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Luck vs. RGIII?

Which QB do you WANT under center in 2012?

  • Andrew Luck

    Votes: 4 9.8%

  • Robert Griffin III

    Votes: 37 90.2%
  • Total voters
    41
Extreme said:
That article seems to confirm my biggest fears - that the Colts will draft Griffin, we will be stuck with Luck, and RG3 will wind up as the better of the two.

The reporter can twist it any way he wants to try to ease the pain of fans like me who want to see Griffin here instead of Luck, but seriously.....did anyone read that and not immediately think Irsay was being pretty obvious that he is more enamored by Griffin than Luck? He gets excited about Griffin, but when pressed about Luck, he seems to respond in a way that feels like he's thinking oh yeah, that guy - he's ok too I guess.

Honestly, I think I might cry if they call Griffin first at the draft.
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Why would you care which QB is better, as long as the one who comes here wins?

I don't care which of the 2 is more successful as long as the QB who ends up in Washington wins a lot of games for a long time, perhaps a Super Bowl or two along the way.

Eli has more Super Bowls than Peyton, who would you rather have?
 
Neophyte said:
Ryman, perhaps you are providing evidence against yourself here with your argument about Griffin. I mean, the guys you mention in your last post not only didn't do anything in the NFL, they weren't ever really interesting to the NFL at all. Coaches and GMs looked at them and saw something so egregiously wrong that most never even got drafted.

The NFL doesn't appear to have the same misgivings about Griffin. In fact, that is so much the case that you had perhaps two of the best QB coaches and talent evaluators in the history of the league in a bidding war to get him. Surely that says something about him beyond the scope of your "Big 12 QBs suck" argument.

BTW - Harrel is currently on the Packers roster and Bomar (son of the coach that won a Texas state title with a team including my brother-in-law) is currently on the Raiders roster. Granted, my guess is it will take an act of God for either to ever see the field but they are still hanging around the league so you never know.
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my point is that big 12 qbs play against bad defences and have inflated stats, those guys I mentioned had huge numbers and some didnt get drafted, a couple got drafted mid rounds,others very high (vince young?). what they all have in common is that they havent done anything in the NFL.

Lanky, seriously man do you read before you post? first off, thats not what you said when you started arguing with me for arguments sake, second off my entire point isnt just that the big 12 is a passing conference but that the defences (texas aside) are flat brutal against the pass and overall. that skews evaluations, dont forget, guys like Klingler and Ware put up massive numbers in weak conferences, fooled everyone and then sucked in the NFL. either way it doesnt matter we are now committed , I doubt Indy takes griffin but man I would stoked if they did lol

Oh and Lanky, for the record, this was your post to begin with, you didnt start admitting that the big 12 was a passing conference until the next page, this post refutes your assertions that you make later on, if you want to argue with me, at least be consistent in your wrongness.
Lanky Livingston said:
So because the Big 12 (a largely run first, run second, pass third only if the distance is greater than 10 yards, otherwise run third conference) hasn't produced a HOF QB, a generational talent like RG3 is going to fail?

Welp, can't argue with such SOUND, no-flaws reasoning like that!
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which wasnt my argument, my argument has far more to do with defences in the big 12 but that was why I said you were wrong, and you were and changed your entire argument a few posts later
 
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Rymanofthenorth said:
Oh and Lanky, for the record, this was your post to begin with, you didnt start admitting that the big 12 was a passing conference until the next page, this post refutes your assertions that you make later on, if you want to argue with me, at least be consistent in your wrongness.
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3 posts down from that one, brotha: http://www.bgobsession.com/showpost.php?p=118237&postcount=14

Although, I will admit that based on that post alone its not clear. I was assuming HOF QBs would have come from over a decade ago (when my assertion was correct), seeing as how it takes a little while to make a HOF career. I didn't think you honestly believed some QBs from the early 2000s should already be in the HOF... :)
 
I'll be honest, the safer pick would be Luck. I'm much more excited about RGIII though...which could potentially explain why I always get myself into so much trouble in Vegas :yes:
 
Elephant said:
Why would you care which QB is better, as long as the one who comes here wins?
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Because I don't like Luck, and I don't think he'll do as well as Griffin. If Luck played here for 20 years, and won a Super Bowl, it wouldn't bother you if Griffin went to Indy, only played a decade, but won 4 Super Bowls?

Elephant said:
Eli has more Super Bowls than Peyton, who would you rather have?
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Peyton, and it's not even close. I'm a member of the club that thinks you CAN spell elite without Eli. I think his 2 Lombardis give his resume more inflation than it deserves honestly.
 
This in an article today in the Indianapolis Star:

The Colts hold the first overall pick in the April 26-28 draft and will exercise it on one of two quarterbacks, Stanford's Andrew Luck or Baylor's Robert Griffin III. If Grigson knows which, he isn't saying.

The evaluation process, he said, is methodical, exhaustive and ongoing.

"We're going to use this process every minute up until the time we're on the clock," he said. "That's where I'm at."

Grigson said the Colts plan to soon bring in Luck for an individual workout. No such workout is scheduled with Griffin.
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Rymanofthenorth said:
my point is that big 12 qbs play against bad defences and have inflated stats, those guys I mentioned had huge numbers and some didnt get drafted, a couple got drafted mid rounds,others very high (vince young?). what they all have in common is that they havent done anything in the NFL.
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Question. How many Mid-American Conference QBs have amounted to anything, 'er prior to Rothlesburger that is? Up until that point I think Pennington and Leftwich were about the best to come out of that conference. So I suppose Steelers fans would say drafting him was a bad decision, too risky, huh?

I get your point about playing against inferior competition. However players get drafted from small schools all the time and many of them do pan out. If he were throwing to wide open receivers all the time I could see your point. However what I've seen of RG3 is that many, perhaps most of his passes are placed at a spot where even very good coverage wouldn't really matter. At the end of the day one can only trust what the film and other evaluation tools say. RG3 appears to have a skill set that translates well to the NFL, regardless of the level of competition.
 
Well, @LL56 (ES insider) as well as Lance Zerlein (Texans insider who was the first one to scoop Haynesworth to DC, and many other Texans-related insights) both believe that Luck to Indianapolis is a lock. I still think its gotta be a least partially in the air as they do their final film review and what not, but I think they'll take Luck in the end.
 
Yusuf06 said:
Question. How many Mid-American Conference QBs have amounted to anything, 'er prior to Rothlesburger that is? Up until that point I think Pennington and Leftwich were about the best to come out of that conference. So I suppose Steelers fans would say drafting him was a bad decision, too risky, huh?

I get your point about playing against inferior competition. However players get drafted from small schools all the time and many of them do pan out. If he were throwing to wide open receivers all the time I could see your point. However what I've seen of RG3 is that many, perhaps most of his passes are placed at a spot where even very good coverage wouldn't really matter. At the end of the day one can only trust what the film and other evaluation tools say. RG3 appears to have a skill set that translates well to the NFL, regardless of the level of competition.
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reaching on a late first rounder with a single pick = far less of a bust potential than spending 3 firsts and a second. small schools are one thing, as the competition is all pretty much equal, large conferences with skewed competition are very different.
 
I don't think the 11th pick qualifies as a "late" first rounder. As for the price, it's a question of whether we were willing to accept being an average team while waiting for another year in which a franchise QB somehow falls to the middle or latter part of the draft. Given the fact that the NFL is now a passing league and the new rookie salary structure, I don't see that happening again soon anyway. I think future drafts will end up looking something like last years' with a first round run on QBs, even the very average prospects.
 
Yusuf06 said:
Question. How many Mid-American Conference QBs have amounted to anything, 'er prior to Rothlesburger that is? Up until that point I think Pennington and Leftwich were about the best to come out of that conference. So I suppose Steelers fans would say drafting him was a bad decision, too risky, huh?

I get your point about playing against inferior competition. However players get drafted from small schools all the time and many of them do pan out. If he were throwing to wide open receivers all the time I could see your point. However what I've seen of RG3 is that many, perhaps most of his passes are placed at a spot where even very good coverage wouldn't really matter. At the end of the day one can only trust what the film and other evaluation tools say. RG3 appears to have a skill set that translates well to the NFL, regardless of the level of competition.
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It happens with players at all positions too. I mean, T.O. came out of the SoCon, and he will end up in the HOF. Conference means nothing, people make too much of it.
 
when it comes to elite qbs, it is, but roethlisberger as good as he is had some flaws. there are a lot of elite qbs who came after the first pick in the draft, however if your argument is that because our talent evaluation hasnt been great we needed an almost sure thing? I could accept that argument lol. I also agree that with qb now being cheaper due to the cap we will see more teams drafting them early.
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
conference means less than level of competition, and in the big 12 the defences have been brutal the past few years. it skews evaluation.
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You are really going to use this as a reason to want Luck over Griffin?

Have you taken a look at defense in the PAC12 lately? Let me help you out. The Big12 has one team ranked in the Top 50 for defense and that team is Texas at #11. The PAC12 has two teams in the Top 50, Cal at #26 and Stanford at #27.

That's it.

So both QBs played exactly one team with a defense in the Top 50 nationally and they were about equal in those contests. Griffin threw for 320 yards with 2 TD and an INT against UT while Luck threw for 257 with 2 TDs and an INT against CAL. They both won those games.

You want to talk about defense in one conference, you better talk about it everywhere and let's face it, right now only the SEC is playing really good defense.
 
Terry Bradshaw faced the same arguments when the Steelers chose a better known QB from Notre Dame (Terry Hanratty). Many fans knew that Bradshaw was going to be great, but others were saying that competition in Gulf States Conference would hurt him at the next level. Hanratty became a "never was" and Bradshaw collected four Lombardis on his way to the HOF.

In 1985, several wide receivers went in the first round - several were considered "no brainers" for stardom. Players like Al Toon (Wisconsin), Eddie Brown (Miami), and Jessie Hester (Florida St) were surefire superstars in the making. Some fans knew that the 49ers got a steal in Jerry Rice, but other fans were convinced that competition in the Southwestern Athletic Conference (SWAC) would keep him from being as good as the other three first round choices. Three Lombardis later and accolades that stretch for miles and miles - eh, he left the other three in the dust.

Tell me about conference competition again in about twelve to fifteen years.
 
Neophyte said:
You are really going to use this as a reason to want Luck over Griffin?

Have you taken a look at defense in the PAC12 lately? Let me help you out. The Big12 has one team ranked in the Top 50 for defense and that team is Texas at #11. The PAC12 has two teams in the Top 50, Cal at #26 and Stanford at #27.

That's it.

So both QBs played exactly one team with a defense in the Top 50 nationally and they were about equal in those contests. Griffin threw for 320 yards with 2 TD and an INT against UT while Luck threw for 257 with 2 TDs and an INT against CAL. They both won those games.

You want to talk about defense in one conference, you better talk about it everywhere and let's face it, right now only the SEC is playing really good defense.
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I have never said that any ONE thing was a good enough reason to not draft anyone, as I have maintained all along its the fact that there are so many warning signs that concern me. do players from weak conferences often play very well in the NFL? Has a qb from the big 12 ever played decently? yes Bradford, still rare. Have Qb's put up excellent numbers in college and then bombed in the NFL? yes not so rare.

Do I think 100% that Griffin will bust? no I am actually hopefully that he will join Newton as an exception to the rule. Would I have banked our next 5 years on one player? hell no.

some of you are ok with us swinging for the fences in year 2 of a rebuild, I remain wary, I would have vastly preferred to build our lines up with youth this and next season and THEN swing for the fences. the "once in a generation" line is used without fail every 2-3 years anyway. most recently on Bradford. Remember, Joey harrington was lauded coming out of college too, after getting shellshocked he is considered a huge bust.
 
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Enough with race being an issue

Are you really saying that RG3 will not be successful because he is black? Am I on an Colts fan forum or a Redskins fan forum? That's what I kept reading on the Colts forum. Main reason why I don't want RG3 to join the Colts.
 
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That is a line of discussion that we have pretty much put outlawed here, RG3_Fan. It just won't be tolerated.
 
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RG3 Fan said:
Are you really saying that RG3 will not be successful because he is black? Am I on an Colts fan forum or a Redskins fan forum? That's what I kept reading on the Colts forum. Main reason why I don't want RG3 to join the Colts.
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Thanks for posting this thought. It has been bothering me for the last half-hour or so.

Nothing else to add.
 
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