2011 San Francisco 49ers

[Elephant]

I just want to clarify something. I am not trying to establish an "either/or" on the Singletary was bad/Harbaugh is good question. I'm saying that the change from a 6-10 to a 13-3 record is most likely the result of a combination of inept coaching by Singletary and good coaching by Harbaugh.

Right, good coaching by Harbaugh which is what I have been saying all along.

 

[Elephant]

El, I challenge you to find where I said that Jim Harbaugh will not be considered as a great coach at some point. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Let's see what happens.

Again, you're being coy. Now it is getting to the point of being childish.

Edit: If you want me to go through the progression of your inference I will.

1.) I started this thread to say that Jim Harbaugh is a damn good coach.

2.) You chime in to say we should wait and see before I make such an assertion.

3.) I say there is no need to wait and see, he has proven it by taking a bad team full of individual talent and given them an opportunity to go to the Super Bowl.

4.) Again, you say I need to take a wait and see approach.

5.) I say he has a very solid record in college which supports my assertion that coming into the NFL, taking a 6-10 team to a 13-3 regular season record, then earning a spot in the NFC Championship game where they will play for a chance to advance to the Super Bowl makes him a good coach.

There is the progression of this back and forth so I will repeat myself for the last time!

There is no need to wait and see! He has already proven he is a good coach.

Now, you can continue to challenge me, but don't insult my intelligence buy acting like you're not playing games here.

Instead, prove to me why we should take a wait and see approach before making the claim that Jim Harbaugh is a Damn good coach! He has shown at all levels he is!

 

[Fear The Spear]

Jim Harbaugh sounds like the Tim Tebow of coaching.

No respect, no respect, no matter what he does right

 

[Burgundy Burner]

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. In time, I may agree 100% with your assessment. For now, I am willing to wait. I have no problem with you thinking that I am wrong to take a wait and see approach. That's how I roll.

 

[Elephant]

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. In time, I may agree 100% with your assessment. For now, I am willing to wait. I have no problem with you thinking that I am wrong to take a wait and see approach. That's how I roll.

It's illogical. The facts support the exact opposite and when the coach of the year honors are posted, I would imagine his name will be on top of the list.

You could challenge my assertion if I had said something as far fetched as Jim Harbaugh is going to the Hall of Fame! But I didn't.

You're reaching! But you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Truth be told, he will win coach of the year honors. There is no other choice out there who is worthy of the honor. He's off to a great start.

 

[Boone]

Why start the thread if you didn't want a conversation on the topic? Just sayin'

 

[Elephant]

Why start the thread if you didn't want a conversation on the topic? Just sayin'

Come on Boone, my assertion was not challenged respectfully by BB like serv did.

I was not saying he is a Hall of Fame coach. I was simply stating he was a damn good one and has proven to be. The record shows as much.

BB asserted that I suggested he was a Hall of Fame candidate when he said this, "Let's give him a few years before his bust in Canton is displayed in our minds."

It was a subtle jab and it is an illogical line of thinking based on what I said.

Challenge me all you want, many have and I appreciate it because it makes me to do some work. This is nothing more than an attack. And since we have come to a disagreement about RGIII, he has thrown several subtle jabs that I have politely asked in some cases that he refrain from doing.

 

[Goaldeje]

My very limited impressions tell me that Harbaugh is a HELL of a motivator. Not sure about X's and O's, and I wonder if he will have staying power. Motivators tend to grow stale a little faster than the strategery guys.

But he has had an unbelievable years. If he puts together a game plan to stop the Giants. well, color me impressed.

 

[servumtuum]

My very limited impressions tell me that Harbaugh is a HELL of a motivator. Not sure about X's and O's, and I wonder if he will have staying power. Motivators tend to grow stale a little faster than the strategery guys.

But he has had an unbelievable years. If he puts together a game plan to stop the Giants. well, color me impressed.

Interesting that you should bring the impending 49ers/Giants game which I think will be a very interesting one to watch. A lot of what happened with Green Bay I attribute to the Giants being a bad matchup for Green Bay-remember they struggled mightily to eke out a win against the Giants in their first meeting. We were a bad matchup for the Giants this season and likewise they were a bad matchup for the Packers.

 

[Nobody]

Brian, I understand your point, and you're right - he has proven to this point to be a solid head coach overall. But I see BB's point too - success in college and a solid start in the NFL doesn't mean squat this early on, and it will take time to see if he's an NFL caliber coach. A lot of what he did in college was with guys who had been recruited before he even arrived.

I think the main point BB is trying to make is to wait a few years until Harbaugh has a team that he didn't inherit before saying he's a damn good coach, which is completely understandable.

I personally don't believe 13-3 can be that much of a fluke when you consider who they've beaten this season, but time will tell. He could be the next Jim Mora Jr, or he could be the next Sean Payton. I think what you aren't seeing is that BB is saying he is a damn good coach, but not on all levels yet, which you were making a statement about after only 1 season on this level. He was a damn good college coach, and so far it looks like he might be a damn good NFL coach, but if he goes 4-12 next year, then what? Not that it would matter much, since even damn good coaches have a bad season here and there unless their name is Don Shula.

 

[Elephant]

No Ex, he did not say what you are suggesting he said until his last post. In his first post he introduced a new idea, one that was not suggested by anyone in anyway in this thread.

He said, "Let's give him a few years before his bust in Canton is displayed in our minds." I did not say we should get him a bust! This was BB's subtle dig. He hands them out often and they often go unnoticed!

Harbaugh inherited talent that had gone 6-10 so the "inherited a solid team" argument is moot since that talent had been a very poor team the year before, as bad as we were and we were just bad.

I never suggested Jim Harbaugh was the second coming of Bill Walsh in San Francisco. All I have been saying from the very beginning is the man is a damn good coach. He has proven as much, just look at his history as a coach.

 

[Fear The Spear]

I think the 9ers are the only team this year worthy of winning the Super Bowl.

The Pats are completely one-sided with no defense.
The Ravens are completely one-sided with no offense.
The Giants are obviously inconsistent.

That leaves the 9ers as the most complete, and consistent team.

I'm not necessarily predicting that they win it.
Just that they have earned it more than anyone.

 

[Nobody]

No Ex, he did not say what you are suggesting he said until his last post. In his first post he introduced a new idea, one that was not suggested by anyone in anyway in this thread.

He said, "Let's give him a few years before his bust in Canton is displayed in our minds." I did not say we should get him a bust! This was BB's subtle dig. He hands them out often and they often go unnoticed!

Harbaugh inherited talent that had gone 6-10 so the "inherited a solid team" argument is moot since that talent had been a very poor team the year before, as bad as we were and we were just bad.

I never suggested Jim Harbaugh was the second coming of Bill Walsh in San Francisco. All I have been saying from the very beginning is the man is a damn good coach. He has proven as much, just look at his history as a coach.

Oh, I see what you're saying. I had to go back and see the post you're talking about, but I see what you're saying.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Im rooting for Alex Smith to prove the critics wrong and he is a SD boy.

Im rooting for Vernon Davis for the Maryland factor

Im rooting for Patrick Willis for the fact that the dude is a beast

Im rooting for Justin Smith because he is finally kicking some serious ass.

but I will NOT root for Carlos Rogers.

So if SF is crowned SB champs, but Carlos drops 4 "sure" INT's in the game, including 2 Pick 6's, you'll be happy ?

 

[Nobody]

I'll root twice as hard for Carlos to balance the undeserved hate he gets. You can't fault a guy who is likely the best cover corner in the league right now for thinking he was worth more money, rather than taking a pay cut. When you have an inept coordinator trying to coach you in a scheme that doesn't fit your talents, you're being set up for mediocrity. If anything, Harbaugh has proven that it was most definitely not Carlos that was the problem.

As for Alex Smith, I doubt if I will ever be able to cheer for the kid. He came into the league with nothing but potential, and loads of praise were dumped on him pretty much immediately. Everyone was saying he would turn the franchise around, and instead he has been put in the position that Joe Flacco has - being on a good team at the right time, and being just good enough to not lose half the games by himself. There's just something off about him. I'm not quite sure what it is, but it could just be that he's a product of the West Coast. I can't ever see him being a legitimate top flight QB, I just don't think he has it, or ever will have it. One thing that is certain for now, is that he's probably the best gap filler in the league at the position. I mean seriously, they could have done a lot worse and got stuck with a Trent Dilfer.

I'm sure I'm in the minority of Redskins fans that thought it was a huge mistake to let Carlos get away. He got a bad reputation for his butter fingers, but he shut guys down. There is so much more to the position than just intercepting passes. Whether through an INT, or through deflecting a pass on 3rd down to make the opponent punt, the fact is he did his job. In fact, he did it excessively better than the current crop of over hyped, egotistical flakes we have in our secondary now.

I was glad to see that after he got the shaft, he went somewhere with a coach who was smart enough to let him use his skills the way they should be used, and continue to play at an elite level. I said it when we screwed him, and I will continue to say it until I am proven wrong - we screwed up by letting Carlos walk.

People dogged him all the time for dropping INTs, but who cares? He almost never got scored on, and rarely, if ever, gave up a big play. He was so good at shutting the WR down with his coverage, that QBs rarely ever even considered throwing in his direction. He was a weapon for us on defense, because he was always able to take away the first or second option that every QB had, which made the job of the rest of the defense a lot easier.

I'll tell you one thing, I would trade the entire crop of worthless sacks we have in our secondary now to get him back. Especially DeAngelo Hall. All he is is an egotistical, sub-par midget corner who thinks he's 6'5" tall and plays the position better than the rest of the league. He misses more tackles per game going after the ball when he has no angle, than Carlos dropped picks in an entire season. Yet, so many people still adore the guy and praise his abilities. DeAngelo Hall doesn't have half the talent he thinks he does, and it will be a happy day for me when he's no longer on the team.

Alex Smith sucks, Carlos Rogers doesn't.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Harbaugh inherited a great defense (including all-world MLB Pat Willis), and knocked his first-round pick out of the park with Aldon Smith. Carlos apparently got contact lenses in the offseason, which is a little infuriating to me. All he needed was contacts? And nobody on our staff thought that might be a problem? WTF? Harbaugh gets a little credit for the D's performance, but Singletary had most of it in place.

I think the key to what Harbaugh has done (and what his predecessors were never able to do) was find out how to get Alex Smith to be a useful QB. Harbaugh tailored his system to Smith's strengths, and Alex responded with a year good enough to get a big-time contract extension.

As far as Harbaugh already proving he's a great coach, I think bringing along Alex Smith was a huge step in the right direction. However don't get carried away and put him in the hall of fame just yet - one year ago people were talking about Raheem Morris as the next great coach and this year reports are he "lost the team" and the Bucs went into a freefall (with essentially the same roster). Now if the 49ers win the superbowl this year there is no question, but if they lose to the Giants this week (or NE/Bal in 3 weeks) and they sputter next year? Well, I'm with BB. We should reserve judgement.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

undeserved hate for carlos rogers coming from a redskins fan...thats rich.

Who's hating on Carlos? He's thriving in a new situation, after an offseason of very little opportunity. More power to him - he wasn't gonna get re-signed here, that's for sure. He was always a good cover corner here, he just couldn't catch a cold.

I'm just upset that he apparently had poor vision, and nobody on the Redskins staff thought that might be an issue.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

umm..I wasnt talking about you but the post right above yours. Rogers got all the hate he deserved when he was here in Washington and we have every right to still dislike the guy with the nickname "hands of stone" who now cant seem to drop anything.

Oh okay, I misunderstood your post. My bad.

 

[Neophyte]

no worries..if he was able to catch the ball here and we let him go Id have no hate..but its like he decided to play a real CB in SF.

And maybe he is finally getting good coaching in SF, Mike.