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Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

McD5 said:
Yeah, I think people are just frustrated and looking for someone to blame.

There's no question that his offense was very good in Cincy, and that it works. No one (except maybe Goal) questions that.

Even here, WRs continue to be open.
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Sigh. I had a whole angry reply typed out, and I just realized it isn't worth it. Gruden sucks, he'll be gone by this time next year. As will Robert. As will Kirk.

We will get to start over. Again.

Maybe BB can start a Head Coaching scouting thread in a few weeks. We're going to need it.
 
tr1 said:
You're the guy who said you have to have a franchise qb for an offense to work. These two guys may be franchise qbs, but McNabb ain't going to the HOF and were it not for a couple of lucky breaks, neither would Eli.
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Never said that.

Never said anything about the HOF either.

You sure you were responding to me?

What we're looking for out of Gruden's team is improvement and consistency. What we're seeing is inconsistency and little improvement.
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Agree on the first part.

On the second, we're three weeks in. Two of those weeks saw unquestioned improvement over last year. and the third was a cluster****. I know that's enough for some to close the book on the season, coach, QB's, etc., but I'm going to watch what happens the rest of the way before pronouncing the patient dead.
 
Om said:
Okay ... and the defenses in those three post-season games gave up 27, 19 and 31. Did they do what they had to do to win?

Hey, I'd like to get an NFL expert's inside opinion of why Gruden and Dalton failed in the three playoff games. Maybe there's good film-breakdowns out there we could look at. What if they showed that guys were open in key situations, and Dalton simply missed them? Not saying that's the case, but certainly I'm going to allow for the possibility that the improvement curve I saw in Cincy for an offense with a very young Andy Dalton at QB wasn't a fluke. Particularly given what I THINK I'm seeing here in DC---an offense that seems to get people open, and is begging for competent QB play to take advantage.

I have a bad feeling right now, based on Kirk's play last week, Robert's well-chronicled struggles and Colt's physical limitations, that we're simply not going to get that chance in 2015. And that if that ends up being the case, there won't be a 2016 for Gruden. Not given the history of this franchise over the past 20 years.
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I think maybe "coaching" is too all-encompassing. I'm willing to acknowledge that Gruden's scheme seems to have a few positive attributes. However, his leadership and talent evaluation leave much to be desired.

As we all know so well, it's what makes Norv, Norv.
 
How many 'systems' are there? We've seen pistol formation read option with zone run, some west coast variations to working on heavy smash mouth run based short pass with occasional deep threat. All with roll outs, play action, pocket plays available to the QB's, how about a wishbone with MoJo and DY in the mix or whatever Chip is doing?

Gruden's 'Packers system' may not be all that but don't claim that some adaptation has not been made to work to the skills of our fragile QB who aspires to be Rodgers.

All have pretty much acknowledged that Griff was way behind in development of NFL QB skills coming out, he still needs work and didn't get there in time for the season. Decisions have to be made for the entire team going forward and we need to know what direction to go.

We have pretty good RBs, pretty good WRs, a pretty good TE, the O line is coming together, all seem to be buying into what Gruden and staff have to offer.

Maybe Ax is right, we're just getting the team into midseason form, working out the kinks and getting the full gel of O line before allowing Griff to come in to learn how it all works. Tying our race horse to a self propelled cart. ;)

Om makes a point, strong QB play associated with the Super Smart Coaches, Gibbs came in having a 32 year old JoeyT in his eighth season, a decent FO already in place and a competent load of players to work with when he started. Once Joe got LT'd he started fiddling with the QB's like they were fully parts of his system and allowed them to grow into same. He had success, one can only imagine if he actually had an elite QB at his disposal where our 'legacy' would be. Yep, Gibbs initially did adapt his 'scheme' to that heavy run thing (very innovative) but was it because his offense sucked right out of the box or was it to protect his defense who gave up more points than the O could score?

What did Gruden have in place when he came in?
 
Ax said:
Nothing personal.

I'm just not willing to credit the Bengals regular season wins, and offensive success, solely, to Jay Gruden. As was the assertion made by McD. Seemingly supported by you.

Mike already pointed out the defensive contribution. And the offense's futility in the playoffs. When it matters most.
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Cool.

I don't seem to be doing a very good job of explaining why I even opened this door, but let me try again. I saw the offensive trend in Cincy in Gruden's years, given the young non-descript QB in particular, as intriguing. That, coupled with the available film breakdowns I've seen of what appear to be multiple open receivers simply not getting the ball on time, has me thinking the man might actually have a scheme that will work if ever given a real trigger man to run it.

I'm HOPEFUL that Kirk Cousins can at least approach the level he played at in the Rams game often enough, over the course of 2015, to let Scot M (not to mention US) see what we might have in the man.

Hey, maybe Henry had it right---maybe Jay Gruden will turn out to be nothing more than an OC in the NFL a la Norval. I'd just like a chance to see his offense run by a QB we know is making the plays that are there to be there before we run the man out of town.
 
Om said:
Cool.

I don't seem to be doing a very good job of explaining why I even opened this door, but let me try again. I saw the offensive trend in Cincy in Gruden's years, given the young non-descript QB in particular, as intriguing. That, coupled with the available film breakdowns I've seen of what appear to be multiple open receivers simply not getting the ball on time, has me thinking the man might actually have a scheme that will work if ever given a real trigger man to run it.

I'm HOPEFUL that Kirk Cousins can at least approach the level he played at in the Rams game often enough, over the course of 2015, to let Scot M (not to mention US) see what we might have in the man.

Hey, maybe Henry had it right---maybe Jay Gruden will turn out to be nothing more than an OC in the NFL a la Norval. I'd just like a chance to see his offense run by a QB we know is making the plays that are there to be there before we run the man out of town.
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The thing is, every system in the game works, with the right personnel. I'm sure whatever tree Jay hangs his birdhouse on will too. But again, the original inference was that it was Jay alone who made it work in Cincy.

I hope to Christ he is our WINNING head coach for the next 20yrs.
 
Ax said:
And it was all because of Jay Gruden.

Got it.
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You can't simultaneously and with a straight face argue that it's a) Jay Gruden's (as HC) sole fault that our offense and QB play have not been stellar, while b) arguing that he had very little to do (as OC!) Cincy's very efficient offense while he was there. He crafted a pretty impressive offense with frigging Andy Dalton under center.

I'm not impressed with what he's done to date as a HC, but the idea he's overrated or incompetent in terms of offensive knowledge and how to put an effective one on the field flies in the face of facts.


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Boone said:
You can't simultaneously and with a straight face argue that it's a) Jay Gruden's (as HC) sole fault that our offense and QB play have not been stellar, while b) arguing that he had very little to do (as OC!) Cincy's very efficient offense while he was there. He crafted a pretty impressive offense with frigging Andy Dalton under center.
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I don't believe I've done either. As a head coach, you ultimately bare the responsibility for the play of your team. Right or wrong. That's the way it is. It's his vision, being taught by him, and his staff. Of course, we all know you have to have players to make it work.

And I didn't say he had "little to do" with Cincy's success. But I refuse to give him all the credit, by himself.

I'm not impressed with what he's done to date as a HC, but the idea he's overrated or incompetent in terms of offensive knowledge and how to put an effective one on the field flies in the face of facts.
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I would only say that, to date, those facts are in Cincy. Not here.

But I AM ever hopeful.
 
Oy.

Maybe Gruden is an offensive genius. All I know is that so is Norv Turner. That doesn't make him a good head coach.

So far, the team under Gruden plays like A Bunch Of Guys most of the time, with a few inspired games sprinkled in to give everyone hope.

The excuses for the guy sound exactly the same too. Don't have the personnel. The plays are there the players just aren't executing. If not for this drop, or that mistake, things would have been different ... We even have a Frerotte/Shuler thing going. It's like living in a time warp. :)

And I'm fine giving Gruden the rest of the season. Maybe he'll find his footing and turn this thing around. Stranger things have happened.

But when I look at guys like Dungy, Reid and Harbaugh, who took over abysmal programs and turned them around practically overnight, and then I look at this team and see the same. stupid. crap. we've been dealing with for decades ... I'm not inspired by the leadership.
 
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I can't figure out what about your post Henry inspired you to put this at the end of it: :)

Everything you type was true, and I felt more like this::behead2:
 
Goaldeje said:
I can't figure out what about your post Henry inspired you to put this at the end of it: :)

Everything you type was true, and I felt more like this::behead2:
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I smile a lot. It keeps me sane. :)

:) :D
 
That comes from working for yourself. It's not possible otherwise.


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tr1 said:
This sounds reasonable, but that option is a big thing. Maybe the FO thinks that if Gruden wins, nobody is going to give a shit about the option or RG3. I hope they thought through the alternative.
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The beauty of it all is, we really haven't a clue what goes on behind the scenes, and all we can do is speculate, and hope till the cows come home.
 
Even shan got it to happen in 2012.
 
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