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Graziano: Redskins have no reason to keep Hall

McKissic for the win

Lanky Livingston

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I'm not saying they're gospel, but I like the ProFootballFocus.com grades. Those guys watch every player and every play and offer clinical evaluations of what players are doing relative to what they're supposed to be doing. I think, given a large enough sample size, we can use them to help us get a sense of who's playing well and who's not in the NFL.

So far this season, Washington Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall ranks 95th overall out of the 99 cornerbacks PFF has evaluated. When you sort strictly by coverage grade (taking out penalties and performance against the run), Hall drops to 99th. Last year, PFF ranked Hall as the 66th-best cornerback in the league overall, 94th in coverage. And on Sunday, in the fourth quarter of a 27-12 loss to the Steelers in Pittsburgh, Hall lost his mind on an official and got ejected after costing his team 30 yards' worth of penalties.

My question is this: Why is this guy still on the Redskins? What, exactly, is the contribution that he's making?

It's not news that Hall can't cover. The Redskins spent this offseason trying to find ways to hide him -- moving him inside where they thought his supposed playmaking instincts might lead to something against slot receivers as opposed to exposing him on the outside, even using him at safety every now and then. They sold the idea to Hall as a cool way to jump-start the late portion of his career as some sort of Charles Woodson-type utility defensive back. But they haven't been able to hide him, in part because the rest of the secondary has fallen apart and in part because Hall just isn't playing very well.

He's known as a guy who gets beat but also makes plays, but that isn't really holding up anymore. He's got two interceptions this year after he had three last year. He's been credited with six pass breakups this year; there are 34 defensive backs in the league with more. On a team with better options, he probably wouldn't see the field. The Redskins don't have better options, but I still don't see why that should keep them from getting rid of him. It's hard to see how you could really damage your 32nd-ranked pass defense by cutting a guy who is, statistically, the worst cover corner in the league.

Especially if he's going to embarrass you. Especially if he's a nine-year veteran who needs to be restrained by actual team leaders London Fletcher and Lorenzo Alexander because he got so upset about an Emmanuel Sanders block (admittedly, a filthy one) that he felt the need to scream and curse out the officials. You can read in this Dan Steinberg blog post what Redskins coach Mike Shanahan said about Hall's meltdown Sunday, and what he said about a similarly costly and unprofessional outburst in last season's game against the Patriots. My question for Shanahan is what reason he still has to put up with it.

Click link for the rest.


Anyone have footage of the "filthy" block from Sanders? Seemed like D Hall was the more aggressive on the actual play, so it must have been earlier?
 

tshile

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Would it also send a message to the younger players on the still-developing team that there are consequences for stupid, unprofessional behavior? Heck yeah it would, and that might be worth it at this point in the franchise's history.
and this is what my buddy and I were discussing...

he may be a big cap hit, but at some point in time the message you send is worth the cost.

if you're going to suck at your job and behave like this then you can do it in another uniform, or watch football on sundays from a couch if no one else wants you.

i can put up with a gap in talent. i cannot put up with attitudes like his, or selfish behavior like his.
 

Dead Money

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He's not a big cap hit. I don't think. Its his salary this year which is like $6mil that is automatic right... (and isnt that already accounted for?) and I think next years number only carries like $300k in guaranteed cash from what I could find in the interwebz. That was the point in frontloading his contract which is why we're in this mess to begin with. Somebody pinch me or prove me wrong, please.

I agree cutting him could do more good than bad at this point. b-bye.

He'll be the next T.O., Plaxico, Ochostinko that can't get a job because of his mouth/actions except this one can't even play football anynmore.
 

tshile

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He's not a big cap hit. I don't think. Its his salary this year which is like $6mil that is automatic right... (and isnt that already accounted for?) and I think next years number only carries like $300k in guaranteed cash from what I could find in the interwebz. That was the point in frontloading his contract which is why we're in this mess to begin with. Somebody pinch me or prove me wrong, please.

I agree cutting him could do more good than bad at this point. b-bye.

He'll be the next T.O., Plaxico, Ochostinko that can't get a job because of his mouth/actions except this one can't even play football anynmore.
that's just his base salary.

using sportstrac, which is the site others use so I imagine it's credible, but I don't know...
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/deangelo-hall/

he's a 9.8 million dollar hit this year, 11.5 million dollar hit 2013, 12.5 million dollar hit 2014.

thats why he's still on the team.

vinny cerrato and dan snyder. and we have people bitching about shanahan and allen :laugh:
 

Goaldeje

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James Madison

Good God. I just threw up a little. That penalty, combined with the Mara screw-job may prevent us from cutting him outright, which is a damn shame. I have been lenient with Hall, but that penalty was the ultimate in selfishness. I'd be all for deactivating him and bringing along a young'in who we can throw out there to try to develop. Whoever we put out there can NOT be worse than worst in the league, so why not?
 

Lanky Livingston

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I don't think the spotrac site includes the recent restructure. For Redskins' contracts, I like to use hogs.net.

http://www.thehogs.net/washington-redskins/salary.php?search=TotalCapHit

He's got a $6.5M hit this year, and an $8.3M hit next year. Not exactly sure how that works, but I think the $6.5M hit would be prorated for half a year, so it would be $3.25M, but we'd have to absorb the entire $8.3M hit. Unless there's some sort of conduct clause in his contract that allows for the money to be forfeited? Don't even know if that's legal or not.

Anyway, not sure its feasible at this point, especially because of the cap penalties. But if Kevin is right, and the cap penalties have already been assessed, then maybe we can release him without worrying about it? I'm not sure. GODdell & Mara would find some way to screw us over, I'm sure.
 

Dead Money

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that's just his base salary.

using sportstrac, which is the site others use so I imagine it's credible, but I don't know...
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/deangelo-hall/

he's a 9.8 million dollar hit this year, 11.5 million dollar hit 2013, 12.5 million dollar hit 2014.

thats why he's still on the team.

vinny cerrato and dan snyder. and we have people bitching about shanahan and allen :laugh:


Goddammit I knew that looked too good to be true! thanks for fixing that thought. ugh.

EDIT: WHoops.... does that site factor in the money that was given to him in 2010 that helped spark the whole cap debacle in the first place? Nope don't think it does... bogus info all over the interwebz it seems... who has the correct info???

Albert Haynesworth – everyone’s favorite punching bag this year -- had a $21 million bonus this year that was restructured in the manner described above to have the entire amount count in 2010 with no accounting in future years. DeAngelo Hall had a $15 million bonus restructured in the same manner. Both players had voidable clauses in their sole control, allowing them to cut short their contracts assuming they repaid their bonuses (which, of course, they would never do as that money has already been spent).

Thus, for Cap accounting, both amounts count solely in 2010 and are not prorated if and when the Cap returns in 2011 or beyond. That is $36 million of money hitting 2010, the year without a Cap, and no remaining Cap hits on that money in future years. And, perhaps best of all, the Redskins can now dump Haynesworth without Cap consequence next season, a move I fully expect them to make.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Friday-new-and-note-4038.html
 
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Lanky Livingston

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Good God. I just threw up a little. That penalty, combined with the Mara screw-job may prevent us from cutting him outright, which is a damn shame. I have been lenient with Hall, but that penalty was the ultimate in selfishness. I'd be all for deactivating him and bringing along a young'in who we can throw out there to try to develop. Whoever we put out there can NOT be worse than worst in the league, so why not?
Exactly...what would they lose by just sitting his ass for the rest of the year? Give him the Lav Coles big-screen TV treatment and play Crawford & Bernstein. They can't be any worse, except maybe we won't get the 3 interceptions Hall provides. OH NOES! DEFENSE IZ RUINED! lol
 

tshile

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I have no idea if it factors that in or not. As I've said before, I'm not a salary cap guy. I've seen multiple people here use sports trac when discussing contracts so I thought i'd use them for this.

Guess that's what I get lol.
 

Dead Money

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from @czabe..."If Goodell issues suspension for DeAngelo Hall, the Redskins should DEFINITELY appeal it.... and ask him to double it."
 

Dead Money

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Jaimie I don't see any prorated bonus for 2012 on the books using the site you posted. That means were are on the hook for nothing this year if he is cut. Wait there is a veteran rule if there on the books for the first blah blah blah their season's salary is guaranteed..blah blah blah. No wonder guys get paid a lot to take care of this ****!

I think 2013 his 8mil is salary with .3 being bonus money. I've looked around as much as I can, we'll just have to see what turns up we can't be the only ones wondering what this tool costs us.

You think given my screen name I would know more about this crap. :)
 

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The trading deadline has now been moved to Thursday because of Sandy. Is it possible we could trade Hall for a can of stickum? Seeing as we have a teamful of Clifford Franklins, I'd call that a GREAT trade! ;)
 

Dead Money

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it would be more demoralizing to bench him than to just cut him and allow him to walk away thinking he is OK.
would be detrimental to the young guys in the locker room though... don't ya think?
 

Miles Monroe

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I'd love to give him his walkin papers outright, or at the least sit him for the rest of the season, but who fills the spot ?

It's not like we're deep at the spot.
 

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I'd love to give him his walkin papers outright, or at the least sit him for the rest of the season, but who fills the spot ?

It's not like we're deep at the spot.
You're saying a rookie can't do at least what Hall is doing?
 

Bulldog

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DeAngelo Hall is perhaps the last of the Cerrato Screw-Ups we have to purge from the roster. The blog post was right in that Hall is a distraction rather than being a leader. Just because a player is 31 years old doesn't mean he is a mentor. In fact, the example Hall sets is counter-productive for younger players to see.

Shanahan's biggest mistakes here have been when he has stepped outside of drafting players and signing undrafted free agents.

I would not make any significant trades before the deadline. One player, especially a mid-tier 30 year old is not going to reset the defense and will cost us a pick or a younger player we should keep.

The Donovan McNabb and Jammal Brown trades and the signing of Josh Morgan are examples of where the team has taken on payroll when the cap is tight for players who haven't contributed.

If I were Shanahan I would just admit the team is still rebuilding due to the injuries and holes remaining to be filled and go into the offseason pointing to the experience Griffin and Morris got in their rookie seasons and the emergence of Trent Williams as a more consistent force at LT.

Bobby Beathard OFTEN traded a #1 pick over the years for players or a combination of picks on lower rounds.

You CAN win by making smart decisions in Rounds 2, 3 and 4 and even lower down.

The Redskins proved that over time.

There is no reason to panic.

It is true though that there is a veteran core on this team that is simply over the hill or non-productive vs. salary.

That group includes Moss, Brown, Hall, Cedric Griffin, Madieu Williams, etc.

Of that group only Hall is a chemistry issue for the team.

Shanahan has nothing to lose in sanctioning Hall for his behavior. We may have to pay him an outsized amount of money for the rest of the season, but we don't have to put up with his crap on the field.

As Jimmy Johnson used to say 'we can lose without you as easily as with you'.
 

SilentThreat

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Honestly, I see no reason to keep him on the team. What do we lose? This is one of the few scenario's that you can say "Addition by subtraction" actually holds water. I don't generally agree with that theory, especially in the sense of a 'playmaker,' but I'm over Hall. 5 years ago, Hall could afford to be a step behind because he had make-up speed. He had the ability to hit another gear and make a play on the ball... The biggest problem is he's not willing to put his pride aside and learn. He's never going to be a $5+ mil a year guy... why keep him on the field when a younger guy can get the valuable experience. If were gonna get beat... at least put someone out there who is going to learn from it.
 

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It was clear to everyone outside of Cerrato that after he was bounced from Atlanta and Oakland that DeAngelo Hall had issues.

Notice that teams like the Giants, Patriots, Packers, etc. stayed clear of him.

How he got $20M plus to sign with the Redskins after 'behaving' himself for 8 games in 2009 is the second biggest heist in recent NFL history after Haynesworth.
 

Fear The Spear

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Give him the Lav Coles big-screen TV treatment and play Crawford & Bernstein. They can't be any worse, except maybe we won't get the 3 interceptions Hall provides. OH NOES! DEFENSE IZ RUINED! lol
Yes, Bernstine would be worse, considering he is on IR.
Or were you speaking of a different player than the one who is on our IR, since our player's name is spelled Bernstine, not Bernstein :)
 

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