long's (granted, Long played LE) and by Skins stats he lead the team in total tackles more than once which blows me away. Not to mention the guy was the biggest gunner I have even seen on a punting unit. I'm also sure you are right and Dex over ran his share of plays. He was all about the sack first and foremost. No doubt.

BTW - I have spent a fair amount of time looking for any evidence of that game I remember and so far I am coming up with nada, so I might be imaging it.

I also get royally irked that Dave Butz doesn't get more, or any, attention. The guy was the definition of great DT. Required a double team every play and no one ran up the middle with him in the game. Now days we are just all about sack numbers and Butz doesn't have those because they weren't kept most of his career and even when they were, it wasn't his job to get to the QB but rather collapse the pocket so the QB couldn't get away from the DE's.

Mike, I don't know the answer to your question for sure. I am operating off the premise that he was banned from playing due to off field issues and what the Hall voters have been saying for years is that off field issues are to have no baring on the vote. *shrug* Maybe I am coming to the wrong conclusion there.

 

[Henry]

I would have JKC as my owner over Marshall, who held the team back decades due to his racist team policies.

Other than that, I like it.

 

[Om]

I would too, Henry. But as noted in the piece, where the HOF had already voted a representative in, I didn't presume to change it. GPM is already in the Hall. The Squire perhaps should be, but the voters haven't seen the wisdom yet.