Hogs Haven: A Look at All 9 Sacks

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Goaldeje

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Excellent write up with pictures for those of us with low attention spans. Maybe the OLine isn't as bad as we thought?

Apologies in advance for what you're about to read. But I couldn't think of anything else to breakdown, so I'm going to take a look at all 9 sacks. Going into this game, the Bills had a team total of just two four sacks, and somehow left the game with 13 team sacks. Was this down to good defense, or poor protection? Lets have a look.
http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/31/2528355/a-look-at-all-9-sacks-by-the-bills-against-the-redskins
 

Henry

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Oh Beck was horrible.

I remember sack #8 in particular thinking 'the OL doesn't deserve that.'

Outside the pocket, open field ... there's like four different things a QB can do there.

Not that it really matters, but I'd put Grossman in and just suffer with the bad decisions. At least he has confidence and an arm, and on his good days we'll score once in awhile. Neither one of the QBs is going to win us anything but the way Beck is playing the offense isn't even getting any decent reps.
 

Chris

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I guess I agree with Henry. If Beck was 25 I would have more patience with him.
 

Goaldeje

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Pretty nice breakdown, and I have to admit being swayed enough to think Rex may be a better alternative. Beck was... disgraceful. Just horrible. Was the Rex/Philly game an anamoly, or had he regressed to his norm?
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GSF

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Beck is terrible. Put Rex in there, at least he makes it interesting. zero offense with Beck.
 

Chris

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Beck at 30 is clearly not an NFL talent. Never was. Never will be.

The simple fact that Mike Shanahan thought he was is frightening.
 

Goaldeje

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Beck at 30 is clearly not an NFL talent. Never was. Never will be.

The simple fact that Mike Shanahan thought he was is frightening.
Yes. This is what I am struggling with. I thought Shanny was a QB guru. Given that all summer we read about how great John Beck was supposed to be, combined with the McNabb disaster, makes me really second guess him as a QB guru. I can excuse McNabb, because apparently Reid did a great job of hiding him over the past decade. But when taken in conjunction with Beck... yikes.
 

Bulldog

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It's a combination. Grossman was beaten up in the win over the Giants. So, the starters were not bowling people over before they were injured.

Beck, because he got the job based on Grossman's interceptions, is going to hold the ball longer and not risk the picks.

The second INT against the Bills was caused by Stallworth falling down on the route.

Beck should have run the ball more to create chances.

But he knows that Kyle is grading the qbs on their pocket passing.

I don't think Beck feels as if he can go out and try to make individual plays.

Kyle seems to be another dictator in re the offense as Al Saunders was a few years ago.
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fansince62

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pffftttt...these are the same guys who performed the same bad analysis when whitewashing Grossman's efforts. I knew what the conclusions were going to be before even reading this!

once again....crappy analysis. Even conceding that Beck apparently doesn't see the field well...I was counting off during the game time to set up and pass....and it was generally 3.5 secs or less. in short...ka ka.....no matter how one looks at it. these guys never bothered to look at the most critical factor....time!!!!!!
 

Goaldeje

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Did ya read the analysis, FS, or just went into it knowing what was gonna be said?

:)

Look at the stills they posted. There is plenty of evidence that Beck was missing WRs. Now, certainly the OLine could have blocked better, and the author said as much. But pretty solid analysis, if you read through the whole thing.
 

fansince62

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I read every word Goal. And yes....I could tell from the game that Beck wasn't seeing the field.

But I'm laughing if you think this is good analysis. Stills don't show time...and that is the number one variable in all of this. before laying down another brick in their Grossman wall...these guys should at least have pondered a nanosecond on what pass protection is supposed to do...perhaps give the QB time to throw? they didn't didn't do that at all! it's bad, bad analysis.

as for your other points.....not at all. they don't know what routes should have been run....they don't know what plays were called...they don't know what the check downs were.....it's good analysis for Joe fan who snaps some picts and wants to throw something on the fire other than "he stinks"...but analysis? not even close.
 

fansince62

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Beck is terrible. Put Rex in there, at least he makes it interesting. zero offense with Beck.

Beck hasn't done anything. no argument there.

Rex isn't interesting. He's an embarrassment as a professional athlete. and a crappy QB to boot. I'd rather watch Beck flounder than Rex butterball his way around the field while fumbling and tossing INTs.

but we've had this exchange before......:)


ughhhh...stuck in QB *ell!!!!
 

Goaldeje

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Fair enough Al. Not interested in a pissing match here. I disagree with you, but we can move on.

My concern at this point is not which QB gives us a better chance to win, but rather which QB gives our youngin's a better chance to develop, and develop well? Out of the two of them, is there one who is able to deliver the ball on target from time to time, in stride, allowing the WR to run after the catch? Neither QB is impressive in the least, to me. If Beck is missing open receivers, is that better than Rex trying to fit the ball into too tight a space?

Not sure what the answer is, by the way. Interested in what others think.
 

servumtuum

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pffftttt...these are the same guys who performed the same bad analysis when whitewashing Grossman's efforts. I knew what the conclusions were going to be before even reading this!

once again....crappy analysis. Even conceding that Beck apparently doesn't see the field well...I was counting off during the game time to set up and pass....and it was generally 3.5 secs or less. in short...ka ka.....no matter how one looks at it. these guys never bothered to look at the most critical factor....time!!!!!!
Fansince brings up an excellent point and a definite weakness in the analysis. The best way to have presented this, IMO, would have been slo-mo replays of each play so we could watch each play as it developed. That way what each player did and did not do could be isolated and seen in the context of the flow of the play making it easier to spot the point-or points-at which the likelihood of a sack happening started to spike.
 
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fansince62

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Fair enough Al. Not interested in a pissing match here. I disagree with you, but we can move on.

My concern at this point is not which QB gives us a better chance to win, but rather which QB gives our youngin's a better chance to develop, and develop well? Out of the two of them, is there one who is able to deliver the ball on target from time to time, in stride, allowing the WR to run after the catch? Neither QB is impressive in the least, to me. If Beck is missing open receivers, is that better than Rex trying to fit the ball into too tight a space?

Not sure what the answer is, by the way. Interested in what others think.

wasn't even arguing with you Goal! The orig analysis had a rather obvious set of biases. that was my target.

they're both wanting when it comes to being QBs. my own preference is for Beck.

1) he's played all of two games in the last 4 yrs. there is the hope he can improve. Rex has triple the playing time...and still eats it. and always will.

2) Beck simply looks more athletic to me. give him some time and he will do better. Rex will always be short, immobile, prone to errors. heck...even if Rex were marginally better...I just can't stand watching him. doesn't look/play like a real QB.

either way...to be honest....it isn't all that significant. the o-line can't block and the receivers can't open space. that's where the staff needs to focus. forget the QBs...they're both going to be history soon enough.
 

fansince62

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how about this Goal?

A for effort to UK. I think he shorted some of the variables that matter and therefore disagree with the conclusions of an effort he devoted considerable time and energy to.
 

Lanky Livingston

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how about this Goal?

A for effort to UK. I think he shorted some of the variables that matter and therefore disagree with the conclusions of an effort he devoted considerable time and energy to.
You are correct that time is an essential variable and probably should have been included with this analysis; however to say its not good is simply incorrect. Stills are what they use on NFL sidelines, by every coach ever. They are invaluable to see what is happening with a play, and perfectly acceptable for this type of analysis.
 

fansince62

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with all due respect....so what?

stills are a tool. what matters is what you are looking for, how you use te tool, what you see, how you interpret what you see, and all the acillary information needed for thorough analyis. it's the analysis that matters....which has been my point all along. and analysis encompasses a whole lot more than tools.

plus some common sense. ANYONE who watched that game knows the o-line and scheme broke down fast - to the point that there was insufficient time to execute most of the plays. if a QB is getting 3 secs or less...and is gettng pounded.....is there a correlation between that circumstance and the ability to see the field, make decisions, deploy a play as designed...a whole myriad of things? I'm not thrilled with Beck and see him as victim to some of the same problems Rex had to deal with...though Rex had the starting 5 to work with. I'm not willing to buy into an essentially single variable analysis that doesn't consider the most important factors and which defies the common sense take-away anyone who watched the game knows....which btw...everyne else pretty much admits to when discussing what the priorities ought to be for next off-season.
 

Chris

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granthpaulsen Grant Paulsen

John Beck said he could've done things differently to avoid "a handful" of the 9 sacks. Said he has to get the ball out quicker.
 

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