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Remember when we used to go into every season full of high hopes and KNOWING we would make the playoffs?
Remember when we used to KNOW that our defence would make plays in the clutch and win close games?
Remember when we KNEW our team would score more than 28 points a game?
this year im just hoping we dont embarrass ourselves on the field ala the Fecals game. That was a low point for this team, so was losing to really bad teams like the rams starting a rookie qb and feeding it to our defence.
I no longer have any hope of a competent defence that is steady and holds teams when it matters, Hell, I will be happy if we just look like we are all running the same scheme. Does anyone here truly believe that the players we have added so far on defence are going to be huge difference makers?
I have been anti 3-4 for a long time, the truth is that a 3-4 when run properly is a good scheme, but to run it properly requires knowledge of the scheme and what types of players will flourish. Not do OK, but flourish. I will try to explain why the 3-4 isnt going to work yet again , and use the simplest possible terms.
in ANY 3-4 you need at least 3 players out of your front 3 to be able to hold the point of attack, to stack blocks and shed them when the play comes their way, last season the only player who did this at least some of the time was Carriker, who also showed he was too slow off the edge to make plays. Bryant towards the end of the year was at least taking up a double team even if he didnt make many plays. Kemo was pushed around and looked weak at nose, Holliday and Daniels flashed at times but age made them brittle and has taken their endurance away. Gholston would look good for a play or two but was worn down due to lack of size.
We as fans saw very clearly that the 3-4 was not fitting our players even if some of us didnt want to admit that. some people even pointed to the inflated numbers of a few players as if somehow ignoring the key numbers would change what was happening.
Lets look at the most important stats and what can be inferred from them.
Rak- Rak was the key to this switch, Shanny used his name repeatedly as the main reason this switch would benefit us, Haslett stated several times that Raks physical package meant he would be a " demarcus ware" type player. He said that Rak had put up his 11 sack season despite not rushing the passer as much as he would in hasletts scheme and that with all the extra rushes he would easily add 5-6 sacks and perhaps even double his sack total. Yes Rak had several more rushes and played LB almost exclusively with only a couple games where he lined up like a DE in some packages, what was the result? 8.5 sacks. bottom line, the one player who was supposed to BENEFIT from this change the most, suffered.
Now lets actually Look at Rak the player, He is hard working, extremely strong (31 reps at the combine his draft year), has some decent explosion, but isnt extremely quick, has a limited toolbox of passrush moves, most based on the rip and swim. he doesnt have nifty feet , doesnt look comfortable in space with stiff hips, but makes up for it with hustle and he is relentless. he looks far better going forward than laterally and looks terrible moving backwards, awkward and almost uncomfortable looking. his absolute best move pass rushing is using a very good first step and then ripping past the Olineman and pressing the pocket, he doesnt seem to ever use check steps and you almost never see him come free almost untouched (like the great pass rushers do often). He physically is a tweener, not extremely large and bulky at 6-3 and 265 he is at the large end for OLB and the small side for a DE.
if I was only skimming film and looking at his measureables and stats I would say, he would be an outstanding OLB due to him being on the big side for an OLB and still having speed. but if i watched film I would know that he is pretty much going to be a DE who would be wasted doing anything other than rushing the passer and keeping contain. he is far less like demarcus ware and far more like Jason taylor.
The Dline- the temptation here would be to go with the obvious and show how our best DT was misused, too obvious, AH stats fell off due to lack of playing time as well as being misused but lets look a little deeper.
DT- Gholston has short arms and lacks bulk but he is quick off the ball and is what I call an all out effort guy, it means he will burn out if used too much but he will give you everything he has for 5-6 series a game and be solid in a rotation, but he cant hold the POA and doesnt scare anyone. Carter, every fan could have told you that despite looking like a prototype OLB Carter was a textbook undersized DE not an over sized olb, he showed that early on and it took until late in the season for the team to admit it. jarmon initially was told to lose weight, but they soon figured out he was not a linebacker, and Lorenzo alexander went from being a DT to an OLB? where he didnt embarrass himself but he didnt stand out either.
essentially we took what was a strength on this team (the Dline) and made it a weakness by not scheming properly. Jarmon who was a third rounder who was showing promise, Carter who was a probowl level pass rusher, AH who flashed dominance even when not used properly, Gholston who was at the least a solid rotation guy and Rak who made several huge plays at DE as a rookie playing DE part time, were all extremely misused last year and replaced by a struggling obviously unrecovered Kemo who was pushed around, a solid but unspectacular Carrikker who was by far the best 3-4 performer on the line (sad to say) and an obviously misused Rak.
at linebacker, we didnt make many plays at or near the line of scimmage percentage wise, we did have a couple guys who racked up some serious tackle numbers, players tend to do that when playing on a defence that cant stop anybody, and some people were fooled by that. Fletch still got numbers but made far less WOW plays and far more 10 yards down the field TD saving tackles, rocky made some plays but again, most of them too far down the field to matter. Landry at safety at times lined up like a backer, the problem was that teams started hitting the deep middle with regularity because he was always up tight. the biggest stats here is obviously the team stats in regards to YPcarry YP catch, first downs, and scoring.
WHAT HAVE WE DONE TO FIX THIS?
we added a pass rushing DE who is 6-4 267, ran a 4.62 40 and was known as "superman" at purdue due to his strength, Explosion: Is not a quick-twitch athlete but has enough explosiveness from his stance to challenge strong-side tackles as a pass rusher. Keeps his hips low and delivers a strong punch into his blocker's chest, giving him a strong bull rush and the ability to keep his distance from tackles on the edge. sound familiar? hmmmmm Does not have an exceptional closing burst, but his height and length make it difficult to see over or pass around him. Drops into coverage on occasion and hustles to plays but lacks great agility in space. Lacks counter pass-rush moves. hmmmmm, so are we running a 4-3 then with both him and Rak being obvious liabilities in space but being strong and fast? I doubt it, but wait it gets better....
we were extremely weak along the front 3 with no legit DL other than Carrikker so we draft ....
Jarvis Jenkins 6-4 310, now again on paper looks like a bit of a reach but not that bad , he has size, explosiveness and has played some 3-4 looks in college and he is a hard worker and good character kid.
Jenkins had a decent NFL combine, but failed to separate himself from the pack. His lack of quickness was apparent and he has trouble creating much of a pass rush against a decent offensive line. Scouts like his ability to stuff the run and that could be enough to make him a late second round draft pick, but do not be surprised if he slips into the middle of the third round.
The main concerns for Jenkins at the next level are his mechanics and conditioning. Many scouts believe that Jenkins plays a bit too high and also does not possess enough stamina to constitute being a three-down player.
Not much of an arsenal... Plays too high versus the pass, allows opponent's under his pads... Lacks stamina, more of a two-down run stuffer, is not on the field in passing situations... Top heavy... Overruns the pocket... Put up just 17 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press at the combine, was the only defensive tackle to not eclipse 20 reps.
Doesn’t have the elite size or strength to make him an obvious fit at nose tackle, but he lacks the athleticism to play end in a 3-4. Comments: Jenkins potentially has the size to play nose tackle, but he lacks the elite strength that most NFL nose tackles have. He probably isn’t ready to for a starting role immediately, but if he can add 10-15 pounds of muscle without losing his quickness he could potentially be a mid-round steal.
so yet another tweener but one who lacks any standout physicals such as great speed or strength which would make him a solid choice at either spot of need on the Dline?
Bottom line we went defence this draft, and then drafted guys who dont fit what Shanny has said (and shown) us that he wants to do. I was pleasantly surpised at our draft day trades, but I was not happy with how we used those choices.
someone PLEASE give me a reason to be excited that doesnt consist of " in 2 years we should be really good" lol
Remember when we used to KNOW that our defence would make plays in the clutch and win close games?
Remember when we KNEW our team would score more than 28 points a game?
this year im just hoping we dont embarrass ourselves on the field ala the Fecals game. That was a low point for this team, so was losing to really bad teams like the rams starting a rookie qb and feeding it to our defence.
I no longer have any hope of a competent defence that is steady and holds teams when it matters, Hell, I will be happy if we just look like we are all running the same scheme. Does anyone here truly believe that the players we have added so far on defence are going to be huge difference makers?
I have been anti 3-4 for a long time, the truth is that a 3-4 when run properly is a good scheme, but to run it properly requires knowledge of the scheme and what types of players will flourish. Not do OK, but flourish. I will try to explain why the 3-4 isnt going to work yet again , and use the simplest possible terms.
in ANY 3-4 you need at least 3 players out of your front 3 to be able to hold the point of attack, to stack blocks and shed them when the play comes their way, last season the only player who did this at least some of the time was Carriker, who also showed he was too slow off the edge to make plays. Bryant towards the end of the year was at least taking up a double team even if he didnt make many plays. Kemo was pushed around and looked weak at nose, Holliday and Daniels flashed at times but age made them brittle and has taken their endurance away. Gholston would look good for a play or two but was worn down due to lack of size.
We as fans saw very clearly that the 3-4 was not fitting our players even if some of us didnt want to admit that. some people even pointed to the inflated numbers of a few players as if somehow ignoring the key numbers would change what was happening.
Lets look at the most important stats and what can be inferred from them.
Rak- Rak was the key to this switch, Shanny used his name repeatedly as the main reason this switch would benefit us, Haslett stated several times that Raks physical package meant he would be a " demarcus ware" type player. He said that Rak had put up his 11 sack season despite not rushing the passer as much as he would in hasletts scheme and that with all the extra rushes he would easily add 5-6 sacks and perhaps even double his sack total. Yes Rak had several more rushes and played LB almost exclusively with only a couple games where he lined up like a DE in some packages, what was the result? 8.5 sacks. bottom line, the one player who was supposed to BENEFIT from this change the most, suffered.
Now lets actually Look at Rak the player, He is hard working, extremely strong (31 reps at the combine his draft year), has some decent explosion, but isnt extremely quick, has a limited toolbox of passrush moves, most based on the rip and swim. he doesnt have nifty feet , doesnt look comfortable in space with stiff hips, but makes up for it with hustle and he is relentless. he looks far better going forward than laterally and looks terrible moving backwards, awkward and almost uncomfortable looking. his absolute best move pass rushing is using a very good first step and then ripping past the Olineman and pressing the pocket, he doesnt seem to ever use check steps and you almost never see him come free almost untouched (like the great pass rushers do often). He physically is a tweener, not extremely large and bulky at 6-3 and 265 he is at the large end for OLB and the small side for a DE.
if I was only skimming film and looking at his measureables and stats I would say, he would be an outstanding OLB due to him being on the big side for an OLB and still having speed. but if i watched film I would know that he is pretty much going to be a DE who would be wasted doing anything other than rushing the passer and keeping contain. he is far less like demarcus ware and far more like Jason taylor.
The Dline- the temptation here would be to go with the obvious and show how our best DT was misused, too obvious, AH stats fell off due to lack of playing time as well as being misused but lets look a little deeper.
DT- Gholston has short arms and lacks bulk but he is quick off the ball and is what I call an all out effort guy, it means he will burn out if used too much but he will give you everything he has for 5-6 series a game and be solid in a rotation, but he cant hold the POA and doesnt scare anyone. Carter, every fan could have told you that despite looking like a prototype OLB Carter was a textbook undersized DE not an over sized olb, he showed that early on and it took until late in the season for the team to admit it. jarmon initially was told to lose weight, but they soon figured out he was not a linebacker, and Lorenzo alexander went from being a DT to an OLB? where he didnt embarrass himself but he didnt stand out either.
essentially we took what was a strength on this team (the Dline) and made it a weakness by not scheming properly. Jarmon who was a third rounder who was showing promise, Carter who was a probowl level pass rusher, AH who flashed dominance even when not used properly, Gholston who was at the least a solid rotation guy and Rak who made several huge plays at DE as a rookie playing DE part time, were all extremely misused last year and replaced by a struggling obviously unrecovered Kemo who was pushed around, a solid but unspectacular Carrikker who was by far the best 3-4 performer on the line (sad to say) and an obviously misused Rak.
at linebacker, we didnt make many plays at or near the line of scimmage percentage wise, we did have a couple guys who racked up some serious tackle numbers, players tend to do that when playing on a defence that cant stop anybody, and some people were fooled by that. Fletch still got numbers but made far less WOW plays and far more 10 yards down the field TD saving tackles, rocky made some plays but again, most of them too far down the field to matter. Landry at safety at times lined up like a backer, the problem was that teams started hitting the deep middle with regularity because he was always up tight. the biggest stats here is obviously the team stats in regards to YPcarry YP catch, first downs, and scoring.
WHAT HAVE WE DONE TO FIX THIS?
we added a pass rushing DE who is 6-4 267, ran a 4.62 40 and was known as "superman" at purdue due to his strength, Explosion: Is not a quick-twitch athlete but has enough explosiveness from his stance to challenge strong-side tackles as a pass rusher. Keeps his hips low and delivers a strong punch into his blocker's chest, giving him a strong bull rush and the ability to keep his distance from tackles on the edge. sound familiar? hmmmmm Does not have an exceptional closing burst, but his height and length make it difficult to see over or pass around him. Drops into coverage on occasion and hustles to plays but lacks great agility in space. Lacks counter pass-rush moves. hmmmmm, so are we running a 4-3 then with both him and Rak being obvious liabilities in space but being strong and fast? I doubt it, but wait it gets better....
we were extremely weak along the front 3 with no legit DL other than Carrikker so we draft ....
Jarvis Jenkins 6-4 310, now again on paper looks like a bit of a reach but not that bad , he has size, explosiveness and has played some 3-4 looks in college and he is a hard worker and good character kid.
Jenkins had a decent NFL combine, but failed to separate himself from the pack. His lack of quickness was apparent and he has trouble creating much of a pass rush against a decent offensive line. Scouts like his ability to stuff the run and that could be enough to make him a late second round draft pick, but do not be surprised if he slips into the middle of the third round.
The main concerns for Jenkins at the next level are his mechanics and conditioning. Many scouts believe that Jenkins plays a bit too high and also does not possess enough stamina to constitute being a three-down player.
Not much of an arsenal... Plays too high versus the pass, allows opponent's under his pads... Lacks stamina, more of a two-down run stuffer, is not on the field in passing situations... Top heavy... Overruns the pocket... Put up just 17 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press at the combine, was the only defensive tackle to not eclipse 20 reps.
Doesn’t have the elite size or strength to make him an obvious fit at nose tackle, but he lacks the athleticism to play end in a 3-4. Comments: Jenkins potentially has the size to play nose tackle, but he lacks the elite strength that most NFL nose tackles have. He probably isn’t ready to for a starting role immediately, but if he can add 10-15 pounds of muscle without losing his quickness he could potentially be a mid-round steal.
so yet another tweener but one who lacks any standout physicals such as great speed or strength which would make him a solid choice at either spot of need on the Dline?
Bottom line we went defence this draft, and then drafted guys who dont fit what Shanny has said (and shown) us that he wants to do. I was pleasantly surpised at our draft day trades, but I was not happy with how we used those choices.
someone PLEASE give me a reason to be excited that doesnt consist of " in 2 years we should be really good" lol
