No Cap in 2010 - Who Goes?

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Bulldog

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My list of contracts I would like to unload:

1. Clinton Portis - will be 29. doesn't stay in great offseason shape like Green or Monk did to see him as a player that is effective into his 30's. outspoken often but usually for the wrong reasons.

2. Andre Carter - Carter will be 31. His sacks this year have come because of the presence of the other new faces in the front seven. Orakpo and Jarmon look to be keepers at DE. If there is going to be a rebuilding process as appears necessary, might as well develop the young DEs right off the bat.

3. Antwaan Randle El - ARE will be 32. He has slowed down. He gets no separation as a WR and he has never been effective as a returner in DC. Whatever else happens in a re-evaluation of the WR position in the offseason this is one player that has 'downside' written all over him.

4. Fred Smoot - Smoot at 31 has fallen faster than a meteor. He was signed for a $7M bonus at 29 and a year and a half later has fallen from solid #3 corner and part-time starter to being the #4 corner behind Justin Tryon, who has not exactly lit the world on fire this season.

5. Todd Collins - Collins, 38, has one season left on his contract but will be of little value to the new coaching staff. He was brought here to help install Al Saunders' offense much as you would bring in Jeff Garcia to help install a WCO. But the next administration is sure to bring in a new system and with everyone learning from scratch we might as well get younger here.

Those were the picks most of you are probably nodding your heads with me over.

Now for the surprises.

6. DeAngelo Hall - I liked Hall based on the 7 games he played here last year but his performance this season has been uneven and he has reverted to his penchant for criticizing his teammates and the club in the media. He is still MeAngelo and that doesn't add up to a player you expect to see helping the Redskins to a Super Bowl down the road. I would much rather admit the mistake and resign Carlos Rogers who at 27 and who cost the team a #9 overall pick in 2005, is still the team's best cover corner.

7. Hunter Smith - Smith has great career numbers. But now we know why the Colts didn't resign him after 2008, at 31 his body is starting to break down with nagging injuries. We need to find someone younger here. Perhaps a guy that can kick off as well?

8. Mike Sellers - Sellers will be 34 years old heading into 2010. His play has slipped this year and his seeming inability to be comfortable with his blocking role on the club, constantly lobbying for an increased role, has been a distraction at times. If you look around the NFL there are capable fullbacks out there that are making much less than Sellers and they don't bring half the attitude issues. Fullback like punter is just not a position you want to invest a lot of dollars in under the cap, only to go short at RB or WR.

Players Who I Would Let Go As Free Agents:

9. Jason Campbell - he was a #1 draft choice and when he signs with another club the Redskins are going to get a decent comp pick in April for him.

10. Rocky McIntosh - ditto for McIntosh. As a former #2 pick, he will net a comp pick for the Skins in April. I like Rocky's aggressiveness this year but his knees would prevent me from offering him a long-term deal.

11. Anthony Montgomery - the Redskins were looking to deal him this season and for good reason. Montgomery is a very inconsistent player. He thinks he is a starting tackle but hasn't shown enough on the field to warrant that type of promotion. Golston has outplayed him. It's that simple. Another former Redskins draft pick, #5, that will net a comp pick.

12. Casey Rabach - Rabach will be unrestricted and none too soon for Redskins fans. At 33 and only 289, Casey has been overmatched the past couple of years in his matchups with the DTs on the Giants and Cowboys. We lose those inside matchups each year and consequently haven't been close to the Giants in a couple of years.

13. Randy Thomas - Thomas will be 33 and his injury history is almost as long as Jansen's was when he was released. Randy was one of the better guards in the NFC 3-4 years ago, but he is a shell of his former self. I think he may retire if released.

14. Mike Williams - back to the couch for Mike. Seriously, I wish him well with the businesses he owns and manages, but he is done as an NFL football player. That was clear in 2005.
 

Boone

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I don't have an issue with your first list, although I'll confess I like Carter better than most and think he's more talented than given credit for. He can still play - and generally puts out a good effort. He's also a great guy based on my personal observation of him, that counts at least a little.

I'd like to see if Hall could get back to last year's form with some respectable coaching before I gave up on him. I don't believe the flashes we saw last year were a mirage - I just think he's one of those guys who needs as much mental coaching as he does technical. I'm not sure he's getting that. The inability of the coaching staff to get him playing at the level he's clearly capable of is concerning. I'd hope they'd read him the riot act, help him get his head where it needs to be, and give him one more year. I actually think with he and Rogers, we've got a decent secondary (when they're not asked to be on the field for 3/4ths of the game).

And McIntosh (who is clearly going to be the one folks here wig out about)? I guess I'd need to know more about the severity of his knee issues. I'll confess I don't know where he stands in terms of long-term prognosis. Assuming you have more knowledge there given your position...

Bottom line, we need youth with potential, so I really wouldn't be upset with anyone going. A team this bad has no sacred cows.
 
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Neophyte

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Campbell, McIntosh and Montgomery don't qualify for FA at the end of the year as they don't have 6 years of service yet. All will be Restricted Free Agents unless the Skins outright release them, which I don't see them doing as they stand to receive picks as compensation in the 2010 draft rather than having to wait till 2011 for the official Compensatory picks they would get.

I am shocked that Griffin isn't on your list BD. You have been on that bandwagon all year (unless I have you mistaken for someone else).
 
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Jimbo

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I'm not quite ready to give up on Hall or Rocky just yet. I'd rather wait until the end of the season to see where they stand. I would, however, add Griffin to that list.

Although we need to get younger along both lines, a key veteran here or there is probably a good idea for at least another year. That's where guys like Carter, Griffin or Rabach/Thomas, strictly as backups, could really help in order to bring younger guys along. If we could find quality backups INSTEAD of those guys then all bets are off.
 

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Poor tackling aside, which everyone knew about from college onwards, I think Hall has been fine. Rocky McIntosh is playing well, as he usually does when healthy.

Here's my list of guys I'd definitely get rid of, whether they are free agents or not:

Fred Smoot
Carlos Rogers
Clinton Portis
Todd Collins
Mike Sellers
Antwaan Randle El
Casey Rabach
Chris Samuels
Randy Thomas

It looks like Jason Campbell will go, but I'm not so keen on that. Have you looked at the list of free agent QBs in 2010? It's dismal. And the history of picking QBs near the top of the first round is problematic, at best. The last thing this team needs is to waste a high pick and three more years on another Heath Shuler.
 

Chris

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Listed by age:

Todd Collins
Phillip Daniels
Renaldo Wynn
Mike Sellers
Cornelius Griffin
Casey Rabach
Fred Smoot
Antwaan Randle El
Mike Williams
Clinton Portis
Chad Rinehart

I would include Chris Samuels and Randy Thomas if they don't retire.
 
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Lanky Livingston

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I disagree with Rocky strongly - he's the type of young, playmaking LB we need to rebuild the defense. Here is who I want to axe:

Defense -
Griffin - playing well next to AH, but so is Golston
Daniels - 84 years old
Smoot - only good at safety these days, and we have younger players there
Landry - if you are empathetic and take poor angles, see ya later
Rogers - going to demand too much $$ to re-sign; I believe this is his contract year. Should have given him the money instead of DeAngelo, but too late for that.

Offense:
Portis - no explanation needed
ARE - He can't get out of DC fast enough. Makes some clutch catches, but delivers nothing else.
Thomas - oft injured
Rabach - cost us more TDs/wins/big plays than I can count
Rhinehart - bust
Moss - caught a case of the dropsies the past couple seasons
Campbell - let the new coach make this call, but if he doesn't fit the system, he's out
Sellers - as BD said, he's old, time to get younger
 

Hog Fever

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Well I think we could probably blow up nearly the whole O-line with the exception of Dockery. Not because I think he's so good but we paid a lot of money for him and we have him signed for another couple of years. Heyer might be worth holding on to as well because he's cheap (for now), but keep him over on the right side where he belongs. That leaves us trying to fins a LT, RG and Center, a tall order for one season.

I think the temptation will be to fix the O-line issue in free agency. I hope we decide to take a more balanced approach. I'd like them to draft a LT in the 1st round and a G/C somewhere in the 3rd to 4th round. I’d like the see a developmental guy taken in the late rounds as well. A younger free agent G/C would be the acquisition I’d like to see us make. That would still leave us kinda thin if anyone gets hurt but we can’t fix years of neglect in one off-season, nor should we try to. We can take large steps to correct things though, and we should. Next season we could look at a possible upgrade at RT and more depth.

Here is a link to the O-line free agents for next season:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

I don’t think it’s critical we draft a QB in the first, although that’s likely the direction the team will go. None of the guys currently projected in the 1st round do anything for me. Here are some guys I like in no particular order that might fall the the 2nd round or lower:

- Thaddeus Lewis, Duke. This guy has almost single handedly made Duke Football relevant. This guy can flat out throw the ball. He moves well and throws well on the move. This guy could be a serious sleeper.
- Jevan Snead, Ole’ Miss. This guy will likely slip to the 2nd round. He’s got the size and the arm but like a lot of guys needs some work on his decision making.

A couple of others to keep an eye on:
- Dan LeFevour, Central Michigan
- Zac Robinson, Oklahoma State
- Tim Hiller, Western Michigan

I’m sure there are others we will be taking a look at closer to draft time.
 
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Bulldog

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All depends upon WHO is doing the looking :)

Some coaches like Shanahan immediately want to go get a quarterback, while others build the rest of the team and then target a qb.
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PennSkinsfan

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Listed by age:

Todd Collins
Phillip Daniels
Renaldo Wynn
Mike Sellers
Cornelius Griffin
Casey Rabach
Fred Smoot
Antwaan Randle El
Mike Williams
Clinton Portis
Chad Rinehart

I would include Chris Samuels and Randy Thomas if they don't retire.
I like this list. I would include not resigning Carlos Rogers and when Laron Landry';s contract expires the next off-season, don't pick him up either.
 

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It is nice to think about just parting ways with all these guys potentially...but they have to be replaced too.

I can't see potentially dumping 4 out of 5 starters on the Offensive Line. We know we don't have a RT at the moment (remember the old saying about when you have two of something it means you don't have any). Samuels future is in more than just serious doubt, I think, with Thomas not far behind. I doubt any of us here think Montgomery has staked a claim to the RG position as a long term starter either.

With that said, I can't show we release Rabach. Do I consider him a starter next year? Maybe not, that depends on who we can pick up in FA and the draft as well as how the guys behind him (Montgomery and Williams) are progressing. However, even if he isn't a starter, the guy is better depth than we have right now and he can play all 3 interior positions.

BMW might make a better G than T at this point. He did not stick out to me in the game he played at there.

I don't know...I just seems to me that we are looking at filling too much for one year. At least on offense.
 

Hog Fever

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I know what you're saying and there is no way it all gets taken care of next season. Problem I see is the issue regarding the O-line is one that might be decided for us to some extent. Let's go down the line.

If Chris calls it quits then we need a real LT. One is not currently on the roster. If he comes back it might buy us one more year to address the issue but we can't count on him being healthy. When healthy he's our best lineman by a mile. Problem is he hasn't been really healthy for quite a few years. Maybe we can draft a guy and start him on the right side with the idea that he'll move to the left side when Chris calls it quits. If he walks away I think it's paramount we address this in one of the first two rounds on next years draft.

I can't see a situation where we don't keep Dockery at LG.

Rabach has been a weakness on the O-line IMO almost from day one. His contract is up next season. Even if we don't "upgrade" the position it would be wise to get younger there since he'll be 33 next season. Bring in a younger guy with equivalent talent or draft someone.

At RG we have Montgomery who would be better off being a depth guy (if at all). He would not be starting on most NFL teams. Why on earth should we settle for this? Thomas is beat all to hell and can't be counted on for 16 games even if by some miracle he returns. He'll be 34 at the start of next season anyway. Time to move on.

At RT we have Heyer, who I like, but is only adequate. I guess you could add him to the "keep" list.

So I don't see where we have a whole lot of choice but to make some major changes on the O-line. At a minimum we'll probably need a LT and a RG. My preference would be to make a clean sweep and get a Center too. Will it happen, probably not, but it would be the single best thing the team could do next year to set the table for future success.

In Hog Fever's Fantasy World Redskin Draft for 2010 this is how we would pick:

1- LT
2 - QB
3 - RB
4 - G/C
5 - LB
6 - LB
7 - G/C/T
 

The Burgundy Ghost

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In a Maddenesque world, the only players I'd keep on the offensive side of the ball are:
Chris Cooley, Derrick Dockery, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Marko Mitchell, Santana Moss, Fred Davis, Todd Yoder, Eddie Williams, Edwin Williams and maybe Will Montgomery (only as a backup).

and on D I'd drop Griffin, Montgomery, Smoot, Daniels, Wynn

It's still early and we still have another 8 games of evaluation but in reality here's what we need to look for:

1. Who's restricted?
If the league does NOT have a new CBA in place then Campbell, Rogers and McIntosh I believe will be RFAs. That could be very good for the Skins especially for teams that may (will) have interest in all three players. You tender these guys and in Campbell and Rogers cases could get a 1st and a 3rd for any team that would want them. If there is a CBA in place they become UFAs, then you get a few comp picks.

2. Player Value:
Keep an eye on Andre Carter. Even at 31 he's likely to be in the 10-12 sack range and if you're the new Redskins GM (one can hope we get one) now is the perfect time to deal a player with good numbers when you have his replacement (Orakpo) here. He'll probably want a new deal with the other team and with no cap, another team should be able to absorb/rework his price. Same can be said about other older veterans with name quality (Moss is another name) that could be useful for a good team that's looking for an upgrade or extra piece of the puzzle. The better he does, the higher his value.....could the Skins try to finagle a 2nd rounder for him?

3. What will the new GM/coach want?
All of our guesses are just crapshoots at the moment b/c we have no idea who the new GM (again fingers crossed) and coach will be. I'd say there's little/no chance that Zorn will be back and I would argue that he shouldn't....but that's for another thread. The thing is, what scheme will the new coach run? What players does he need to run said system and are those players already here? Does the next coach of the Redskins really like what he sees from Jason Campbell or does he want a new QB? Is Carlos Rogers a fit for his D with his man coverage? Until we know, we won't be able to weed out guys who I would consider "bubble players".

4. Let the injured/aged guys go: Randy Thomas, Chris Samuels and Phillip Daniels can't stay healthy and are old in football years. Clinton Portis, with no cap ramifications, could be thrown in there. Really, I believe that this team is in serious rebuild mode. Now maybe with the right FO and coaching staff, this team could be productive if the O-line could be rebuilt and some other decent FAs are added......but I believe the Skins are going to have to develop over the next 2-3 seasons to get the desired result. B/c of that I think the team has to seriously consider players over thirty if they should remain here.

5. It will be hard to just "blow up" the team.
Sure, the Skins could cut just about everybody and try to (would) replace them with guys off the street, but it's never that easy. The new guys would have to develop chemistry and learn to work as a team. That's not a guarantee (just look at the 2000 Skins). What the Skins need to do is evaluate and determine who their "core players" are. Then develop the team around those guys to complement them and the new coaches schemes. Draft players who will fit the needs of this team and fill holes for the next 10 years.
 

Bulldog

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The redskins need a comprehensive tear down akin to what the Caps did in 2004.

There are corrosive personality types on the roster that will prevent the club from improving as a team until they are removed.

The trouble for fans is most of the corrosive players also happen to be the ones that are well-known or highly paid.

It's easy enough to cut Will Montgomery at the end of the season, but what about the collection of Portis, Haynesworth and Hall that together makes up our own Bermuda Triangle.
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servumtuum

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It's easy enough to cut Will Montgomery at the end of the season, but what about the collection of Portis, Haynesworth and Hall that together makes up our own Bermuda Triangle.
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I can't see getting rid of Haynesworth because of the fact that his presence is having an effect on the play of those around him on the D. He takes up two opposing OLs when he's in also-and for those reasons, in spite of his financial cost-I would think that the odds are strongly against our being able to replace his influence on improving the defense.

Portis gives me a problem. I acknowledge that the wear and tear on him physically has deteriorated his abilities as a running back, however we have absolutely nothing to replace him with in the backfield when it comes to blocking and again the odds of finding both a better ball carrier and an at least equal blocker through either the draft or free agency seem long enough to mitigate against the idea of getting rid of him immediately. I'd hold on to him if for nothing else but his protective abilities until the OL was shored-up in that direction.
 

Bulldog

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The Patriots and Colts have shown you no longer need a 1,500 yard back to win a title.

The loss of Portis in that regard is overblown.
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Lanky Livingston

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The Patriots and Colts have shown you no longer need a 1,500 yard back to win a title.

The loss of Portis in that regard is overblown.
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LOL yeah, when you have a hall of fame QB you don't need a 1500 yard back. Great examples. ;)
 

servumtuum

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In line with my hobby of muddying the waters at every opportunity-here's a list of the current potential 1500 yard rushers-those who, at the midpoint of the season, have rushed for at least 700-750 yards so far.

Chris Johnson-Tennessee Titans-959 yds. team record 2-6

Cedric Benson-Cincinnati Bengals-837 yds. team record 6-2

Steven Jackson-St. Louis Rams-784 yards team record 1-7

Adrian Peterson-Minnesota Vikings-784 yds. team record 7-1

DeAngelo Williams-Carolina Panthers-768 yds. team record 3-5

Maurice Jones Drew-Jacksonville Jags-737 yds.team record 4-4

Michael Turner-Atlanta Falcons-720 yds. team record 5-3

Thomas Jones-New York Jets-704 yds. team record 4-4

Some division leader stats. The Arizona Cardinals 5-3 record leading the admittedly weak NFC West two leading rushers-Tim Hightower and Beanie Wells have a combined total of 593 yards rushing.

The Cowboys trio of Barber, Choice and Jones- have 447, 249 and 298 yds respectively.

Denver has Moreno and Buckhalter with 423 and 353.

My personal conclusion, and something that I've thought for quite a while, is this-if you have a good passing game and a good passing QB-the run game becomes next to irrelevant except as a way to keep defenses honest. The teams that pass best and whose defenses can prevent the opponent from doing the same thing win more games.
 

Bulldog

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In 1991 Byner ran for 1,000 yards and Ervins for 500 for the Redskins.

Counterpunch and change of pace were more important than one player logging 30 carries a game.
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