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Fallout From Griffin's Injury

One of many experimental iterations ...

SC_RedskinsFan

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Some of this has been talked about and some has not. I think it will be interesting to everyone's opinions, and what actually plays out.

1. Will the likelihood of not having Griffin increase the chances that Kyle may still be interviewed and takes a job elsewhere?

2. Will/ should Shanny get the ax for his part in not pulling Griffin in yesterdays game?

3. If Cousins becomes a decent starter do we sit him IF Griffin recovers mid way through next season.

4. If Griffin misses all of next year, should he automatically be the starter in 2014? **** 2014 seems way to far away....
 

Fear The Spear

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3 - like in SF "you play the hot hand". We once had Schroeder, Humpheries, Williams, AND Rypien if I recall correctly. It was whomever was performing the best at the time.
This is an exception to that rule. Griffin plays if he's healthy, regardless of who has the "hot hand", simply based on the ginormous investment placed in him.
 

Henry

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Dont know. Dont care.

Im going out for a drink. I'll be back when the preseason starts.

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Boone

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I know I'm in the minority, but I think the suggestion that Shanahan could or should get fired is ridiculous. I'm not saying I agree with the decision, but I will give Shanahan the benefit of the doubt that his decision was based almost exclusively on his level of respect for what Griffin contributed this year, and his belief that Griffin is a special QB who can't be counted out.

It was a mistake, but I don't believe it was one made because Shanahan is selfish, callous, or any of the other things a lot of folks are tarring and feathering him with. He made a stupid call, but Griffin himself contributed greatly to it happening. I get that it's 'ultimately the coach's responsibility', and that's correct. But part of Shanahan's error was trusting RG3 when he said he was okay. Clearly he wasn't and Shanahan really screwed the pooch when we could all see Griffin was done and yet he continued to play. I just don't see that as a 'firing offense' though.
 

McD5

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Boone, regardless of his intentions, what bigger error could Shanahan have possibly made?

Teams kill for a franchise QB. With a few exceptions, we've felt mostly pain for the last 20 years without one.

Dan did his part. He threw his chips onto the table. He gave Shanahan everything he wanted. He sat back quietly and watched the Shanahan QB failures known as McNabb, Grossman and Beck. He could have complained, and like all of us, was surely shaking his head at times as Shanny failed badly at the QB position over and over.

But he didn't. And even in spite of Shanny's QB escapades, when the time came to move up for that elusive golden ring--the franchise QB--he put all of his faith into Shanahan and his good judgement. We gave up a lot, for the potential to finally turn this franchise around.

In my opinion, Shanahan made the unforgivable error of not realizing the importance of a player like RG3. He had a player that many other teams only dream of. And whether his intentions were good or not, he literally rode him into the ground, and put the future of this franchise at great risk.

Instead of now being the favorites to compete for the division title for years to come, and possibly many deep playoff runs ahead, we are now left to wonder if that amazing franchise QB will ever be the same again.

It was a colossal error. Well-intentioned, negligent, ignorant? Call it what you like.

But if that level of incompetence doesn't warrant a coach being fired, then what does?
 

Boone

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Okay - fair enough. But let's also be honest and admit you, and most others, are mad as hell and looking for someone to blame. I have the same urge, but I just don't have the energy for it. Would it be any better if Griffin had come into this game completely healthy and gone down with the exact same injury? It happens every year to lots of guys. What would be the difference? Same exact result. You say it didn't have to happen. I probably agree with that. But let's also acknowledge he is a reckless player who doesn't protect himself. It's a fact.

Everyone is saying, it's not Griffin's fault, you can't expect him to tell the truth when asked if he's able to go. I think that's utter bull****. He's not in high school, he's a grown man, and he had to know when asked that he was a damn far sight from okay. Griffin himself owns a large degree of responsibility for getting injured further. We don't want to admit it, because we like Griffin and idolize him. But Griffin's as 'culpable' as Shanahan is.

Anyway - you really think firing Shanahan and starting over is going to be helpful? Seriously? I just don't see it.
 
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Boone

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And btw way McD5 - you know I like and respect you - as well as everyone here and obviously I get what you're saying and feeling. I would just argue that the result of an accident shouldn't determine the ramifications for those involved. It's like running a red light. You shouldn't do it, it's stupid, but you shouldn't give one guy a ticket when he makes it through uneventfully, and the death sentence to another guy because he hits a busload of kids. It was a bad decision, by both Griffin and Shanahan and both are going to pay for it.

Truthfully, after last evening's game, I had the urge to steer clear of my own site for about 6 months as it sickens me to even think about the whole situation.
 
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McD5

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I'm really not knee-jerking, or going crazy over here.

Had Griffin come into the game healthy, or even slightly injured and suffered the same injuries, it would have been better. That's understandable; injuries happen.

What I cannot excuse is leaving your franchise QB in there in the fourth quarter when he is obviously lame, to become a human punching bag. That's beyond reckless. That's horrendous judgement that may impact us for years to come.

You would never see Peyton Manning put into that position. Or Tom Brady. Hobbling around like that? No way.

We don't have three more firsts to trade in hopes of finding another phenom like RG3.

Had Jim Zorn done that instead of Shanahan, we'd be calling him the stupidest coach of our last 50 years.

All of the facts aren't out yet, but I just don't see how we can trust his judgement in the future.
 

Win4us

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1. I don't think if a team is serious about obtaining Kyle, having Griffin or not won't make much of a difference.

2. Shanny shouldn't get the axe for this and I firmly believe he will NEVER repeat this mistake again. Firing is a bit much though i wouldn't disagree with Joe Gibbs visiting the park and backhanding him a couple times.

3. If Cousins is red hot through preseason and the beginning of the year then yes you have to stay with him imho. For this to happen though i believe Shanallen HAS to address the o-line to firm up the pass rush. That and maybe grab a stud TE somewhere as well.

4. If Griff has to miss all next season then it should be open competition in 2014. We can only hope Kirk develops in to something that would bring back a legit QB controversy. I'd love to have a Drew Brees/Rivers type dillema on our hands personally.
 

McD5

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And btw way McD5 - you know I like and respect you - as well as everyone here and obviously I get what you're saying and feeling. I would just argue that the result of an accident shouldn't determine the ramifications for those involved.
Likewise, amigo. I enjoy the friendly conversation and atmosphere here.

And unlike many spastic posters I've seen on other sites calling for someone's....anyone's head......I'm truly not basing this on the results of the accident.

I don't trust his judgement. His judgement was bad believing that McNabb would fit into his system. His judgement (at least vocally) that Beck or Grossman could get it done was bad. And this was the most egregious of all.

We aren't talking about a learning, rookie coach here. He's a vet. He should know better.

He's being paid $7 million a year to know better. And when he doesn't know better......possibly hurting the next ten years of this franchise? I'm sorry, but that type of coach has to go.

I really can't think of a worse mistake he could possibly make than the one he just made.
 

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A lot of what you've said rings true. I am very disappointed in Griff because I think he put ego before his team and then tried to characterize it as heroic,but I can't really argue your primary point. Terrible coaching by Shanahan.
 

McD5

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A lot of what you've said rings true. I am very disappointed in Griff because I think he put ego before his team and then tried to characterize it as heroic,but I can't really argue your primary point. Terrible coaching by Shanahan.
I also place some fault on RG3. One comment he made really rang of hubris to me. Something along the lines of "I give the team the best chance to win. That's why I'm the starter."

That may be youth, it may also be a little of being overwhelmed and impacted by all of the high praise from the press recently. It certainly didn't help.
 

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gah you all are soft, and its probably why we cant have nice things. Its no suprise that the beat writers for the skins are such haters, we have a huge base of haters.

We have a guy in Griffin that doesnt know quit, puts himself on the line for us and we treat him as a bafoon. We went from worst to first, and all we can take from it is who can we fire or blame cause we didnt go further in the playoffs(I know you all pretended its more complicated than that).

While all of you are draped in the weak drapings of accusations, I stand proudly in my colors for what my team achieved this year. I will ignore your odors of self destruction, and instead savor the olefactory bliss of what we achieved. **** all you self haters, and stone in the pocket ready to punish bitches. My focus is getting a bye next round so I can hear you say "we should have lost some more games so we could stay fresh without a bye".
 

Rymanofthenorth

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the point is that he wasnt healthy, he was put in a bad situation and rather than do what a good coach does and thats make a judgement call , shanny hid behind the " but he told me he was ok" its bull****. a 22 year old rookie isnt the judge of who should play, the 7 million dollar hall of fame coach is. and the 7 million dollar hall of fame coach **** the bed.

I can understand letting him play, after all at 75% he got us a 14 point lead, but after he ran that boot and was obviously limping, he should have been pulled, then when he threw the pick, again, should have been pulled, leaving him out there after that was in my mind not just stupid but negligent.

I have not lost sight of the fact that shanny is the reason our offence has vastly improved, but I balance that with how garbage our defence has been for 4 seasons now and his handling of this and I am not as rosy on the future as I was 72 hours ago. I am angry and feel like we should be at least censuring him for stupidity.
 

Henry

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I raise my glass to Ryman! Spot on!

Off to find round two ...

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Goaldeje

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I think Henry needs an intervention.

I don't have a problem with him leaving Griffin out there, sorry. Shanahan wasn't taking the long approach, and that doesn't bother me. We are all acting like multiple playoff appearances and Super Bowl appearances were a given, and something we should expect. This is sports, and the one thing I have learned, and can cite example after example about, is that you just never know.

I would have been livid if Shanny had done this in the regular season. But this was the playoffs, and you can't know what the future brings. Short sighted? Sure. But that's sports for you.

I think Boone nailed it. Griff should not have seen the field again after the Ravens injury. Period. THAT was the time to shut him down and save him for next year. At that point, you turn the team over to Kirk and hope for the best, playoff chase or not. But once Griff was activated again for the playoff stretch run, the message that was sent, implicitly or not, was that Shanny and the Redskins organization would do anything to win. ANYTHING. When your 22 year old rookie understands that, they too will do anything to win.

We can talk about Shanny's judgment regarding leaving Griff in the game when he was limping around, but as none of us are pro football players, I'm not sure we can fully understand it. I listened to ESPN radio all day yesterday (lotso driving) and Cris Carter, Jaws, Herm Edwards, Bruschi one after another all came through and had no problem whatsoever with Shanahan or RG3 doing what they did. In fact, they were a bit puzzled about what the fuss about, and were having trouble seeing it from anyone else's perspective. I came away from those discussions feeling that the culture in pro football must be a different beast from anything I'm used to. To me, when he limped on his 9 yard run, I would have pulled him right away. Not to protect him even, but just because of ineffectiveness. That's not what any of those guys would have done. I don't get it, but apparently the rules and culture are different on that level.
 

stevenaa

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It's just such a continuation of the same stupid decision making that has plagued this team for decades. They finally start to do the right things. Make the rigth investements. Then to potentially piss it down the drain is inexcusible. Shanahan failed on many levels and there's just no excusing it. The injury happened early in the game. There was far too much time at hand to see the reality of the situation and he failed or refused to do so. I'm disappointed in RG3 as well. But the buck for this stops with the coach. I so want to be done with this team. It's just not worth the frustration. Had I not gone through the SB years and continue to feel the pull of that excitement, I'd walk away. I may just yet depending on the outcome of all this. I can't stand being sucked back in yet again only to blindsided by stupidity. I just can't let the strides made this year excuse this. We've suffered far to long under poor ownership and poor coaching.
 

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I tend to agree with Goaldeje's post above me. I too would have pulled him after the 9 yard run. As for the long term. Griffin doesn't play until he's fully recovered.... Cousins is the starter.
I have one issue with Mike Shannahan that troubles me...He comes across as a bald faced liar in a few of these situations. The Dr Andrews situation, Mcnabb being benched for not knowing the 2 minute offense...the severity of his Rg3's injury etc. Albert Haynesworth.
Have you guys ever met anyone that will just lie when the truth sounds better? Other than that they are Joe Average. I get keeping things close to the vest and manipulating the media for a strategic advantage but Shanny goes beyond that imho.
Griffin is a natural born leader and one hell of a qb. He's also human and only 22 yrs old. I think the future is still bright for him and the Skins but he needs to develop a more complete gameplan that doesn't require his running the ball so frequently. Better Oline play would help. The Skins need to upgrade the wr. position. Way too many catchable balls dropped on Sunday. I blame that factor more than anything for the loss. I really don't like Hankerson his arms get really short when he runs across the middle. Morgan isn't much better.
 

Ax

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Don't give a flying **** what players, coaches, former or current, spew about being a warrior.

After Griffin caused his own injury, by trying to stop and plant on that leg, and throw back across his body, instead of just running out of bounds, he looked closer to a horse who had a broken leg dangling in the breeze, than he did to the guy who started the game.

Stevie Wonder could see it.

Shamahan failed his team, his quarterback, and himself, by looking with his eyes closed.

And, with the missed Garçon diagnosis, I'm not completely confident that these Bozo's didn't miss these partial tears after the Turdbird game.

All that said, I can't wait for next season. Where I'll be looking forward to winning our division again, and trying to get home field advantage, as well.

Be it Griffin, or Cousins, leading the way.
 

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