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Random Commanders Thoughts

Totally agree. We need to see major improvements on the field in the next 2 or 3 years. My only real argument is that sometimes teams catch lightning in a bottle, but the absence of that doesn't mean we are doomed. I'm not sure that the past 2 seasons for the Redskins equates to them 'doing it wrong' or 'organizational failure'. As fans, we tend to heap 25 years of mostly poor performance on the current regime. If we want to saddle Dan Snyder with it - I think that's fair. But even the hated Bruce Allen doesn't own the vast majority of that time. I like more of what I've seen over the past 4 seasons than I hate.

Kirk Cousins is an organizational failure, and a big one, regardless of what happens beyond now. We have not done 1 thing right with him as a player and that falls on this front office.

Since we won the Super Bowl, we have drafted 4 QBs in the 1st round.
1994 - Heath Shuler
2002 - Patrick Ramsey
2005 - Jason Campbell
2012 - RG3

That is an organizational failure. That falls a lot on Dan, but Bruce has been here since 2009, he's drafted 3 qbs in 9 seasons.

To compound that stat... we have drafted 1 QB since Kirk. Nate Sudfeld, 6th round 2016.

Since New England drafted Tom Brady they have drafted

2002 - Rohan Davey - 4th Round
2003 - Kliff Klingsbury - 6th round
2005 - Matt Cassel - 7th round
2008 - Kevin O'Connell - 3rd round

Bruce Allen takes over as GM for Redskins.

2010 - Zac Robinson - 7th round
2011 - Ryan Mallet - 3rd round
2014 - Jimmy Graps - 2nd round
2016 - Jacoby Brissett - 3rd round


Allen has been the 'GM' for 3 QB selections, 2 of which in the same draft... the Patriots have a guy who is in the convo for the best ever and they've drafted 4 in that same period. They've drafted 8 qbs since Brady has been there, 5 of which have come since we took campbell in 2005. This is a philosophical problem we've had for a long time, and its traveled across multiple GMs, so yes a lot of it has to do with Dan... but it's clear the trend did not get changed when Bruce, or even Scot for that matter were calling the shots. In fact, the only person who was reportedly 'in charge' when we did address the position, was Shanny. Not saying Shanny was the right guy, it was a disaster. This is just an example of the lack of attention to the team on the field...


I like what I've seen over the last 4 years too, but the problem is I'm a keyboard GM and we have no influence on the team winning, just the ability talk about liking what we see. The team needs to be smarter than we are, and they need to start doing things that gets wins... not new training camp facilities.
 
Good management and good coaching will turn a franchise around in 2-3 years, and it takes both. We've had neither since Snyder took over. Certainly never good management. We occasionally draft good players, but they just get wasted. Even if the team is trending up, which is debatable, it's at a snails pace. Turn around has to happen much quicker to leverage draft talent.
 
That's a nice point about drafting QBs ST, although it sets up a natural counter argument. One could argue that both teams managed to get a starting caliber QB in that period (Cousins and Garrapolo) but the Pats wasted a bunch of picks before hitting on one.


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That's a nice point about drafting QBs ST, although it sets up a natural counter argument. One could argue that both teams managed to get a starting caliber QB in that period (Cousins and Garrapolo) but the Pats wasted a bunch of picks before hitting on one.


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They were also doing it with their starting qb in place... so the need for a starter is not a focus, but they continued to bring in options. The overall point is less about a starter and more about neglect of the position with the idea that we can get by, when its the most important position... even the team who has possibly the best to ever play, still continued to add.

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Pat's are a nice benchmark but not really a fair comparison. It's not like they go into the draft needing an OL guy and a DL one and a RB and a S and.... You know, like the Skins do. But, NE is willing to take chances in the draft on guys for a position they're pretty well set in. On the other hand, Skins drafted 2 QBs in 2012 which actually worked out pretty well all things considered. So dipping into the well only once since then maybe not the sharpest of moves. Yeah a lot of holes to fill over these last few years but now you got a pretty huge one to fill.
 
I'm pretty convinced Robert Kraft sold his soul to the devil. The odds on the pats current run can only be explained that way.
 
One thing NE is very good at is leveraging picks. It's not unusual to see them trade back for more selections in a draft. Rarely do they seem laser focused on one guy they have to have. A true sign of competent and talented leadership.
 
Once Brady is out of the picture, we'll see how well things go in Cheaterville.

Would you feel this way if he was coaching the Redskins to their 8th Super Bowl in 16 seasons?

My guess is no.
 
They were also doing it with their starting qb in place... so the need for a starter is not a focus, but they continued to bring in options. The overall point is less about a starter and more about neglect of the position with the idea that we can get by, when its the most important position... even the team who has possibly the best to ever play, still continued to add.

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This would probably be one of those situations that needs a more indepth look to understand what's going on.

From the Skins point of view were they drafting for need in order to put a team together where the last link would be the QB either through draft or trade? (If so they failed miserably on that front). Essentially doing what Cleveland are supposedly doing (spinning their wheels going nowhere) and the opposite of what the Colts did (where they just threw Andrew Luck behind a crappy team and crossed their fingers while carnage ensued).

The Pats were lucky enough to have an all star QB and already had a championship caliber squad that just needed ongoing maintenance to keep it ticking over. They could afford to take punts on QB's because the team was solid and what they're really looking for is the replacement for Brady should he retire, get injured or start that inevitable decline. Obviously Brady has continued to produce at a high level far beyond what I suspect most people estimated. Peyton Manning was kind of the benchmark, his last couple of seasons were awful and I think the Pats were waiting for that shoe to drop.

Pure speculation I know. :)
 
This would probably be one of those situations that needs a more indepth look to understand what's going on.

From the Skins point of view were they drafting for need in order to put a team together where the last link would be the QB either through draft or trade? (If so they failed miserably on that front). Essentially doing what Cleveland are supposedly doing (spinning their wheels going nowhere) and the opposite of what the Colts did (where they just threw Andrew Luck behind a crappy team and crossed their fingers while carnage ensued).

The Pats were lucky enough to have an all star QB and already had a championship caliber squad that just needed ongoing maintenance to keep it ticking over. They could afford to take punts on QB's because the team was solid and what they're really looking for is the replacement for Brady should he retire, get injured or start that inevitable decline. Obviously Brady has continued to produce at a high level far beyond what I suspect most people estimated. Peyton Manning was kind of the benchmark, his last couple of seasons were awful and I think the Pats were waiting for that shoe to drop.

Pure speculation I know. :)

You're absolutely correct, my point is that they are still taking shots on QBs even though they have 'their guy' in place. Allen has drafted 1 QB since we picked Kirk... and it was Nate Sudfeld. The Patriots have Brady, and he's showing no signs of slowing, yet since 2011 theyve spent a 3rd rounder on Ryan Mallett, a 2nd rounder on Jimmy Graps, and a 3rd rounder on Jacoby Brissett.

They've known they had their guy, yet they still spent potential starting caliber draft picks in the event that Brady falls off. We've had 'our guy' on 1 year deals for 3 seasons, yet there's been no effort to have an option in the event that he ultimately walks. All the eggs were put in one basket and it was Kirk Cousins... and I worry that the ripple effect is going to set us back 3-5 years. Stability at the QB position sets up the entire team. Free agents, coaching candidates, GM candidates,re-signing players, all of it is easier if you have stability at the QB position... and I'm not even talking a superstar, but it's hard to convince ANYONE to come here, or want to stay here, if they can't look at that position with any sort of confidence.
 
Would you feel this way if he was coaching the Redskins to their 8th Super Bowl in 16 seasons?

My guess is no.

And, you would be wrong.

Now, would I take the accomplishments? Sure. But the circumstances around the history of cheating, combined with an apparent coverup by the NFL, will always taint their legacy. At least to me. They've proved that cheating works. That the price paid is worth it. If others are okay with that, that's fine. But there will always be an asterisk by their name.
 
So when George Allen did it here, that tainted his tenure here?
 
What are you talking about, specifically?

Did he film every team in the NFL, for years, in order to know their plays/signals/audibles?

Not sure what you're talking about.
 
I'm here at OIA aka Orlando airport saw 3 people in skins gear at the bar, said HTTR, let me buy you a drink, discussed cousins briefly everyone agreed, adios, mixed feelings on gruden, and if you're asking SO why you drinking so early, it's what SO does before early flights especially to Indy. Pulled up BGO for em to show it's a real deal fansite, not b.s. trolls, couldn't get em to sign up on the spot but maybe we will get some new members.
 
You're absolutely correct, my point is that they are still taking shots on QBs even though they have 'their guy' in place. Allen has drafted 1 QB since we picked Kirk... and it was Nate Sudfeld. The Patriots have Brady, and he's showing no signs of slowing, yet since 2011 theyve spent a 3rd rounder on Ryan Mallett, a 2nd rounder on Jimmy Graps, and a 3rd rounder on Jacoby Brissett.

They've known they had their guy, yet they still spent potential starting caliber draft picks in the event that Brady falls off. We've had 'our guy' on 1 year deals for 3 seasons, yet there's been no effort to have an option in the event that he ultimately walks. All the eggs were put in one basket and it was Kirk Cousins... and I worry that the ripple effect is going to set us back 3-5 years. Stability at the QB position sets up the entire team. Free agents, coaching candidates, GM candidates,re-signing players, all of it is easier if you have stability at the QB position... and I'm not even talking a superstar, but it's hard to convince ANYONE to come here, or want to stay here, if they can't look at that position with any sort of confidence.

This is why I worry that the Skins are using the "Build it and they will come" approach to the QB position.

The Pats had the liberty of Brady. So knowing he was there (and with Belli being the smartest man in the room) the built a Championship caliber team that they could sustain with clever maintenance, allowing them to take pot shots at the draft lottery for a Brady replacement. The longer Brady went on with his career they more they just turned over their secondary QB for bits to keep the championship caliber of their team ticking over, a la Garrapolo this year.

The Redskins seem to be in the place where they do not have a championship team and putting the parts together will cost money and draft picks. So they've decided QB is a long way down the list of priorities. (although for my money, our O-line is decent enough to protect a young QB while he learns. We're not the Colts or the Browns sending a young QB out to be eaten by lions.) i.e. When we fix the team we'll plug and play a QB. I guess it's a logical process, but as you say, they miss the stability that ripples down the organisation.

It's a bit of a catch 22 I guess. Stability is the best way to build a successful franchise (not the only way, but the sustainable way) but to have stability you have to have the right people in place in the first place, and I fear that's what the Skins lack. Top to bottom we've always had a weak link, most usually in the Front Office, but sometimes and Coach and often at QB.

I was truly hopeful that we could retain Kirk and keep Gruden and push forward with stability to right this ship. They may not be the best in the business, but it felt like they could at least guide us back to respectable, which to some extent they have. But the Kirk situation has been mismanaged to such a degree that it will be the straw that breaks us.

I'm resigned to the fact that Kirk is gone. I'm a little disappointed but I'm not heartbroken at the prospect. At that point it's going to take spectacular coaching by Gru and co and a chunk of luck next year to get us to a point where we can maintain stability. If we go something like 3-13 with Colt at QB then the wheels will fall off the wagon in spectacular style. We'll have no future QB on our roster, we'll be on the coaching carousel once more and be back to being an unattractive destination for Coaches and Free Agents alike.

See, even I can be pessimistic at times. LOL

I'd love to see Kirk sign a reasonable long term deal here. I'd love to see him and Gru have a great 2018 season not wrecked by injuries. I'd love to see us in the playoffs and challenging for the Superbowl and then building on that with some sustained stability... but for me that's looking increasingly like a pipe dream when I fear our future is Gruden coaching Colt to a 3-13 season and at least a partial rebuild coming again before the 2019 season.

Anyway... the upshot of that is that we should take a QB with every draft pick we have. Surely we'd find one gem. :D
 
This is why I worry that the Skins are using the "Build it and they will come" approach to the QB position.

The Pats had the liberty of Brady. So knowing he was there (and with Belli being the smartest man in the room) the built a Championship caliber team that they could sustain with clever maintenance, allowing them to take pot shots at the draft lottery for a Brady replacement. The longer Brady went on with his career they more they just turned over their secondary QB for bits to keep the championship caliber of their team ticking over, a la Garrapolo this year.

The Redskins seem to be in the place where they do not have a championship team and putting the parts together will cost money and draft picks. So they've decided QB is a long way down the list of priorities. (although for my money, our O-line is decent enough to protect a young QB while he learns. We're not the Colts or the Browns sending a young QB out to be eaten by lions.) i.e. When we fix the team we'll plug and play a QB. I guess it's a logical process, but as you say, they miss the stability that ripples down the organisation.

It's a bit of a catch 22 I guess. Stability is the best way to build a successful franchise (not the only way, but the sustainable way) but to have stability you have to have the right people in place in the first place, and I fear that's what the Skins lack. Top to bottom we've always had a weak link, most usually in the Front Office, but sometimes and Coach and often at QB.

I was truly hopeful that we could retain Kirk and keep Gruden and push forward with stability to right this ship. They may not be the best in the business, but it felt like they could at least guide us back to respectable, which to some extent they have. But the Kirk situation has been mismanaged to such a degree that it will be the straw that breaks us.

I'm resigned to the fact that Kirk is gone. I'm a little disappointed but I'm not heartbroken at the prospect. At that point it's going to take spectacular coaching by Gru and co and a chunk of luck next year to get us to a point where we can maintain stability. If we go something like 3-13 with Colt at QB then the wheels will fall off the wagon in spectacular style. We'll have no future QB on our roster, we'll be on the coaching carousel once more and be back to being an unattractive destination for Coaches and Free Agents alike.

See, even I can be pessimistic at times. LOL

I'd love to see Kirk sign a reasonable long term deal here. I'd love to see him and Gru have a great 2018 season not wrecked by injuries. I'd love to see us in the playoffs and challenging for the Superbowl and then building on that with some sustained stability... but for me that's looking increasingly like a pipe dream when I fear our future is Gruden coaching Colt to a 3-13 season and at least a partial rebuild coming again before the 2019 season.

Anyway... the upshot of that is that we should take a QB with every draft pick we have. Surely we'd find one gem. :D

Yes I agree it's a bit of a catch 22, but how many draft picks have we essentially blown on players that are NOT a QB since Allen got here. (I bring it back to him because the original conversation was about the front office, and how Allen can't be to blame for 30 years of ineptitude when he's only been here for less than 10). I know drafting is an art, and it's easy for me to judge sitting here on my keyboard about what was right, and what was wrong.... but I'm trying to look at things that have taken long term that would effect our success... and I keep finding my way back to not having stability at QB. We have had TALENT there, but not stability. It's hard to have faith in the development of the receivers, O-line, coaches, OC, QB coach, anyone on the offensive side of the ball if its a question mark. Look at the perennial losers and the QB's are generally short term players.... Mostly because they aren't any good, but it also doesnt help when you dont develop guys and they go on to be successful.
 
The only concern I have with Colt is his durability.

I think he knows the system as good as the Greedy Lying Bastard. Although he has not played in it, during live action, as much.
If he's the guy in 2018, Gruden will have enough time to tweak things more toward Colt. Hell, it will probably force a more disciplined approach to running the goddamn ball.

I think, at worst, Colt can lead us to a non-playoff season. Just as the Greedy Lying Bastard has done the last 2 yrs.
He also can lead us back to the playoffs. Provided improvements to the overall team continue.
For a fraction of the cost to keep the Greedy Lying Bastard. Who also needs a better team around him to succeed.
 
Actually the Patriots under Bellichek started taking ‘pot shots' at qb before Brady by drafting Brady. Bledsoe's injury opened the door for him.
 
Pat's are a nice benchmark but not really a fair comparison. It's not like they go into the draft needing an OL guy and a DL one and a RB and a S and.... You know, like the Skins do. But, NE is willing to take chances in the draft on guys for a position they're pretty well set in. On the other hand, Skins drafted 2 QBs in 2012 which actually worked out pretty well all things considered. So dipping into the well only once since then maybe not the sharpest of moves. Yeah a lot of holes to fill over these last few years but now you got a pretty huge one to fill.

Actually John, I think that's dead wrong. The Patriots NEVER have great players across the board. They rarely are the most talented roster (even in their own division). They just win despite not having the best talent. In every other regard they're just like every other NFL team. It's the QB and the coaching that elevates all of those players. I think that's your Skins fan bias creeping in (the belief that every other NFL team is in better shape than the Redskins are by default).
 

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