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Random Commanders Thoughts

Also quite possible that, draft board already set that they didn't feel the timing was right to add a GM (or there was no one available they thought was a good fit). I tend to believe that Allen doesn't think he needs any help (regardless of what he stated at the time of the McLovin hire). But it's not entirely impossible they look to add a football GM in the offseason. The elevation of Doug Williams further muddies the waters though. So I'm not holding my breath.
 
That's a red herring in my opinion. Cousins will be the hottest QB free agent this offseason during which multiple teams need a franchise QB desperately. There will be a number of teams willing to 'overpay' for him (if you choose to characterize market value as 'overpaying'). Very low risk.

Bottom line - you have to either sign Kirk to a LTD or figure out the best way to get something for him. A failure to do either should be absolute grounds for terminating our 'GM'.
We have no leverage to get anything for him. And, if we don't get something for him, it'll match what we got out of him, for the money he's made.

We've already made him a multi-millionaire, and got shit to show for it. Pouring more money on top of it won't change that.

This story needs to end.
 
And he'd be close enough to torture the franchise and fan base with the yearly reminder he's on a perennial playoff team while we're stuck at .450 ball.

If signing #8 here meant we'd get Mike Tomlin, Antonio Brown, and Leveon Bell it'd be a no brainer. Crook would be GOING to a winner. He would not be what MAKES them a winner.
I know you understand that.

At least I hope you do. Even if you won't say it.
 
What two 1st rounders?

Under the non-exclusive tag, Kirk can negotiate with other teams however Washington has the opportunity to match any offer. If the Skins don't Cousins goes to the other team & Washington gets 2 first round picks. Under a transition tag; Skins do not receive compensation if Cousins signs elsewhere and Kirk is still free to negotiate with other teams although Washington can match that offer and Cousins stays under those terms..

Franchise Tag explanation: http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/231112/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-nfls-2017-franchise-tag

I expect some other team would make an offer to Kirk under the non-exclusive tag leaving the choice up to the Redskins to match or wave buh-bye.
 
If signing [URL=https://www.bgobsession.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=8]#8 [/URL] here meant we'd get Mike Tomlin, Antonio Brown, and Leveon Bell it'd be a no brainer. Crook would be GOING to a winner. He would not be what MAKES them a winner.
I know you understand that.

At least I hope you do. Even if you won't say it.

No no no.

Using your logic about #8 all season long...Kirk wouldn't be able to get them there because he can't win when it matters most. You've preached that all season brother, don't start crawfishin' now.......
 
No no no.

Using your logic about #8 all season long...Kirk wouldn't be able to get them there because he can't win when it matters most. You've preached that all season brother, don't start crawfishin' now.......
Cute. Using your logic, New England should trade us Tom Brady, two 1st rnd picks, and pay for our new stadium to acquire the services of the legend that is, StatBoy.

No crawfishing.

1. Pittsburgh, with a quality head coach, and arguably the best WR and RB in the league, could win WITH your hero. But not BECAUSE of him.
He would be a big step down from Rapistburger.

2. Crook, is 0-ever in big games.
 
Under the non-exclusive tag, Kirk can negotiate with other teams however Washington has the opportunity to match any offer. If the Skins don't Cousins goes to the other team & Washington gets 2 first round picks. Under a transition tag; Skins do not receive compensation if Cousins signs elsewhere and Kirk is still free to negotiate with other teams although Washington can match that offer and Cousins stays under those terms..

Franchise Tag explanation: http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/231112/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-nfls-2017-franchise-tag

I expect some other team would make an offer to Kirk under the non-exclusive tag leaving the choice up to the Redskins to match or wave buh-bye.
Yeah, I know the rules. Color me skeptical that we'll get two 1st rounders from anyone. Hell, if we get a 3rd rd supplemental pick we'll be lucky. Any more than that and Allen should be GM of the year.
The $35mil tag will start the negotiations too high for anyone. But we'll be the ones stuck with it. I believe the agent would tell him to take it. And he's already said he does whatever his agent tells him to.
 
Yeah, I know the rules. Color me skeptical that we'll get two 1st rounders from anyone. Hell, if we get a 3rd rd supplemental pick we'll be lucky. Any more than that and Allen should be GM of the year.
The $35mil tag will start the negotiations too high for anyone. But we'll be the ones stuck with it. I believe the agent would tell him to take it. And he's already said he does whatever his agent tells him to.

Oh, God.
 
We have no leverage to get anything for him. And, if we don't get something for him, it'll match what we got out of him, for the money he's made.

We've already made him a multi-millionaire, and got shit to show for it. Pouring more money on top of it won't change that.

This story needs to end.

We do have some leverage. We can force a team to give us picks or we get to keep him for another year. I don't know if anyone will pony up the picks, but it's not an insane possibility. The class warfare BS needs to stop too :) Yeah, we made him a multi-millionaire. Just like every team in the NFL has made their starters multi-millionaires. It's called 'market value' Ax. I don't understand the vitriole. It's legitimate to ask if we can build a team around him depending on what the cost to sign him would be. But equating high salary with expectations of guaranteed success isn't logical. 53 men and a bunch of coaches determine success. And this year, it's been more like 100 men if you count all the scrubs we've had to start.
 
Reason 1,345 the active roster and even the team roster need to be expanded.
 
Sometimes I wonder if people have completely lost view of the fact that NFL players are also humans. They hold them to some sort of unspoke agreement, and are willing to throw them away when convenient. These are people and they're providing a service for their compensation. Who are we to tell them that the compensation offered is too much? The dude earned his ability to get paid, whether we agree with his $$ figure or not... the money is going to be there.

I personally want him here, but paying him $34 mil next year on another franchise tag is going to leave me wondering what kind of negative impact that has on the rest of the team. I worry that placing that much money in 1 piece of the puzzle is dangerous, but the idea of going back to Rex Grossman style QB play is also something I don't want. Kirk is a good QB, and I honestly think he's been handcuffed in this offense. That at times he's succeeded IN SPITE of the playcall, not because of it. It's a good offense for him and he can clearly execute it at times, but other times he looks clueless. These are my personal opinions, but that does not mean that SOMEONE is going to be willing to pay it, and I can't begrudge Kirk for 1 second if he takes it.

Why should he for 1 SECOND have a shred of loyalty to this franchise? The same franchise that took him 3 rounds after choosing the 'franchise.' The same franchise that benched him before even giving him a chance to compete for a job. The same franchise that benched him a 2nd time for the 'franchise.' The same franchise that benched him for Colt McCoy. The same franchise that balked at his offer to sign long term. The same franchise that 'needs 5 more games' to evaluate a record setting, pro bowl QB. No... as a HUMAN, I'd look at Kirk and think he was crazy if he agreed to sign here.... NFL teams regularly throw guys aside when they think they aren't 'valuable'... They did it to Kirk more than once already.


Ask yourself, would you show the same loyalty to an employer that you ask Kirk to give? If you were working a job who had treated you that way, and a different company decides that they're willing to pay you more to come work for them... can you honestly say you wouldn't take it?


I want Kirk here. I think he's a very good QB and I think he is a piece of the puzzle that we can win with. We would need more pieces, but I feel like he's a good one to have. To what price? That's not up to me, thats up to the highest bidder... and I don't blame Kirk for trying to figure out the best balance between Payroll and possible success that works for him.
 
We do have some leverage. We can force a team to give us picks or we get to keep him for another year. I don't know if anyone will pony up the picks, but it's not an insane possibility.
It's a $35mil gamble. One I would not take.

The class warfare BS needs to stop too :) Yeah, we made him a multi-millionaire. Just like every team in the NFL has made their starters multi-millionaires. It's called 'market value' Ax

I don't understand the vitriole.
.
The vitriol comes, in part, from people having the need to repeat over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, that there's a thing called"market value". Like it's some friggin magic wand that ends the conversation.
I get it.
I know it.
I know what it means.
And I'm sick of hearing it.
I know there is a "market value". But there's nothing in the rulebook that says I have to like it. Or that I can't voice my disgust of it.

It's legitimate to ask if we can build a team around him depending on what the cost to sign him would be. But equating high salary with expectations of guaranteed success isn't logical. 53 men and a bunch of coaches determine success. And this year, it's been more like 100 men if you count all the scrubs we've had to start.
All fine and good. But I'm a result oriented kind of guy. When I pay for filet mignon, I expect filet mignon.
#8 is certainly not the only guy, or coach, that has failed to earn their paycheck.
That's just my opinion. I believe this the place to voice it.
 
Look - it's a messageboard dude. Likely very few arguments that haven't been made, defended, attacked, and made again. There probably aren't may dead horses wanting for another beating :) :kungfu: :deadhorse:

And no one has suggested you can't 'voice your disgust over it' - and I'll continue to argue with you that blowing it up is the absolute worst thing we could do right now, whether we're talking about the QB position or the coaches.
 
Nice post. Just a couple quick thoughts...

On the human thing, we also forget that Kirk may have reasons beyond some imaginary beef with the front office or hating the organization to want to make a change. Could be location. Could be what his wife or family wants. Could be almost anything. It's not always 100% about the football or the team.

I personally want him here, but paying him $34 mil next year on another franchise tag is going to leave me wondering what kind of negative impact that has on the rest of the team. I worry that placing that much money in 1 piece of the puzzle is dangerous, but the idea of going back to Rex Grossman style QB play is also something I don't want.

If they decide to tag him again, my question is - to what end? Not a big fan of *renting* a franchise QB. But if they were to draft a young guy, and tag Kirk with the intent of either having the youngster learn by watching a pro, I'd be okay with that. If the next great Redskins QB can't be found in the 2018 draft (whether it's because we aren't in love with anyone, or don't expect that guy to be there when we pick), maybe giving Kirk one more year makes sense. Or if we really believe that with another year to work on a big LTD, we can make it happen, maybe it makes sense. But to rent him at an exorbitant price, just to have him for another year, in and of itself doesn't make sense.

Why should he for 1 SECOND have a shred of loyalty to this franchise? The same franchise that took him 3 rounds after choosing the 'franchise.' The same franchise that benched him before even giving him a chance to compete for a job. The same franchise that benched him a 2nd time for the 'franchise.' The same franchise that benched him for Colt McCoy. The same franchise that balked at his offer to sign long term. The same franchise that 'needs 5 more games' to evaluate a record setting, pro bowl QB.

I'll take issue with some of this. No NFL club rated Cousins a first rounder, a franchise QB prospect brother. Not one that I'm aware of. The idea that he's holding a grudge because the Skins took him much later just doesn't make sense to me. Every other NFL team passed on him for other guys, repeatedly, before the Skins drafted him. And the reason he should be (and I believe is genuinely) grateful to the Skins is that they ultimately made him the guy - and made him rich. I don't think that escapes his notice. There may be reasons he holds a grudge (assuming he does) - maybe he loved Scot McCloughan, maybe he hates Allen, maybe he loved the Shanahans and thought they were mistreated, maybe he's never been able to get over the love and adoration showered upon an inferior player in Griffin. On the '5 more games to evaluate him' aspect, I think that's a Twitter fiction - I doubt anyone high up in the Front Office said that - or if they did, meant it in the context it was plastered all over the internet with. I guess what I'm saying in an incredibly long-winded way is that I'm not 100% sure that Kirk does hold a grudge against this team. We're about to find out I suppose - but even if he signs a LTD with one of the many teams that will pursue him, not sure that represents proof he hated being in DC?

Ask yourself, would you show the same loyalty to an employer that you ask Kirk to give? If you were working a job who had treated you that way, and a different company decides that they're willing to pay you more to come work for them... can you honestly say you wouldn't take it?

Yeah - this is exactly right. We want to believe that, as fans, the players have the same passionate allegiance to the team. But they don't, and to be fair, how can we expect them to? I don't begrudge Kirk making whatever decision he feels is right for him and his family. This is his one and only crack at an NFL career and he's got to do what feels right for him, whether we as fans like it or not.
 
And no one has suggested you can't 'voice your disgust over it' -
Maybe not. But I must have been told 968 times that there's a market value. Like I'm too effing stupid to know there is one. Or I didn't hear it the first 967 times. Sorry, but that grates my ass a little. But, I'm a big boy. I can hack it. I can't respond how I'd like to sometimes, but I can play by the rules. It's all good.

and I'll continue to argue with you that blowing it up is the absolute worst thing we could do right now, whether we're talking about the QB position or the coaches.
No one has argued continuity/stability over the years around here more than me. Keeping the status quo another year isn't the worst idea. But I've lost faith in Gruden. And I'm sick to death of the whole QB deal. My expectations will remain the same whether they're here, or not.
 
Nice post. Just a couple quick thoughts...

On the human thing, we also forget that Kirk may have reasons beyond some imaginary beef with the front office or hating the organization to want to make a change. Could be location. Could be what his wife or family wants. Could be almost anything. It's not always 100% about the football or the team.

Agree 100%. My 'rant' was more based on this common notion I keep hearing (well beyond this board) that Kirk is chasing a payday. I'm personally in the camp that the money is not why he wants to leave, and that the other factors you mention are. This is why my money is solidly on him signing with Jax as soon as it's possible. His wife is from Georgia, the team is a QB away from being a player in the AFC, the team is built the 'right' way, and they're young. I didn't even mention the fact that the weather is better or the tax ramifications.

If they decide to tag him again, my question is - to what end? Not a big fan of *renting* a franchise QB. But if they were to draft a young guy, and tag Kirk with the intent of either having the youngster learn by watching a pro, I'd be okay with that. If the next great Redskins QB can't be found in the 2018 draft (whether it's because we aren't in love with anyone, or don't expect that guy to be there when we pick), maybe giving Kirk one more year makes sense. Or if we really believe that with another year to work on a big LTD, we can make it happen, maybe it makes sense. But to rent him at an exorbitant price, just to have him for another year, in and of itself doesn't make sense.

I don't want to tag him if he's destined to leave. Its a hard conversation to have, but it needs to happen. Ask him and his agent the honest question. If there is no reason to believe he would sign... let him go. The additional year does nothing other than set back the rebuilding process 9 months. I want him here but the team is not the only dancer in this tango... Kirk has to want to sign here too. If he doesn't want to, stop holding him hostage and use that $34 mil to pay Brown, and get some other pieces. Pick up a true 'rental' qb if there is not long term answer out there, but renting a QB for $34 mil is insane to me.

I'll take issue with some of this. No NFL club rated Cousins a first rounder, a franchise QB prospect brother. Not one that I'm aware of. The idea that he's holding a grudge because the Skins took him much later just doesn't make sense to me. Every other NFL team passed on him for other guys, repeatedly, before the Skins drafted him. And the reason he should be (and I believe is genuinely) grateful to the Skins is that they ultimately made him the guy - and made him rich. I don't think that escapes his notice. There may be reasons he holds a grudge (assuming he does) - maybe he loved Scot McCloughan, maybe he hates Allen, maybe he loved the Shanahans and thought they were mistreated, maybe he's never been able to get over the love and adoration showered upon an inferior player in Griffin. On the '5 more games to evaluate him' aspect, I think that's a Twitter fiction - I doubt anyone high up in the Front Office said that - or if they did, meant it in the context it was plastered all over the internet with. I guess what I'm saying in an incredibly long-winded way is that I'm not 100% sure that Kirk does hold a grudge against this team. We're about to find out I suppose - but even if he signs a LTD with one of the many teams that will pursue him, not sure that represents proof he hated being in DC?

My point was more to why should he take some sort of a hometown discount when the team has shown very little loyalty or confidence the other direction. Why should he be loyal when he's always been no. 2 in the teams eyes? Not that being taken behing RG3 was the sole reason, but it's just another notch in the bedpost of how the team kept him in the shadows. He knows this is a business.. I don't think he's thinking for one second "let me take it to the man." I was throwing out the rhetorical question of WHY should Kirk even entertain a contract here when he can get more money and be in a better position elsewhere? Because we're Redskins fans so our team is the place to be? I'm sorry, this team has not earned the right to expect a hometown discount, or be attractive for players to even WANT to be here.. FOR WHAT? For mediocre teams and constant fluctuation? To have protesters outside the stadium? To wonder on a year to year basis who is going to be running the show? Come on, why would Kirk want to stay?! The ONLY thing that I can come up with is the fact that he knows the system, he's comfortable in the facilities and locker room, and he's approaching the point where he's going to have to think about where he wants to finish his career. This is a MAJOR decision for him. He's going to be 30 when he signs his next deal, whether its a franchise tag or an LTD. He's not 'old' in playing time, but he's also not at the end of his rookie deal, with basically his whole career ahead of him.


Yeah - this is exactly right. We want to believe that, as fans, the players have the same passionate allegiance to the team. But they don't, and to be fair, how can we expect them to? I don't begrudge Kirk making whatever decision he feels is right for him and his family. This is his one and only crack at an NFL career and he's got to do what feels right for him, whether we as fans like it or not.

I wrapped this in with the response above. I agree. I'm in the camp that Kirk is gone and it's not going to be the decision of the front office for that to happen, that he's the one who ultimately is going to make that choice, it's going to be Kirk deciding to play somewhere else.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFL</a> league average for scoring is 23 points per game. Since being named the starter, <a href="https://twitter.com/KirkCousins8?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KirkCousins8</a> is 17-4 when his defense holds the other team to 23 points or below. So, if the defense is even AVERAGE, Kirk has a winning % of .809. <a href="https://twitter.com/granthpaulsen?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@granthpaulsen</a></p>— Kyle Schonewill (@KyleSchonewill) <a href="https://twitter.com/KyleSchonewill/status/944285009208332289?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 22, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">His 4 losses in that case? Game 1 as full time starter against Miami in 2015. Cowboys on Monday night 2015 - Kirk took lead late in fourth. Lions 2016 where Kirk took lead with 50 seconds left on a nearly flawless game. Giants 2016. None this year.</p>— Kyle Schonewill (@KyleSchonewill) <a href="https://twitter.com/KyleSchonewill/status/944285584092225542?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 22, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Reason 1,345 the active roster and even the team roster need to be expanded.

I've never understood why we have inactive players each week, but they are getting their game check. Makes no sense.
 

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