ESPN Rick Reilly: Top 20 NFL Coaches

[DieselPwr44]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/greatestcoachreilly/my-top-20-nfl-coaches

2. Joe Gibbs -- OK, here's where you start throwing shoes. But it goes back to quarterbacks. Nobody has ever come close to doing what Gibbs did, which is win three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks, none of whom are in the Hall of Fame. That's like crossing the Pacific in a Little Mermaid floatie.

Sounds about right to me.

 

[Beans]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/greatestcoachreilly/my-top-20-nfl-coaches



Sounds about right to me.

Way too low. #1 all the way. 3 Super Bowl victories with 3 different QBs. I doubt a coach ever bests that, let alone replicates it.

Gibbs is the greatest. There is no doubt in my mind. I was only a kid when the Skins were great, but I do remember them just beating the brakes off the competition. The '91 Skins is possibly the greatest sports team ever assembled. Total domination.

 

[Henry]

#2 is pretty darn good. I have a hard time putting him ahead of the guy the actual championship trophy is named after.

Honestly, as the QB becomes more and more important, Gibbs is going to look better and better in retrospect. I've seen a lot of lists like this, and I don't think I've ever seen Gibbs at #2. He's usually around 5th behind Walsh and a couple other guys.

 

[Henry]

15. George Allen -- Would've been a great general. He'd find a way to beat you if all he had was two right tackles and a spatula. Never had a losing season. Won 71 percent of the time. OK, so it never happened for him in the playoffs. Sue.

Love that quote.

19. Ray Flaherty -- Don't start with me. Just because he coached before Netflix doesn't mean he wasn't great. Invented the screen pass. Invented situational substitution. Won two NFL titles and a bunch of division titles in the All-America Football Conference (AAFC), which was a very big deal despite TMZ never having heard of it.

Three Redskin coaches. Four if you count Lombardi.

Not bad. Not bad at all.

 

[DieselPwr44]

#4 is a cheater...period.

Oh, and if he didn't have Brady, he'd have had crap.

But, I guess if you can get your opponents' signals before big games, that makes you worthy of being in the top 5?

Move him to 30 or something.

Never held Spygate against Belichick.

George Allen had spies everywhere and even went as far as having tunnel doors open on whichever end the opponent was trying to kick.

Heck, Buges even admitted once to trying to steal hand signals from the other side.

Anything to get an edge. Just the nature of the game.

 

[Taylor 36]

Never held Spygate against Belichick.

George Allen had spies everywhere and even went as far as having tunnel doors open on whichever end the opponent was trying to kick.

Heck, Buges even admitted once to trying to steal hand signals from the other side.

Anything to get an edge. Just the nature of the game.

I have to agree. People try to make it out to be such a huge deal, but the truth of the matter is that there were a lot of teams doing it.

Belicheck, IMO, should get more credit than he does as a coach. Parcells is made out to be a great coach, even got himself in canton, but he never did anything of note without Belicheck being on his staff. BB has done a lot without BP, though.

The same could be said PDF Shanny. The guy gets no respect because he won his SB rings with Elway and Young. The truth is that neither of those guys won without Shanny. Elway never won a playoff game without having Shanny be his QB coach, OC, or HC. Too many people fail to recognize that.

 

[burgold]

It's not just 3 different QBs and three different RBs. Joe Gibbs managed to take a Vinny assembled team to the playoffs twice... even winning a game. That turns out to be something that few coaches are capable of and in hindsight we see just how thin and ill designed those teams were.

To a degree, I wonder if Gibbs II was the answer to the question asked in 87. If Gibbs had a scab team and had to go up against the NFL for an entire year how would he do? I'm exagerating, but not entirely.

 

[Om]

Rick Reilly just ... gets it.

 

[Ax]

That's a fine list.

Though I would have Belicheat much lower. As much as this guy penalized Knoll after Bradshaw left, he completely missed the fact that before Brady, Bill was nothing. And if he's half as smart as some people give him credit for being, he will announce his retirement 5 minutes after Brady does.

Johnson is overrated coach too. I'd of put Shanny, or Parcells ahead of him.

 

[Henry]

I do find it funny that Reilly justifies putting Belichick so high because "How do you know Tom Brady would be Tom Brady anywhere else? He wasn't Tom Brady in college, was he?" and yet Walsh is lower because he had Montana, who wasn't exactly Joe Montana in college.

Seems weird that Belichick is the only coach who gets a pass for having an elite QB.

 

[Goaldeje]

My feelings on Belichick are pretty well documented (Anne the Fan, back me up? )

I think he's an arrogant prick who is vastly overrated by the media (a large contingent of the sports media just happens to reside a couple hundred miles from Gillette Stadium). He is a good coach, a very good coach even, but take Brady away and he is average.

Put it this way. Go ahead and give him Theismann, Williams and Rypien, and let's see how he does.

 

[KDawg]

Bill Belichick's finger prints are all over the game of football. He is without a doubt one of the greatest coaches to ever step foot on a football field at any level.

In Cleveland, he's always given a hard time for having a losing overall record, but analyze that record for a second.

6-10 in his first year there. 7-9, 7-9 in his next two. 11-5 and a play off win in his 4th year. Going into his fifth year, he had the Browns in a place where they were considered to be Super Bowl favorites, and then the owner of the Browns decided that he would announce, before the season began, the move to Baltimore. Under those circumstances, going even 5-11 should be a testament to him, though I'm sure he'd disagree with that assessment. He was then fired and didn't catch on to another head coaching gig until 2000 with the Pats.

He is currently the longest tenured head coach in the NFL.

Belichick assistants who have gone on to become NFL head coaches?

Romeo Crennel, Al Groh, Josh McDaniels, Eric Mangini, Nick Saban and Jim Schwartz. You haven't seen many of those names make huge waves, but all of them were given head coaching positions due to their high level of football acumen, which Belichick undoubtedly had a part in.

Belichick assistants who went on to become NCAA head coaches?

Kirk Ferentz, Al Groh, Pat Hill, Bill O'Brien, Nick Saban, Charlie Weis, Kliff Kingsbury, Pete Mangurian.

All Saban did was win MULTIPLE national titles, and Bill O'Brien is turning around a program that was in need of a crash cart in Penn State.

Belichick assistants or executives that went on to other positions?

Jeff Davidson, Thomas Dimitrioff, John Mitchell, Ozzie Newsome, Scott Pioli, Joel Collier, Mike Tannenbaum, Brian Daboll, Rob Ryan, Brad Seely, Phil Savage, Jim Bates, Chuck Bresnahan, Dean Pees.

He's adapted the Erhardt-Perkins offensive scheme to completely fit his personnel and take advantage of a tremendous quarterback in Tom Brady. He's also helped to mold the Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 scheme and made it compatable with being a 4-3 scheme.

There is no one better in the NFL to adapting to their personnel than Bill Belichick. And there's a reason for it. His intelligence.

Ask any coach who has ever worked under him, some of whom I HAVE asked personally, and they'll tell you that he may be the greatest football mind of all time. Bill O'Brien is one of the men I've spoken with. I've also read Nick Saban's book, and it's evident that Belichick had a profound impact on his coaching philosophies and schemes.

Belichick is not overrated. I don't understand the logic of anyone who says so. In fact, it's completely illogical to suggest so.

Saying "take Brady away" and he's average is silly. Take Montana and Young away from Walsh. Take RG3 and Elway away from Shanahan. Not many coaches will do what Gibbs did, and Gibbs did it well. He found guys that fit his needs and committed to them. He used his Air Coryell system in conjunction with his smashmouth run game to really aide him, and he adapted, especially in his first run, better than anyone in football.

But don't discount Belichick because he doesn't have many Super Bowl winning quarterbacks. He hasn't needed that many. Gibbs only did it out of necessity. If Gibbs had ONE guy, he would have used ONE guy.

In my biased opinion, Gibbs is the greatest coach of all time, even better than Lombardi and Walsh. But Belichick is NOT far behind.

 

[Goaldeje]

Sorry KDawg, I just don't agree. And you're probably right, though I will add that his assistant's tree is meaningless to me. By that logic, Parcells should be considered the GOAT, right? Because he had Bellichick under him and developed him.

Fact is, the guy cheated, and was handed a gift from the football gods in the form of Tom Brady. An average coach might well have won a SB with the 2003 Pats team. Look, I hate the guy, I will not apologize for that. I grew up watching the classiest winner in sports history in Joe Gibbs and I hate guys that are the opposite of that, and Bellicheat is certainly that. So that may well be tainting my view of him. Gibbs is absolutely at the top for me, not just for the SB wins, not just for the 3 different QBs, but also for the way in which he won. He was (and is) a guy I am PROUD to point out to my kids as an example of how to win and lose, and to me, that counts a lot. If I ever point out Belicheat, it's as an example of what not to do. And as the father of a son in Youth Baseball who is struggling with how to react after a loss, having someone like Joe Gibbs to point to as an example is pretty awesome.

So if you're basing the best coach of all time on coaching acumen alone, then yeah, the dude probably belongs pretty high on any list. But if you take in to account other, more intangible aspects (which are difficult to measure but nonetheless incredibly important), Belichick can't hold Gibbs' jock.

Not in the same ZIP code, my man.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Well, that was probably the best-worded, well-evidenced argument I've ever seen on a message board! Well done, KDawg! But **** Bill Belicheat! LOL. My opinion of him isn't based on logic, its based on pure, unadulterated hatred. I do respect his football acumen though.

Seriously though, I think Belichik is pretty great defensive mind. He inherited a lot of his key personnel on that side of the ball from Parcells though. I will say that Vince Wilfork is one of the better NTs the NFL has ever seen, and he's a Belichik guy.

(EDIT: typo, wrote Parcells meant Belichik)

Also impressive that Ozzie Newsome was a Belichik disciple - I did not know that. Also impressive.

While I think that Bill got incredibly lucky with the selection of Brady, the 'take away Brady' argument is kind of silly - its very hard to win a superbowl without a marquee signal caller; take away the majority of QBs from superbowl-winning teams, and they probably don't win them as you said. Its a symbiotic relationship to be sure - a great QB will make his head coach look good, and vice versa.

 

[KDawg]

Sorry KDawg, I just don't agree.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion.

his assistant's tree is meaningless to me. By that logic, Parcells should be considered the GOAT, right? Because he had Bellichick under him and developed him.

Not necessarily, no. Assistant trees general mean you had an impact on that coach, but you certainly didn't make the coach. Saying it's meaningless is a bit overboard, though. It has merit. Each of those men were talented as it was, Belichick helped them to excel.

Fact is, the guy cheated, and was handed a gift from the football gods in the form of Tom Brady.

Was it a gift from the Gods or excellent scouting/development? *shrug*

Look, I hate the guy, I will not apologize for that.

You don't have to, but this is an obvious point based on how you view him as a coach.

So if you're basing the best coach of all time on coaching acumen alone, then yeah, the dude probably belongs pretty high on any list.

Agreed.

But if you take in to account other, more intangible aspects (which are difficult to measure but nonetheless incredibly important), Belichick can't hold Gibbs' jock.

Not in the same ZIP code, my man.

I did say that Gibbs was my number one, didn't I?

 

[KDawg]

If we are going by "trees" then Walsh is the greatest. Walsh is the greatest because even without Montana he would have gotten one. Those teams were stacked on both sides of the ball from top to bottom. Just the hall of famers alone lets you know.

Plus he invented the "west coast offense" that is still used to this day.

No one said we were going solely on coaching trees, did they? It's a combination of accomplishment, acumen, teaching ability and overall development of a program and players. Belichick is among the best in the department.

A good, compelling argument could be made for Walsh to be above Belichick. The West Coast Offense alone is a compelling thought. Not to mention the fact that Belichick himself would probably say Walsh was the greatest of all time. Belichick studied Walsh's offense to try to get a handle on passing games.

For the record, the basis of the modern day scouting schemes were developed by Steve Belichick, Bill's father.

 

[SkinsFanMania]

Never held Spygate against Belichick.

George Allen had spies everywhere and even went as far as having tunnel doors open on whichever end the opponent was trying to kick.

Heck, Buges even admitted once to trying to steal hand signals from the other side.

Anything to get an edge. Just the nature of the game.

Stealing signals during the game and videotaping prior to the game isn't even close in comparison.

 

[Goaldeje]

You're certainly entitled to that opinion.



Not necessarily, no. Assistant trees general mean you had an impact on that coach, but you certainly didn't make the coach. Saying it's meaningless is a bit overboard, though. It has merit. Each of those men were talented as it was, Belichick helped them to excel.

Perhaps not meaningless, but damned close, imo. If your previously stated argument was that my argument that taking Brady away from Belichick was dumb (or something to that effect - I know you didn't say "dumb", I'm simplifying), then isn't the argument used to bolster Belichick by using his Assistants also dumb ))? Belichick hasn't won a SB in a decade now, so if I wasn't terribly lazy, I would go look up his assistants during their SB runs and argue that perhaps his success was more due to Romeo and Charlie than Bill (look at that... I bounced back).

Was it a gift from the Gods or excellent scouting/development? *shrug*

Given that EVERY team in the league passed on Brady multiple times, including the Pats, I'm gonna go ahead and attribute it to the football gods.

You don't have to, but this is an obvious point based on how you view him as a coach.

Absolutely, and I acknowledge that freely. I hate the guy, and would be devastated if Snyder ever brought him on board. I don't actually know what I would do.

I did say that Gibbs was my number one, didn't I?

Yes! I absolutely agree with you there! I just don't think BB is rated properly in Reilly's list, that's all.

 

[Califan007]

Given that EVERY team in the league passed on Brady multiple times, including the Pats, I'm gonna go ahead and attribute it to the football gods.

Not to mention that Brady only started due to Bledsoe being injured...it wasn't as if Belichick immediately saw some vast improvement with Brady and benched Bledsoe because of it.

 

[pjfootballer]

I was genuinely surprised that Reilly had him at #2. Most of our SB teams don't get the respect they deserve. Just look at the 1991 team ranked #14 all time in the America's Game series. Without going over all the stats that we have all know about, that team was a force on all 3 sides of the ball (offense, defense, special teams).

I'm waiting to see what NFL Network or is it ESPN will come up with for Gibbs in terms of rank. Probably in the teens.