Does Matt Flynn's demise de-value Cousins ?

[Fear The Spear]

Before Flynn got his big contract, he had more game experience than Cousins.
So when Flynn flopped in his next three cities, that has to have teams seriously hesitating about offering anything substantial for basically a one-game wonder like Cousins.
A lot of people around here seem to think we can easily get a 1st for Cousins.
But teams have to be more gun-shy about giving up that much for such a player, after seeing how meaningless Flynn's 2 game audition turned out to be, no ?

 

[SilentThreat]

I don't know if I ever thought he was worth a 1st round, but I do think he has value. I personally am not in the camp of trade him... yet. I want him here because hes as capable as any back up out there. He's also come out and said he 'understands his role with the team' and he's apparently embracing it. I do see what you're saying that teams who might have considered giving up a 3rd for him, might be a little tighter to the vest... possibly using the Flynn situation more for leverage against the Redskins, if that particular situation comes up down the road.

 

[Goaldeje]

One more year, then explore. More than likely, he will have played a game or two more, and certainly will have some more preseason reps under his belt. Not sure we get a first, but would be surprised if we can't get a second. Think of how desperate teams are (read: us, before last year) to get a franchise QB, or even a mirage of a franchise QB. Someone will bite.

 

[Henry]

Maybe, but it shouldn't.

It's not like Flynn is the first backup to have a good game or two, only to move on to another city and completely flop. Kevin Kolb, Matt Cassel, Scott Mitchell ... It happens as often as it doesn't.

I've got nothing against Cousins. I like the kid, but we've been over-estimating his value for a long time here in DC. So far all we know is that he's a solid backup. That's it.

 

[tshile]

The QB position is such a position of need in this league that the only thing that will devalue Cousins is his own play.

In an objective world is Cousins a 1st round product? Well, basic reasoning says he was drafted in the 4th round when 32 teams had a shot at him every round and he's done decently well in a few games where he's filled in, or even started. He did well - he wasn't a pro bowler but he did what he needed to do. He'll have 3 years under Mike Shanahan which most people would consider a good thing for a young growing QB. So no, he shouldn't bring a 1st round pick based on that. I don't even see how you could justify a 2nd.

In the real world, where the NFL takes flyers on QB's on a regular basis with absurd money or a high draft pick, he could bring back every bit of a 1st round pick. Maybe even an additional one. Look at how many picks we gave up for Griffin.

2013 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

37 QB's have thrown 100 or more passes this year. Look over that list and see how many people you'd take a chance on Cousins over. For me there's quite a few of them.

Someone will give up plenty for Cousins, if the timing is right. The problem is we're not in a position to let him go.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I think the fact that teams like Green Bay are willing to trot out the Seneca Wallaces and Scott (Mark?) Tolziens of the world and teams like Minnesota stick with Ponder and Caslte & sign Josh Freeman, are evidence that we value Cousins more than they do. I doubt we'd get much more than a 2nd or 3rd in trade for Cousins at this point, no matter how well he played in two games, unfortunately.

 

[SilentThreat]

I think the fact that teams like Green Bay are willing to trot out the Seneca Wallaces and Scott (Mark?) Tolziens of the world and teams like Minnesota stick with Ponder and Caslte & sign Josh Freeman, are evidence that we value Cousins more than they do. I doubt we'd get much more than a 2nd or 3rd in trade for Cousins at this point, no matter how well he played in two games, unfortunately.

I don't know if players are even eligible for trade, after their first season, and we don't know if those teams contacted us about him. The trade deadline passed before Aaron Rodgers went down.


Edit: I guess a player can be traded at any time unless the new CBA did something to change that, hence the reason Eli ended up a Giant. Still, Green Bay wouldn't have made a play for him because they weren't exactly counting on Rodgers going down, and they aren't going to trade for a back up

 

[Henry]

Someone will give up plenty for Cousins, if the timing is right. The problem is we're not in a position to let him go.

Why not?

We're 3-6. We're most likely gonna finish around 6-10. Maybe 8-8 if everything falls right.

A team like that can't afford to trade it's backup QB?

 

[SilentThreat]

Why not?

We're 3-6. We're most likely gonna finish around 6-10. Maybe 8-8 if everything falls right.

A team like that can't afford to trade it's backup QB?

we cant trade him at all.... deadline was 2 weeks ago.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I don't know if players are even eligible for trade, after their first season, and we don't know if those teams contacted us about him. The trade deadline passed before Aaron Rodgers went down.

Edit: I guess a player can be traded at any time unless the new CBA did something to change that, hence the reason Eli ended up a Giant. Still, Green Bay wouldn't have made a play for him because they weren't exactly counting on Rodgers going down, and they aren't going to trade for a back up

Good point, trade deadline passed already. Trades are allowed after free agency begins again until the in-season trade deadline, I think (RE: The Eli trade).

 

[tshile]

Why not?

We're 3-6. We're most likely gonna finish around 6-10. Maybe 8-8 if everything falls right.

A team like that can't afford to trade it's backup QB?

Because I don't think there's any confidence in Griffin's ability to stay healthy.

If we trade him we're back to Rex Grossman. Shanahan's at the end of his contract. He's not going to risk that.

(which is why there's a interesting conversation about whether your HC should also be your GM, but it's for another time I suppose )

 

[Henry]

we cant trade him at all.... deadline was 2 weeks ago.

Yes I know. I suspect Fear was talking about this offseason.

Because I don't think there's any confidence in Griffin's ability to stay healthy.

If we trade him we're back to Rex Grossman. Shanahan's at the end of his contract. He's not going to risk that.

My point is that if we are mediocre WITH Griffin, why are we gnashing our teeth at the prospect of being without him? This team has a lot of holes and no first round pick. If we can get that pick back, or even a 2nd or 3rd, for a backup QB we should do it. Backup QB is a relatively easy position to fill.

 

[Boone]

I agree with Henry. Only a team contending should be overly concerned about holding on to a capable backup QB.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Gotta agree with the MODS. We are pretty far from contending, and have some serious holes to fill. This draft is supposedly another really deep one, so we should be aiming for as many picks as possible, and hope Shanny doesn't draft another 12 RBs.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

I think we should keep Cousin Kirk around for as long as possible. Having a very good backup is now becoming obvious to a few teams out there - Philly, Houston, Green Bay, Buffalo, New York J, Cleveland, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, Oakland, Arizona, Chicago, and St. Louis can tell you about how important it is to have a capable backup. Most of those teams have fared poorly and very few have done well.

Cousin Kirk needs experience and can get what is needed when a game is decided long before it is actually over or with any injury. In the long run, he can be our Earl Morrall and Don Strock (ask the old Miami Dolphins what it meant to have long term solutions at QB for more than fifteen years).

However, there is one caveat. If by chance we are offered a first rounder, you take it. We can trade down and pick up three or four extra choices. Needs can be filled and the next Cousin Kirk can be easily drafted. Either way, it is a win-win. A long term need is there when needed or many needs are met and the next quality backup is drafted.

 

[tshile]

My point is that if we are mediocre WITH Griffin, why are we gnashing our teeth at the prospect of being without him? This team has a lot of holes and no first round pick. If we can get that pick back, or even a 2nd or 3rd, for a backup QB we should do it. Backup QB is a relatively easy position to fill.

You, Boone, and Lanky all make great points.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I think we should keep Cousin Kirk around for as long as possible. Having a very good backup is now becoming obvious to a few teams out there - Philly, Houston, Green Bay, Buffalo, New York J, Cleveland, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, Oakland, Arizona, Chicago, and St. Louis can tell you about how important it is to have a capable backup. Most of those teams have fared poorly and very few have done well.

Cousin Kirk needs experience and can get what is needed when a game is decided long before it is actually over or with any injury. In the long run, he can be our Earl Morrall and Don Strock (ask the old Miami Dolphins what it meant to have long term solutions at QB for more than fifteen years).

However, there is one caveat. If by chance we are offered a first rounder, you take it. We can trade down and pick up three or four extra choices. Needs can be filled and the next Cousin Kirk can be easily drafted. Either way, it is a win-win. A long term need is there when needed or many needs are met and the next quality backup is drafted.

Right...back up QB is important; but fielding a competitive squad is more important. As Henry said, if we are mediocre WITH Griffin in there, what does it matter who is backing him up? We'll only get worse if Griffin goes down, no matter who (Grossman or Cousins) is behind center. With our pass-pro, they are both sitting ducks. Use the draft pick(s) acquired to shore up the holes on the OL, or add a bonafide NT to the DLine. Those things are of more value to our team right now then back up QB is.

A backup QB is not that hard to find, and any backup QB we field will be infinitely more successful if we can keep him upright.

 

[Bulldog]

No, my understanding is that Flynn injured his shoulder and his arm strength has been diminished over the past two seasons despite rehab and rest.

Cousins is healthy and has a better arm than Flynn ever did.

He also seems to have leadership qualities which we have not seen from Flynn, Kolb or a number of these former backups that teams brought in to start.

 

[Neophyte]

Lots of flops mentioned here. For every backup who went somewhere else and flopped there is a backup who went somewhere and flourished.

Brett Favre - traded by Atlanta to GB for a 1st round pick
Matt Schaub - traded by Atlanta to Houston for 2 2nds
Mark Brunell - traded by GB to Jacksonville for a 3rd and a 5th
Stan Humphries - traded by Washington to San Diego for a 3rd

It's a roll of the dice and all it takes is one team who thinks a guy is worth something.

 

[Goaldeje]

I think we should keep Cousin Kirk around for as long as possible. Having a very good backup is now becoming obvious to a few teams out there - Philly, Houston, Green Bay, Buffalo, New York J, Cleveland, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, Oakland, Arizona, Chicago, and St. Louis can tell you about how important it is to have a capable backup. Most of those teams have fared poorly and very few have done well.

To be fair, with the exception of Green Bay, Buffalo, Chicago and MAYBE St Louis, those same teams can not tell you what having a capable starter is like.