NFL HOF Class of 2023 opinions, thoughts??

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SkinsOrlando

SkinsOrlando

I took the red pill
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Sometimes the HOF means something to fans and sometimes it doesn't. I usually won't watch the entire induction ceremony but might tune in for a few select players that I either A) enjoyed watching them play B) didn't see too much of their accolades but most stats don't lie or C) I think the speech might be a train wreck due to their poor speaking skills (Emmitt Smith anyone). I know for us Redskins fans as that's all that's in the HOF as I can't think of anyone whose worn the "Football Team" nor "Commanders" moniker that would be even remotely considered a potential HOF'er (Trent Williams was gone before the name change). I know I have still have some vitriol for how Monk was treated by the HOF jackoffs like Peter King etc. which brings me to what other players have been screwed over for either playing in small markets or because some voters love the highlights more than the actual production, this isn't just relegated to the NFL, I think MLB has an even mirkier line for their inductees as well and they have the great steroid era debate to deal with as well. This years inductees I overall believe is a good class although I think 2 of them I'm a little on the fence about.

Joe Thomas - OT - Browns - even a blind man couldn't argue against his induction , whether or not others are deserving who've been on the ballot is not a counter argument I'd intend to make. He was a beast.

Zach Thomas - LB - Dolphins, Dallas (1 year) - this is where I'm a little on the fence and not with his accomplishments, why'd it take this damn long for him to get in? He wasn't a sack machine but that wasn't his job, was this statistical bias by the voters like how we used to hear "that one highlight play everyone remembers" bull slacka they used against Monk. I dunno.

DeMarcus Ware - LB - Dallas, Denver - I initially was like is he really a HOF'er, then went back and did some research and yeah he had one helluva career, my anti-Dallas bias was initially showing obviously by maybe misremembering his overall resume.

Darrelle Revis - CB - Jets, Bucs, Pats, Jets, Chiefs - This is where I get a bit biased on the fact that for about 5 years he was freakin unreal, Revis island was nothing to mess with as an O. Coordinator but after his first stint with the Jets, he was a good CB but no longer that elite top guy imo. This is another one I'm maybe being too harsh on considering I was an advocate for Terrell Davis to get in. Is an elite 5 years a HOF career?

Ronde Barber - CB - Bucs - Longevity over impact on this one, I like Ronde Barber, I enjoyed watching him play, HOF?? This is the big fence sitter for me.


As far the others, I was either not alive yet nor old enough to remember their accomplishments, if not for Gibbs I'm unsure how many Redskins fans would know who Don Coryell is that are around my age?
 
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Zach Thomas I am on the fence about also. Great stats, but just not sure if he changed the game if you will, as the others did. Joe Thomas a no brainer, still hilarious when instead of going to the draft he wanted to go fishing I think it was haha.

Revis a very good corner, but a Hall of Famer? Not really sure about that. Has all the accolades, but still a tough one.
 
As a blind man, I’ll argue against Joe Thomas.

Jacoby deserves in. Not only was he a stalwart on one of the most famous and important lines in NFL history, he literally redefined what an NFL tackle should look like.

He and the Hogs introduced to the NFL the monster 300 pound tackle. Before Joe and Russ, linemen were 250, 265.

So yeah, Joe Thomas was a good tackle but Jacoby was a good tackle who changed the game.
 
Ok, you're arguing that Jacoby should be in, i don't think anyone who watched him play would disagree except for biased media who for whatever reason have disdain for those great Redskin teams. In fact he's one of the reasons I made this thread, the snubs. However, I don't think the Jacoby snub means Joe Thomas isn't deserving, it just shows the really subjective nature of the vote and bias and change in the game. Tackle is valued a hell of a lot more now with the emphasis on passing, Thomas blocked for shitty qb's and shitty teams that's not his fault and he's the type of guy who showed up every day anyway that we would've loved on our team. Jacoby also had to deal with LT arguably the nastiest qb hunter of all time, but do we want to punish Thomas for the fallacies or ignorance of the voters? I'd struggle there.
 
I get that, but in terms of precedence I stick with my grumpy assessment. Jacoby before Thomas :)
 
I've been saying this for a long time. Pedigree matters. Maybe we don't think it should, but it does. There's no better example than Thomas and Jacoby. Jacoby was an undrafted unknown from Louisville. Thomas was a 1st round draft pick from Wisconsin.

From the moment their NFL careers started, Thomas was always going to have a much greater likelihood of being recognized than someone like Joe Jacoby. It's not only how the NFL works, but it's unfortunately human nature to put great stock in such things.

Gary Clark will never get his due. largely for the same reasons. Played college ball at JMU, only drafted in an NFL supplemental draft. He has a lot of the HOF WR 'markers' (over 10,000 yds receiving, 65+ TDs, 4 Pro Bowls) but he will never even be in the conversation.
 
Boone said:
I've been saying this for a long time. Pedigree matters. Maybe we don't think it should, but it does. There's no better example than Thomas and Jacoby. Jacoby was an undrafted unknown from Louisville. Thomas was a 1st round draft pick from Wisconsin.

From the moment their NFL careers started, Thomas was always going to have a much greater likelihood of being recognized than someone like Joe Jacoby. It's not only how the NFL works, but it's unfortunately human nature to put great stock in such things.

Gary Clark will never get his due. largely for the same reasons. Played college ball at JMU, only drafted in an NFL supplemental draft. He has a lot of the HOF WR 'markers' (over 10,000 yds receiving, 65+ TDs, 4 Pro Bowls) but he will never even be in the conversation.
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My only argument against your first line is the fact that Jacoby was an anchor on the most famous offensive line in the history of the NFL. The Hogs are regarded in the same breath as The Purple People Eaters and The Steel Curtain. The problem is that I think it's held against them (all of these units) that they were part of a UNIT, and the HOF is an individual achievement. IMHO, the absolute best thing they could do with the HOF is to make an exception for a couple of these units and induct them as a group. They effected the the outcomes of games more than people want to even realize. We don't have to go over the stats of The Hogs to understand that they were arguably the most dominant, single entity of their era. I'm not talking specifically about grading them against other units, but I think they're on the very short list of ANYTHING that had the same level of effect at their peak. The Hogs effected games on the same level as Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, Emmitt Smith, ANYONE on a Bills team that went to 4 straight Super Bowls, Marcus Allen, and on and on and on.
 
I’m not making the argument… pedigree shouldn’t matter imho. But I think it does to those voting.

You alluded to this, but I think that the fact that Gibbs won 3 Superbowls with 3 different groups (including 3 different QBs) and not a lot of star power actually hurts guys when it comes to individual honors. I think some evaluators look at it and feel most of the success was due to Joe Gibbs and the coaches he surrounded himself with, not because of great players and their talent. There may even be some truth to that view.
 
Well there's also the strike shortened season BS that the "pundits" alleged "experts" tend to use to disparage the achievements of those teams as well that might play into the bias.
 
Jacoby and Thomas both deserve to be in, that simple for me. I do think sometimes it as Boone says, that it goes with how built up you were, rather than your accomplishments.

We all know Jacoby was one of the best to ever play the tackle position in the league, HoF or no HoF.
 
In the day of Sunday Ticket and fans of any team being able to see every game for over 2 decades I'd say that the exposure newer players get outside of their hometown market is definitely a big driving force. Jacoby had a local market nowhere near the size of some others at a time when the idea of every game in every market was a pipe dream. Boone in regards to Clark, they'd argue he accomplished those numbers thanks to Monk which is ironic since those same douche bags were against Monk for so many years. Could just be Redskins bias.
 
This goes to a different thought. I do think that some units deserve to be inducted. The Hogs are one such group.

So maybe you think Jacoby or Lachey don’t merit individual recognition, but they do as part of a group that sustained HOF level excellence for such a long period of time.
 
Agreed. And welcome to the site :cheers:
 
they need to find a way to nominate players into the hof fairly,writers hold a grude,players need to do it somehow.
 
I think that’s true. On the other hand, the nature of any HOF is that they either water down the meaningfulness by being super liberal about who they add, or they don’t and a lot of fans are pissed because there are always some borderlines who don’t make the cut.
 
I think they tried to right some wrongs with the veteran's committee picks and such but if selected that way, is it a blemish if you're the player?
 
the whole redskins line in the 80s deserves a spot in the hof,and so does joe bugel
 
Bugel was influential in that units dominance but the players had to execute it, perfect storm as he never was able to replicate it. Not sure I see Buges as a hof coach once I take off the burgundy and gold bias glasses.
 
nobody could have got the play out of those players like he did.
 
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